RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA

RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (Full Version)

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Justme696 -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 12:00:23 AM)
quote: If we can protect the new ones by maybe getting them to think through these posts, or at least some of them, then we have done the service that CM extends to the kinksters out there. well said

lally3 -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 12:51:04 AM)
one of the really great things about boards like these, most especially this one because its so well known and accessible, is that this advice is consistently drummed home for the newbies floating through. i started out with aol at a time when they had a D/s discussion board on the 'groups list', there was an experienced and wonderful woman called wickdvixen on there (domme), whose wisdom came through time and again. it was a pretty purile board, full of newbies and she was a highly intelligent woman, but she stayed there, i think, to make sure we applied common sense over again. it is in the spirit of human kind, i like to think, that we help and help to protect each other and long may it continue.

eyesopened -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 2:38:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DDraigeuraid While to those of us with a bit of experience under our belts, SSC, RACK, "common sense" become mundane topics, not everyone has that experience. There are 18 year olds who are horny joining every day. It is up to those of us in the community to teach the young, even if they think they know it all already. Yes, some of them will continue to do stupid things. Hell, I've done stupid things when I was thinking with the wrong head. There is no cure for stupid except learning. We have to keep up the dialoge, on the off chance that a newbe wanders in. If we can protect the new ones by maybe getting them to think through these posts, or at least some of them, then we have done the service that CM extends to the kinksters out there. Dragon Beautifully said. To the OP: We as a society should not have to warn people that hot coffee could be hot or that it's a really bad idea to dry your hair in the bathtub or that one should not apply deoderant to ones eyes. Consider SSC and RACK the warning labels of wiitwd. Granted, warning lables are more designed to avoid lawsuits but the plaintif in such lawsuits begins with "Well, I never thought......." and it is for that reason the repetition of what you assume to be obvious is made. Sometimes, people don't think. Even experienced, level-headed, sane people do not think. If the repetition of safety and common-sense helps someone to think, then how is that a bad thing?

HerLord -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 4:25:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DDraigeuraid It is up to those of us in the community to teach the young, even if they think they know it all already. Why? Says who? Who died and left us the protectors of the innocent and not-so-smart? I never signed up for that, and I don't remember receiving that application in the mail. I'm all for sharing of knowledge. I do it often, and will answer a safety/communication question if that is the answer pertinent to the question. It is not my responsibility, however, to protect people from their own stupidity. As for it being "pertinent" to the post, well, if it's pertinent, of course it fits. If a newbie posts a thread asking for advice on safety, methods, or communication, by all means, offer contributory information pertaining to methods of safety, ways to better communicate, and/or any experiences that may be relevant to a specific scenario. The continuous offering of RACK/SSC in EVERY SINGLE thread is irrelevant to specific scenarios. As an example, if an experienced poster was seeking advice on particular types of chains to use, and asks specific questions, where in there do they need to hear about "safety, safety, safety?" They don't. They didn't ask about safety, they asked about chains. One should not assume they are too stupid to take safety into their own hands. Another example would be the sub who is trying to find exactly the right words to convey a desire to their Dom(me). Obviously, they know open communication is important...that's why they asked. Yet still, the answer is always the fucking communication mantra, without taking the time and effort to actually answer the questions asked.

