RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (Full Version)

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wolfinside -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (10/26/2005 1:42:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: quietkitten

Someone people spend a lot of their lives having no idea that they are inherently dominant or submissive. They fall in love with someone and get married... spend 10 years together and then suddenly wake up one day and realize that something is missing.
Trust me... it happens, it happened to me.
Thankfully I have a great man who is willing to try it out, but not everyone is so lucky.

Is it fair to expect a partner to suddenly make a huge change because their spouse has realized they are submissive? Not many people have a "Dom" switch readily available.
There is no easy answer to this one.....



It happened to me too.

I had NO idea that the way I was and the fantasies I had, have a name.


Wolf





MsIncognito -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (10/26/2005 2:48:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressKay

"Honey - tonight I want to be your knight in shinning armor... I want to spoil you and treat you like the goddess that I see you as. You are the woman of my dreams and all I have ever wanted - tonight I want to kneel at your feet and give you whatever pleasure you would like. Whether that pleasure be cleaning your kitchen or giving your body a massage - tonight I want to play the role of your knight, showing you just how truely devoted I am to you and your pleasure. I think you are an amazing woman and I love you." <he would then kneel before her taking his cue from her>


As someone who is in a vanilla marriage I can tell you that this would *so* not work for me and I bet it wouldn't work for many women. Why? Simply because I have no desire to have my husband "prove" his love for me. He's proven it every time he's held me while I wept, when he's listened to me rant just because I needed to and when he's supported me in making tough decisions (even if he didn't agree with my choices). Cleaning my kitchen isn't a sign that he loves me. Cleaning my kitchen is a sign that he realizes that he lives here, too, and that we all share in the chores. Rubbing my feet is just a nice thing to do, it's not proof that he loves me or thinks I'm an amazing woman.

I think the error you're making here is that you're looking at it from the perspective of a woman who is dominant and enjoys those things. I and many other women don't necessarily see those things as signs of love and adoration - we see them simply as the things you do to keep a relationship working.

Also, many women are not comfortable asking for what they want (be that a foot rub, having their windows washed or having their husband lick their boots) so having someone on their knees waiting for her to lead wouldn't be appealing. I spend all day in charge. I so do NOT want to have to be in charge in my relationship, too. I don't want to have to tell him to do this, lick that, stroke this, clean that and polish this. To me this seems incredibly tedious. It would feel like simply another demand to me and frankly that's the last thing I need. I wonder how many of these submissive husbands would respond favourably if the wife responded with "OK, act really Domly, tie me up, beat me until I'm black and blue and then fuck me silly all the while not caring if I'm enjoying it or not." I bet that would go over real well.




Sardaxia -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (10/26/2005 3:22:34 PM)

Thats a good point MsIncognito, it's definately a compatability issue.

I've wondered if I knew what I was like before I got married would I be with someone else? But I didn't know & when you're married with kids it's a little more difficult, you can't just walk away (with or without kids I wouldn't want to anyway - it isn't all to do with sexual gratification after all)

Thanks also Wolf...
quote:

Assuming you are totaly straight, ask yourself this question, could your wife convince you to like giving head and getting ass fucked by another man while she watched? (if that was her fantasy)
I think that this is an unfair comparison though! Maybe another female with strap-on but definately no males...eeeuuuuuwww [:'(] I would try most things but anything with guys in would be an instant turn-off - after all I'm talking just a little bit of bedroom D/s not fully dungeoned bondage sessions 24/7![sm=rolleyes.gif]




wolfinside -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (10/26/2005 4:54:39 PM)


I don't mean to be unfair with my comment. But I did use an extreme example to drive home a point.

What is fun for one person might be a hard limit for another.

She might be as turned off by doing this kind of thing as a straight man might be turned of by the idea of bisexuality.

One persons fantasy can be another persons hell.

And I think everyones limits should be respected. It would have been easy for me to judge my ex for not trying those things, but it would have been wrong. People are built the way they are when it comes to some things.

I hope for this thread posters sake, he can get her into it. A marriage could be and should be saved.

In my case we broke up about things having nothing to do with sex, and it was after that in single life I saw the big picture.

And since seeing the light, I would NEVER be with anyone who didn't share my basic kinks.


Wolf





BalletBob -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (10/26/2005 7:33:21 PM)

Isn't it so much fun, to cut down the Vanilla Male, when you aren't one? How does that expression go, wait til you walk a mile in my Mary Janes....I mean Shoes?

Who knows why we do this, except for us. Maybe we are married for "20" YEARS, then discovered something new and wonderful, called B&D?

Why should we throw away a great mate, because she doesn't want anything to do with B&D? So we sek out other for it, and with me, there is No sex with another. It doesn't hurt anyone, and my wife is happy not having to deal with it, and I am happy not bother my wife with it. It's been 30 years now, and why fix something that isn't busted?

BalletBob




LuvSponge -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (2/26/2006 2:50:01 PM)

That's as much as to to suggest "why can't gay people who marry heterosexual people just learn to live with it?"

I was married to a woman who, while dating, made it clear to me "every dream you ever had sexually will be realized".

It turned into a nightmare.

She was so repressed it was incredible. She asked me once (this was only an example...it was repeated a thousand times in myriad forms) "what's your biggest sexual fantasy?" After having been freaked out by my desire on our honeymoon to go out on the beach under a tree and have sex at 3 in the morning ("what if someone see's us????!!!!") and only months later in our home listening to her chagrin with my wanting to do it with the lights on, I was at best hesitent in telling her my biggest fantasy, but, after literally a year having her tell me everything sexual was "dirty", I told her.

"Watching two women together".

Not at all uncommon. Last I heard, 95 out of 100 men like that, and the other 5 are lying their asses off.

At that instant, and for the next 2 months, almost every night, she cried saying "I can't do that for you...it's disgusting".

Her orientation was never more valid than mine, nor mine hers, but in very short order, having every opportunity for us to bond physically, we grew apart more on a daily basis.

Within a very short time, if asked, my answer became "I have no interest whatsoever in telling you either my fantasies, or even my day to day dreams".

Every chance I had I tried to do things that interested her (sex was not one of those things unfortunately), but after about 5 years of literally doing everything I could think of, including everything she could think of as well...the well was dry.

It isn't too much to ask, in my opinion, for each partner, whether sub or Domme, Vanilla or not, to pursue on a daily basis, that thing which floats your partners boat, and to do things which may not appeal to you solely because they appeal to your partner.

It just so happens that in a sub/Domme relationship, the subs pleasure comes from pleasing the Domme.

In the 70's women were all over the streets making it clear to men that they were equal in every way. A long time in coming, and most things worth fighting for have been achieved by that very mechanism, but there isn't a woman alive who doesn't know inherently that they're "more equal in some areas than" men will ever be.

That arena is the sexual arena.

I'm a firm believer that more marriages would be saved, many of you wonderful Dommes would be the victim of far fewer married sub wannabees, and more vanilla wives would be vastly happier, I submit even blissful, if they just occasionally considered that men are very different from women, that wanting to see them with another woman, seeing their wives in black leather, beating their husbands, calling them names, or even (as in cuckold scenes) watching their wives with another man is not only not "disgusting", it also is less likely to be an opportunity for the husband to create a loophole for him to venture outside the marriage, but rather, men are different, we are interested in different things, maybe it's the testosterone, maybe it's simply the way that we're wired...but it's a fact of life...we like very unusual (by some measures) things, and if given, even in the same fashion each and every time with no changes in the script whatsoever...we'll likely go to work thinking "man I've got the most awesome wife!!!" and conquer worlds, for them.

If more vanilla wives would consider the above and think to themselves (and act on) "ya know...that's some freaky shit, but it gets his endorphins running on overdrive, and if that's what it takes to make his brain explode....I'm all for it", you'd see more men running home to their wives, fewer divorce attorneys, and ultimately, far happier marriages.