eyesopened -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 5:18:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HerLord quote: ORIGINAL: DDraigeuraid It is up to those of us in the community to teach the young, even if they think they know it all already. Why? Says who? Who died and left us the protectors of the innocent and not-so-smart? I never signed up for that, and I don't remember receiving that application in the mail. I'm all for sharing of knowledge. I do it often, and will answer a safety/communication question if that is the answer pertinent to the question. It is not my responsibility, however, to protect people from their own stupidity. As for it being "pertinent" to the post, well, if it's pertinent, of course it fits. If a newbie posts a thread asking for advice on safety, methods, or communication, by all means, offer contributory information pertaining to methods of safety, ways to better communicate, and/or any experiences that may be relevant to a specific scenario. The continuous offering of RACK/SSC in EVERY SINGLE thread is irrelevant to specific scenarios. As an example, if an experienced poster was seeking advice on particular types of chains to use, and asks specific questions, where in there do they need to hear about "safety, safety, safety?" They don't. They didn't ask about safety, they asked about chains. One should not assume they are too stupid to take safety into their own hands. Another example would be the sub who is trying to find exactly the right words to convey a desire to their Dom(me). Obviously, they know open communication is important...that's why they asked. Yet still, the answer is always the fucking communication mantra, without taking the time and effort to actually answer the questions asked. The reality is...it's a free site, a public message board and not everything is going to be to everyone's liking. i would love for people to stop posting the same No Limits, Fat Submissives, Tributes to Mistresses, Can't Find Anyone posts that are repeated each and every week. Guess what? i can choose not to read those threads. i can choose to ignore the constant snarky remarks, the ever-present thread hijacks or i can choose to click the handy X at the upper right hand corner of my screen. What i can not choose is how other people are going to write, which topics they will post or how they will respond. When something is outside of my control i choose not to worry about it. In other words, no one can piss in my Cheerios unless i let them.

TysGalilah -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 5:25:54 AM)
{poster was seeking advice on particular types of chains to use, and asks specific questions, where in there do they need to hear about "safety, safety, safety?" They don't. They didn't ask about safety, they asked about chains. One should not assume they are too stupid to take safety into their own hands} There is a difference between being stupid and being ignorant about something. And I think we have all been in a phase of ignorance about many things "prior to" ... for example I am extremely curious about TensUnits used in WIIWD.. I am familiar with a TensUnit ( I have PT experience in my profession ) but NOT as it applies to using it sexually or in play. So, using your own example> I might post on here the question: " What are your experiences with a Tens and does it really feel that extreme and great?" Some might read that and think > what a silly question, IGNORE. some will take the time to tell me their personal experiences, like and dislikes. some will offer words of caution and tell me the safety guidelines...where not to use it on the body, what will happen if we do...and how NOT to FRY MY BRAINS...or implode my vagina! Or arc back and sizzle Tysons testes..???? Some I might have already thought about ( having common sense and certain prior understanding) but some of the safety tidbits might not have even occured to me. I would appreciate it all.. and no I didn't ASK for the safety guidelines, not because I was stupid..or ignorant but because I'm thinking about how HOT the idea makes me... But that doesn't mean that post wasn't as important or imperative as the ones who talked about how hard the orgazm was that they had. I'm not an ignorant person. Yet, there are somethings I have no experience with and some of y'all have ...so I think its kewl that everyone be allowed to speak up and talk about varying views and exp, ideas and ways to look at things, including the things that are obvious to some and not so obvious to others. Take what you can use, and leave the rest. its easy..and it will save your brain from exploding, HL.

InkedMaster -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 5:34:45 AM)
Where would we be if everyone had "common sense"?...no lawsuits for spilling hot fucking coffee in your lap at a drive-thru...no playing russian roulette with a semi-auto...shudder the thought! I need my entertainment value outta life God Dammit !!!