I guess in short, women have control of the on/off button as to sex. Every woman knows this and every man is subject to it in some fashion. In that arena, a vanilla wife has much more control over how happy the sexual relationship is between the two of them, and having spoken to a number of friends in vanilla marriages, it's the oldest story in the book. He's experiencing normal male desires, many of which we, in this community think nothing of, she thinks it's "perverted", he learns quickly not to mention it or anything remotely equivalent, and over time they both grow further apart, each wondering why the other is more distant, and walls that grow taller by the day until one day they've each planted their flag, built their own worlds and neither is welcome in the other.

And yes, it's sad.




LuvSponge -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (2/26/2006 2:52:51 PM)

Mistress Kay, that was exceptionally well written.

Very much on point.




LadyJulieAnn -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (2/26/2006 3:29:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LuvSponge

That's as much as to to suggest "why can't gay people who marry heterosexual people just learn to live with it?"

I was married to a woman who, while dating, made it clear to me "every dream you ever had sexually will be realized".

It turned into a nightmare.

She was so repressed it was incredible. She asked me once (this was only an example...it was repeated a thousand times in myriad forms) "what's your biggest sexual fantasy?" After having been freaked out by my desire on our honeymoon to go out on the beach under a tree and have sex at 3 in the morning ("what if someone see's us????!!!!") and only months later in our home listening to her chagrin with my wanting to do it with the lights on, I was at best hesitent in telling her my biggest fantasy, but, after literally a year having her tell me everything sexual was "dirty", I told her.

*snip*

I guess in short, women have control of the on/off button as to sex. Every woman knows this and every man is subject to it in some fashion. In that arena, a vanilla wife has much more control over how happy the sexual relationship is between the two of them, and having spoken to a number of friends in vanilla marriages, it's the oldest story in the book. He's experiencing normal male desires, many of which we, in this community think nothing of, she thinks it's "perverted", he learns quickly not to mention it or anything remotely equivalent, and over time they both grow further apart, each wondering why the other is more distant, and walls that grow taller by the day until one day they've each planted their flag, built their own worlds and neither is welcome in the other.

And yes, it's sad.


What I think is sad is when people decide to get married to someone who really isn't a good match for them in the things that matter most to them. Too many couples settle for someone because they think things will drastically change after they get married. If someone you are dating makes you believe that "every dream you had sexually will be realized", it's probably a good idea to have some evidence to that fact before you commit more fully.

I don't agree that the woman has more control over the sexual success of the couple. Both people are responsible, and it's much better to be well matched in that area than to put the responsibility on one person only.

Be well,
Julie




mnottertail -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (2/26/2006 3:31:49 PM)

Could I once again dear friends, point out in my assholedness that mayhaps not all people value that attribute as strongly as you do?

Or......... not,

Jus' Me




cloudboy -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (2/27/2006 6:43:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PatentLeatherMdm

would like to hear from male submissives in this positon and see discussion on what you do to remain sane at home?



The problem with asking “why aren’t married people this way or that way,” is based in the idea that spouses are geared to be everything to one another over a lifetime. Its better if spouses have a somewhat reduced role/expectation, which would be “most everything” to each other. This allows each spouse to appreciated the strong points of the other without concentrating on what is lacking. "What is lacking," then becomes merely a problem for each spouse to solve individually --- and on the intimacy front this is quite a challenge.

Here’s the experience of one femsub here.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_275405/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#276140

Notice she likes enjoying the best of both worlds? Notice how she doesn’t believe in or want to change her spouse?

This thread also explored the no BDSM in the marriage dilemma:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_264916/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#264916

Here are some comments by a malesub friend of mine similar to the femsub above:

>I have just read the comments regarding the question posed by, pearlandsub, a married man and you own thoughtful comments. I just wanted to say that I agree with you.

I feel that you are quite right that the universal condemnation by the others is because they do not have the experience to fairly judge. The world is not as black and white as they wish to make out.

My own circumstances are that I’m married with family commitments and that I have no intention passing up on my responsibilities. The marriage works well in most respects and is a good partnership, however I know for a fact that my wife has no interest in BDSM, and is even horrified by it. My own interest in BDSM has developed since we first met nearly twenty years ago (my God how time passes!). The simplistic choice is to leave my wife and children so that I can satisfy one part of my life (and I’m afraid to say that, that’s all BDSM is - one aspect of my life) in order to be true to myself. The other option is to ‘cheat’ and preserve my relationships with my wife and more importantly children.

I think life is too short to worry what others think and I have taken the pragmatic step to find someone who accepts that other part of me. Apart from the dishonesty to my wife, who I know would just rather not know, it does not necessarily follow that I will ‘cheat’ on a BDSM partner. I have taken a pragmatic approach and found outside of my marriage the missing element. I am fortunate to have found a married woman (in similar circumstances) with whom I play. We have known each other for over two years ago and we are completely open and honest with each other- there is no reason not to be.

I have copied this message also to pearlandsub so that he knows that not everyone condemns him. Why he actually asked the question I don’t know because of course it’s fundamentally wrong to ‘cheat’ and the response he received was predictable. Was he seeking approval for his actions I wonder?<

Rerouting someone’s orientation doesn’t work too well, if at all. At best you get a little bit of role play and that’s it.

The problem of BDSM and marriage is that the two arcs often misalign. By the time you realize that there are real BDSM options out there and you realize and accept your own orientation, you are often already married.

One of the reasons I was a late bloomer was outlined in this thread by realist:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_104037/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#104037

At age 23, I remember having kinky contacts magazine, and writing to several “Mistresses,” who as it turned out, were all PROs. It was all about the money and client relationship with them. I concluded back then that genuine dominant women didn’t really exist, they were just figments of male projection fantasy. In their place were just women out there making a buck off unmet male needs. So, I gave up on my pursuits and as best as I could, tried to purge my own kink orientation away.

What some may forget here is that “regular” people view doing violence toward a loved one as abnormal. Its not like you can really talk them into thinking its “ok,” much less expect them to have enthusiasm for it. So, for a married to vanilla person, going poly is the best option to staying married.





texturedshroom -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (2/27/2006 8:25:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

Couldn't one ask the question why don't submissive males learn the value of their vanilla wives and live in that way?

You can't suggest that YOUR orientation is somehow the "right" one that everyone should aspire to match. Yours is no more or less vital than hers.


Though I don't know, I would imagine that such submissive males in such relationships do have sex with their vanilla wives and do value them. If that's the case, they're making as much of a sacrifice as their wife would have to in order to experiment with their interests.




LuvSponge -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (2/27/2006 4:53:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyJulieAnn


it's probably a good idea to have some evidence to that fact before you commit more fully.

Be well,
Julie[/color]


Can't argue that point at all. At the time I was young, naive, and far too trusting, and frankly, at that point in my life I held very strong opinions about test drives (as in being "good" until the wedding night).

Now I believe VERY strongly in test driving the merchandise, moreover, taking it around some real sharp hairpin turns and even squealing the tires hahaha.




LadyJulieAnn -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (2/27/2006 5:13:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Here are some comments by a malesub friend of mine similar to the femsub above:

>I have just read the comments regarding the question posed by, pearlandsub, a married man and you own thoughtful comments. I just wanted to say that I agree with you.

I feel that you are quite right that the universal condemnation by the others is because they do not have the experience to fairly judge. The world is not as black and white as they wish to make out.

My own circumstances are that I’m married with family commitments and that I have no intention passing up on my responsibilities. The marriage works well in most respects and is a good partnership, however I know for a fact that my wife has no interest in BDSM, and is even horrified by it. My own interest in BDSM has developed since we first met nearly twenty years ago (my God how time passes!). The simplistic choice is to leave my wife and children so that I can satisfy one part of my life (and I’m afraid to say that, that’s all BDSM is - one aspect of my life) in order to be true to myself. The other option is to ‘cheat’ and preserve my relationships with my wife and more importantly children.