robertolapiedra -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 8:19:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist /flame on Hardcore BDSM is where it started and it has slowly become unfashionable in the fluffy SM (stand & model) politically correct SSC crowds. I understand that BDSM has D/s in the middle of it but that is where it belongs, in the middle, not on top of a soapbox proclaiming we need a SSC set of etiquette rules. BDSM did just fine back when kinky vanilla attended swingers parties instead spouting SSC in our dungeons and at newcommers to our community. /flame off Hello ResidentSadist. DS in the middle? I have always wondered who the hell put that in the middle anyway. In my opinion there is no DS in BDSM. That is why SSC got so ''vanillised'' and became ''preventive'' to the point of killing edge play (the recent ''politically correct'' SSC is not what SSC was about originally, it included RACK type consent depending on the experience of players). For me, Bondage Discipline Sadism and Masochism is a play thingie. A sexual play thingie. DS is a power echange (or what ever you want to call it) that could be done without sex even (if you read some of the posters). Hell, you have some sites accepting traditional marriage as a BDSM subgroup! In my case, I have a DS 24/7 LTR of 7 years +. My wife thinks she is a sex slave but has a normal traditional view in day to day things. In my opinion this does not qualify for the BDSM label. The fact that we have a big Discipline component in the dynamic is what qualifies us. That's us, second letter from the left. SSC used to be for ''in the beginning get to know you'' phase of play, what you usually do before ''racking up'' to edgier fun (RACK). Now? All it has becomed is some sort of truer than thou liberal-conservative pseudo-political policies (join the edgy party! join the ultra safe party!) People will do what the hell they want anyway. SSC existed before someone coined the catchy anacronym and if ''corrected'' and ''recoined'' by some ''experts'' for greater descriptive accuracy, it still does not change the basic common sense goal of not hurting non consenting inexperienced people who don't have a clue about what they are getting into. It is not about people that don't know shit and decide with SSC RACK principles (internet learned) to be ''preventive'' and not get in over their heads with ''strange'' or ''exotic'' kink. How can a newbie do risk assessment if all he/she knows comes from general popular sources? You want to do an extreme sport based on what you learned on the net? Fine, but you better find someone who will take care of the safety issues for you. Yep, common sense again! You can call it what you want. My 2 cents. RL. Edit: bad punctuation

DesFIP -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 9:31:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HerLord I'm all for sharing of knowledge. I do it often, and will answer a safety/communication question if that is the answer pertinent to the question. It is not my responsibility, however, to protect people from their own stupidity. As for it being "pertinent" to the post, well, if it's pertinent, of course it fits. If a newbie posts a thread asking for advice on safety, methods, or communication, by all means, offer contributory information pertaining to methods of safety, ways to better communicate, and/or any experiences that may be relevant to a specific scenario. The continuous offering of RACK/SSC in EVERY SINGLE thread is irrelevant to specific scenarios. As I've already shared, when we first discussed wax play, I knew nothing about it. Nothing meaning I didn't have specific questions to ask because I had no knowledge of it. I'm grateful as can be that I did read a thread about that time on wax play where someone didn't just address the question about temperature of scented vs unscented candles, but instead went through all the safety information. Because if the people answering the thread had just answered the specific question, I might have offered up beeswax candles, not knowing how hot they burn. Thankfully someone decided to put all safety info relating to wax play into that thread, because it probably saved me some bad burns. I'm not stupid, I simply was entirely ignorant of the entire subject. I read the thread, sent him the link, and we had fun. Oh, and my age at the time? 48 but still brand new to wiitwd.

DDraigeuraid -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 9:34:10 AM)
Why? Says who? Who died and left us the protectors of the innocent and not-so-smart? I never signed up for that, and I don't remember receiving that application in the mail. No one said that YOU have to. There are some of us who do. This is getting to be one of those "Who is a TRUE (or twue) Dom/sub threads. Dragon

Prinsexx -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 12:29:40 PM)
What is one person's sane, safe and consensual is another's downright unimagineable abusive risk. If I sat down at a surburban coffee mroning and started to talk about what it is that I do, someone would either dial 999, or maybe three of them might even conspire to have me sectioned. There is'n't a consensus about consensus, nor is there level-headednesss in sanity no more than safety without limits. There's more of a consensus about what it is that we shouldn;t do than what it is that we do. People risk thir lives for sex over and over, And communication? Well the divorce rate must have something to do with the probability that none of us get born with an internal manual or a set of age-related volumes on how to communicate. Most just get by by 'bumping into' their spouse either at the superarket, the pub, or bowling alley. The world gets by and gets procreated I believe by a process of serendipidty set somewhere along the continuum of synergy and entropy. The spiritual aspects of it all keep alluding me at least so I am lead to asume that those apsects allude most. Sometimes I don't necessarily think that power exchange is as special as it is supposed to be: after all exchanging housework for a roof over one's head, or exchanging one's labour for wages , or obedience for education: these are all forms of power exchange. Is it special just because it has an erotic ekement? Maybe I've lost the thread of what you are actually asking but outside of the actual experience, in the moment, at the point of contact, between two or more people (or sex with oneself....hey it doesn't even have to involve anyne else)......kink isn't such a big bad deal. Except that it's better for me if it is. I love pain, drana, withdrawal, heighetened awarenes, variety, excitement, powerlessness, and I was tempted to say near death experiences but maybe that's just being a tad irresponsible. Oh yes: this is the same old crap all over again.....sorry.