I wonder how realistic it is to believe that your relationships with your wife and children are going to remain preserved and unchanged once you have another person in your life to that extent.

quote:

I think life is too short to worry what others think and I have taken the pragmatic step to find someone who accepts that other part of me. Apart from the dishonesty to my wife, who I know would just rather not know, it does not necessarily follow that I will ‘cheat’ on a BDSM partner. I have taken a pragmatic approach and found outside of my marriage the missing element. I am fortunate to have found a married woman (in similar circumstances) with whom I play. We have known each other for over two years ago and we are completely open and honest with each other- there is no reason not to be.


I've always found it interesting when one finds it much more important to be totally honest with a D/s partner than with the person you married and with whom you have built a life.

quote:

What some may forget here is that “regular” people view doing violence toward a loved one as abnormal. Its not like you can really talk them into thinking its “ok,” much less expect them to have enthusiasm for it. So, for a married to vanilla person, going poly is the best option to staying married.


As far as I know, being poly makes the assumption that *everyone* is aware of what is going on.

Be well,
Julie




LuvSponge -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (2/27/2006 5:48:44 PM)

No need for me to quote the OP...all I can say is;

DAYUM that was well written and well thought out!




SimplyV -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (2/27/2006 7:09:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuvSponge

In the 70's women were all over the streets making it clear to men that they were equal in every way. A long time in coming, and most things worth fighting for have been achieved by that very mechanism, but there isn't a woman alive who doesn't know inherently that they're "more equal in some areas than" men will ever be.

That arena is the sexual arena.

I'm a firm believer that more marriages would be saved, many of you wonderful Dommes would be the victim of far fewer married sub wannabees, and more vanilla wives would be vastly happier, I submit even blissful, if they just occasionally considered that men are very different from women, that wanting to see them with another woman, seeing their wives in black leather, beating their husbands, calling them names, or even (as in cuckold scenes) watching their wives with another man is not only not "disgusting", it also is less likely to be an opportunity for the husband to create a loophole for him to venture outside the marriage, but rather, men are different, we are interested in different things, maybe it's the testosterone, maybe it's simply the way that we're wired...but it's a fact of life...we like very unusual (by some measures) things, and if given, even in the same fashion each and every time with no changes in the script whatsoever...we'll likely go to work thinking "man I've got the most awesome wife!!!" and conquer worlds, for them.

If more vanilla wives would consider the above and think to themselves (and act on) "ya know...that's some freaky shit, but it gets his endorphins running on overdrive, and if that's what it takes to make his brain explode....I'm all for it", you'd see more men running home to their wives, fewer divorce attorneys, and ultimately, far happier marriages.

I guess in short, women have control of the on/off button as to sex. Every woman knows this and every man is subject to it in some fashion. In that arena, a vanilla wife has much more control over how happy the sexual relationship is between the two of them, and having spoken to a number of friends in vanilla marriages, it's the oldest story in the book. He's experiencing normal male desires, many of which we, in this community think nothing of, she thinks it's "perverted", he learns quickly not to mention it or anything remotely equivalent, and over time they both grow further apart, each wondering why the other is more distant, and walls that grow taller by the day until one day they've each planted their flag, built their own worlds and neither is welcome in the other.

And yes, it's sad.


There are two people in a relationship.. and yes.. your wife might have been a bit too prudish for you.. but you didn't even discuss this before you got married? Did she ever tell you what her fantasies were?

I don't believe that men and women aren't equal in the bedroom. Men can say no as well. There are differences between men and women in the bedroom and both sexes need to be aware of this. There are as many unenlightened men as there are women.

As for those desires.. There is a difference.. between fantasy and what is feasible. While in a relationship with someone as sexually open as you, anything is possible, very rarely is that the case. While getting a vanilla wife to give you an erotic spanking is something that is more along the ideas of feasible.. Wanting her to fulfill your fantasy of sleeping with another woman, probably isn't.

Some people just can't do public sex, or sex with others. Let alone adventuring into homosexuality waters.

And if being an "awesome wife" includes fulfilling all of a mans sexual fantasies, then I guess I won't ever be an awesome wife. Everyone has limits.

I see you list yourself as submissive.. I just didn't see it in your post.

I think there would be less divorce.. if people would communicate with each other. Both partners need to communicate freely and find some common ground. As done in BDSM, not everything is going to match.. some times one partner is going to want things the other partner doesn't. Its called working it out. When the communication breaks down though, it is incredibly difficult to keep it going.




LuvSponge -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (2/27/2006 9:07:21 PM)

Indeed.




cloudboy -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (2/28/2006 8:57:03 AM)

You misread the post. I don't have any children.

My point was to give real examples of what BDSMer's do when they're married to Vanilla. The common knee jerk reaction here is usually for others to pick the married to vanilla apart and say "how could you," and "why would you," and "I would never do that..." etc.

What some married to vanilla folks want is an option that doesn't include one or all of the following options: divorce, marital strife, repression, or conversion.





ownedgirlie -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (2/28/2006 9:10:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

You misread the post. I don't have any children.

My point was to give real examples of what BDSMer's do when they're married to Vanilla. The common knee jerk reaction here is usually for others to pick the married to vanilla apart and say "how could you," and "why would you," and "I would never do that..." etc.

What some marrid to vanilla folks want is an option that doesn't include one or all of the following options: divorce, marital strife, repression, or conversion.




i know of a Dominant who enjoys his marriage of 30+ years to a vanilla wife. When he expressed his desires to his wife, to explore this part of him, she said she was not interested in doing that with him. He said he would explore it safely on his own. She accepted this, but doesn't want to be part of it, therefore choosing to be unaware of what he does and with whom. She does not ask about it; he does not volunteer it. It works for them. Both feel their marriage has improved as a result, as there is less tension in it, as he is getting what he wants/needs, and she no longer feels pressure to provide something that does not appeal to her, thus feeling as though she is failing him somehow by not providing it.

There are no black & whites in relationships. Those of us who live this way of life should know that. i think it is ignorant for any one of us to think we know what is best in another's marriage or D/s relationship. We have seen it a million times in this lifestyle - "what works for one relationship is not the rule for all of them."

~ 2 more cents in the bucket ~




cloudboy -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (2/28/2006 9:42:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

i know of a Dominant who enjoys his marriage of 30+ years to a vanilla wife. When he expressed his desires to his wife, to explore this part of him, she said she was not interested in doing that with him. He said he would explore it safely on his own. She accepted this, but doesn't want to be part of it, therefore choosing to be unaware of what he does and with whom. She does not ask about it; he does not volunteer it. It works for them. Both feel their marriage has improved as a result, as there is less tension in it, as he is getting what he wants/needs, and she no longer feels pressure to provide something that does not appeal to her, thus feeling as though she is failing him somehow by not providing it.

There are no black & whites in relationships. Those of us who live this way of life should know that. i think it is ignorant for any one of us to think we know what is best in another's marriage or D/s relationship. We have seen it a million times in this lifestyle - "what works for one relationship is not the rule for all of them."


The "I know but 'don't ask and don't tell'" arrangement is one not widely understood here by either the monogamists or polyamorists. IMO, there are zones of privacy in every relationship, including marriage. "Bluebeards's closet" applies to us all. Of course there is also the modern, Orwellian opposite:

http://www.pcpandora.com/info/spouses.php
(taken from a CM ad)





LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Why Don't Vanilla Wives Learn to Value the Submissive in their Man? (2/28/2006 9:49:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
The "I know but 'don't ask and don't tell'" arrangement is one not widely understood here by either the monogamists or polyamorists. IMO, there are zones of privacy in every relationship, including marriage. "Bluebeards's closet" applies to us all. Of course there is also the modern, Orwellian opposite:

Oh I understand it. I also know that a great majority of those who claim to have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy are actually just blatantly cheating.

I also know that I don't want the lack of intimacy and sense of long term relationship that you get with that sort of arrangement. If I can't call you at 10 am on a Saturday morning to come pick me up at the airport, or if I can't call you at 3 pm on a Wednesday evening to take me to the hospital- then it's not a relationship to me. It's just play and fucking. I've got people to play and fuck with, who don't have the addition of a family/messy marriage they can't be open with.




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