MladyHathor -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 12:57:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DDraigeuraid Why? Says who? Who died and left us the protectors of the innocent and not-so-smart? I never signed up for that, and I don't remember receiving that application in the mail. No one said that YOU have to. There are some of us who do. Dragon Dragon makes a good point, no one says you have to, there is nothing in the TOS that says you HAVE to provide educational, intelligent, helpful advice---as far as who died and left us the protectors of the not so smart---uhm aren't you part of the human race?

Poetryinpain -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 3:58:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DDraigeuraid Why? Says who? Who died and left us the protectors of the innocent and not-so-smart? I never signed up for that, and I don't remember receiving that application in the mail. No one said that YOU have to. There are some of us who do. This is getting to be one of those "Who is a TRUE (or twue) Dom/sub threads. Dragon This is true. No one HAS to. But also, we MAY do it if we feel so inclined. pip, grateful some people are so inclined

breatheasone -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 4:07:21 PM)
I am my Brothers keeper....[:)] and I do it gladly.

robertolapiedra -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 5:36:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DDraigeuraid This is getting to be one of those "Who is a TRUE (or twue) Dom/sub threads. Dragon Hello Dragon. It has nothing to do about what kind of dom or sub you are. It as all to do with what kind of person you are. If you crossed the street and was on the verge of being hit by a truck because of distraction (stupidity, deafness, etc) some people would yell out a heads up, some would just watch (in enjoyment or horror) and there are those who like to push you in front of the truck. If you dont give a shit that does not make you true, uber or RACK oriented. If you do give a shit, it does not mean you do wussy either. RL.

Bound2One -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 9:43:12 PM)
Hey, Mr. Cranky Pants! Take a chill, honey - all this stress is not good for you! Seriously, in the time that I've been reading the boards, and contributing, since September (under a different name prior to this one), the amount of posters who have come and gone is remarkable. Newbies come by all the time. Old posters who I haven't ever heard of but who have thousands of posts, suddenly appear. You have no idea who is reading the posts and learning from them. If someone feels obligated to point out safety, communication, or whatever else annoys you, just look past that post. Who is it harming? Could it possibly be helping someone? If that is the case, then why bitch about it?

TexasMaam -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/12/2008 11:48:13 PM)
You, young Dom, and your ilk, are the reason the PSA's are so very necessary. You obviously do not know what it is to be so far on the brink of that void we all call subspace that you would happily, gladly, achingingly longingly die for the One who would put you there. You would, in that instant, give up life, or limb, or soul. You, young Dom, are expected to be the one to pull her back from that brink without harm. Safe. Sane. Consensual. Just as there is a powerful darkness pulling a submissive over the brink if they allow it to happen, there is a corresponding dark force pushing the Dom to do the same. If you haven't had to stop yourself at the brink of destruction, if you don't believe that it's possible for you to ever feel that consumed by WIITWD, then you will not be prepared for that negative, intoxicating, powerful force when it overtakes you. Get over yourself and pay attention to the mantras you find so irritating. You have much to learn. TexasMaam

Leatherist -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/13/2008 12:25:03 AM)
At some point you do find yourself there. The connection has been made, and the possibilities seem vast and endless in that moment. The feeling of power can be all consuming, the lust to use it magnetic. It's in those moments that you need to have that solid core that sets the boundaries. That you could-but that you will not. At it's deepest core-this is what your submissive needs to be able to reply upon. That in places where the primal could consume her-you will always bring her back. When this core cannot be found in a Top-when it falters and fails, from lust, from ego, insanity.....ignorance, and stupidity.....tragedy. We know, we care. And we will continue to care, and we will continue to speak of our care and concern. And if there is upset over it-that is fine. It's means that you hear. And that whether the counsel is accepted or no-we at least tried.

SayaNereida -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/13/2008 1:14:53 AM)
quote: The "stop, drop, and roll" example given earlier is possibly the only rational explanation I agree with. However, we are not in 3rd grade. Any one on these boards, has attested by agreement to TOS they are at least of legal, consenting age, thereby negating the possibility of being so young. And hence, the example becomes moot. I am not trying to enforce or dicourage the practice of either acronym. What I am asking, is why is this the be all, end all, of these posters of pestulance? Are we teaching elemetary school? Are the ones who need to hear this, going to all of a sudden stand up, and scream "OMG. It all makes sense now? Now I know exactly every line I am unwilling to cross." No. You know it, and so do I. Try not looking at it as 'teaching elementary school' but the unaware, uninformed and inexperienced. For a child, the 'stop, drop and roll' may have been the only thing they have ever heard about a fire, but at least it is something and it WILL help them if they find themselves in need of the information. Yes, we are all assumably of legal, consenting age, but it doesn't mean we are aware, informed or experienced and the basics of any thing can never really be repeated enough, in my opinion. For me, as far as SCC and RACK, I look at it like this; when I was a child someone taught me my alphabet, how to write them and how to identify them (beginning my awareness), writing and reading over the years has increased my information and experience, everyone has to start somwhere. I don't write and read in only simple block letter still, I learned, and that takes time and repetition. Saya * haven't read the full thread yet, only to the post containing this quote

LadyPact -> RE: This aint PBS, I don't need a PSA (4/13/2008 5:49:36 AM)
I'm not exactly sure where I fit into your definition of the two sides of either agreement, or I've been one of the folks who spew the mantra. It can be hard to know where to place yourself after a certain number of posts. I know there have been times that I've written posts that were completely focused on safety. In fact, I'm sure I've done so repeatedly. I wouldn't venture to guess how often, but I know they're out there. Which brings Me to the whys and wherefore's. One of the things you mentioned in your original, HerLord, was your thought that it is your belief that "most" of the people on the site have a reasonable amount of experience in BDSM and life to know what is right for them. That's My first point of contention. I'm not especially sure the "most" is appropriate. I would absolutely agree that a good percentage of the regular posters here would fit that generalization, but I have no idea of how the numbers really break down. I'm sure there is also a considerable number who either never intend to be involved in this thing away from the computer screen, or are using this site and other sources as gateway information before they hit (pun not intended) the BDSM world that's outside their front door. For that last section of the CM population, talk of SSC, RACK, communication, negotiation, ad naseum, is probably very appropriate. Which leads Me to My next point. It's the net, dude. Most of the discussions that you refer to with safety being the hymn of the choir over and over, usually aren't necessary to go over repeatedly should a person be at a play party or an event. Exception for those cases where it is obviously someone's first time there, or someone is seeking specific advice on a particular matter. Not too long ago, I started a thread about intelligence. It was about the same time another poster had a thread going on about common sense. Yes, you would think most people would know that it's important to communicate with your partner, and that doesn't change just because a relationship has a BDSM element to it. You'd imagine that people who would trust their instincts to avoid some creepy person following them on the sidewalk would do the same at a BDSM club in the same situation. You might guess that people would use the same criteria to evaluate a person taking someone on a vanilla date, as they would for a first meeting of another person involved in wiitwd. Unfortunately, throw the idea that someone might be interested in flogging into the mix, and you seem to have a whole new ballgame. Suddenly, people can't figure out that they need to trust their gut, determine whether they are in a safe situation, and take simple precautions. In closing, you're probably not going to get away from those repeated subjects of SSC. RACK, communication, etc. It might be frustrating for the seasoned practitioner to hear over and over, but you never know what's going on in the mind of the other person who's facing another screen.

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