Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (Full Version)

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AtlantaMistress -> Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 6:54:11 AM)

Ok...some friends and I recently were having a bit of a debate. Men and women had some differing ideas about this, and I would like to get the opinions of those of you that I really admire who post here frequently (Dommes and subs alike). This is pertaining to relationships - where 2 people are committed to a monogamomy, and friendships with those of the other sex.

I am of the opinion that it is FINE to have friendships (both vanilla and BDSM) outside of the relationship, as long as they are open. For example, for me to have male friends - as long as I am open with my partner about those friendships and I am VERY clear with these other men that I am in a committed monogamous (and might I add - HAPPY) relationship. It has gotten a little sticky when they cross the line from vanilla to BDSM - simply because the topics of conversation can be very erotic, and I am a big flirt. I won't deny it. I love the power trip I get knowing that a man desires me. Ok...a HUGE flirt. That said, I will for example chat with someone, and let my partner look over my shoulder at every word written, and let the man I am chatting with know he is right there. I know this makes some men uncomfortable to be in a relationship with someone who is so flirtatious - believing the "friend" may say he respects the relationship, but still has alterior motives. To me, I think my boy should trust ME knowing regardless what I may say I would NEVER cross any lines. There should be no jealousy (and in my case in particular - it took a while, but so does building that trust). I am OFF LIMITS to all other men physically, but is it a betrayal to play the mental game, if all parties are aware? I totally believe that if either my partner or "friend" did not know of the other, or if I was communicating with the "friend" without my partner knowing about it - that would be crossing the line. To me, being open and honest is what is important, not the subject matter or manner in which we communicate. Trust and communication are crucial to a relationship.

On the other hand, the point was raised, what if the friendship is just vanilla? If there is no flirting on the part of the party in the relationship, and it is just "platonic" is it okay, if neither parties (the significant other or the "friend") know about one another. To me, just removing the erotic nature has nothing to do with it, if you don't tell all parties concerned about one another - there is a MAJOR problem. You never know the "alterior motives" or expectations of a platonic friendship - especially if the friend doesn't know you are in a committed relationship, and whether the friend is a man or woman - it is a violation to not be open and honest. I believe it would be more of a threat to the relationship to have a friend that doesn't know about your partner, and your partner does not know about the friend. Personally,  I think it is wrong. I had a friend in the situation that I told him that he needed to tell his girlfriend about this other friend. I believe if she found out another way, without him telling her - even though in his mind he had not done anything wrong, just "hiding" it would raise red flags and could do unnecessary damage to the relationship. His point was that HE HATES DRAMA, and she may over react and he has no intention of anything outside of a platonic relationship. She is jealous (a quality I personally despise that I believe comes from insecurity). To make matters worse, I asked why the "friend" didn't know about the girlfriend. His answer made me even more uncomfortable - it was an ex vanilla GIRLFRIEND. He has always cared about her as a friend, and I think she is going through some things where he didn't want to add insult to injury by not offering friendship, and with what she is going through, if she knew he was in a new happy relationship, she may want to know all the "what does she have that I didn't" questions answered. He didn't want to get into the new relationship with her because it is not only vanilla but also D/s. The thing is, I know this guy, and he really loves his current girlfriend/Mistress. I told him he may be in for some serious punishment because if she finds out, especially if not from him...oh...I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.

So folks...what do you think:
Does removing the sensual, sexual or erotic nature of communication make it ok to have a friend that you don't have to tell your partner about?
Is it any different or worse if this friend is an "ex"?
Is it ok to have a friendship that is flirtatious, sensual, and erotic as long as it is platonic and you are open and honest with your partner, and it is made clear to the "friend" that you are in a happy committed monogamous relationship?
Is there a difference between a female having male friends or a male having female friends...in either case?
Should you just trust your your partner not to do anything to hurt the relationship, and not require that you know about friendships outside of the relationship?

Thank you in advance for reading this post...and I look forward to your responses!



undergroundsea -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 7:25:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtlantaMistress
Does removing the sensual, sexual or erotic nature of communication make it ok to have a friend that you don't have to tell your partner about?


I think what matters is whether one feels the need to hide something from a partner. If one truly thinks there is nothing wrong with it, there should not be a need to hide it. I think the argument that my partner doesn't trust me but she should be able to trust me and so I'll just hide it from her so as not to worry her is self-contradictory ;-)

quote:

Is it ok to have a friendship that is flirtatious, sensual, and erotic as long as it is platonic and you are open and honest with your partner, and it is made clear to the "friend" that you are in a happy committed monogamous relationship?


I think the answer depends on the relationship and the person involved. For some, BDSM activity that is not sexual or intimate but may include strong emotional bonds is fair game, for some intimate and sexual acts without love or strong emotional connection is fair game, for some even the flirting might be a boundary. I think it depends on what one feels to threaten the relationship--for some the boundaries are physical activities, for some the boundaries are mental or emotional activities, for some they are both. Ideally, two people will have similar perspectives about what threatens the relationship. If they do not, I think it is better to observe the tighter boundary until the person in question is comfortable to expand that boundary.

One point to consider within yourself is whether you would be equally comfortable if your partner had a flirtatious, sensual and erotic relationship with a female friend with your partner's word that it would not lead to physical activity. If so, your perspective is consistent in each direction and to you the boundary is physical activity only.

If your partner is uncomfortable with it, it may be that for him the mental interaction also crosses a boundary, or that he worries that the mental activity might lead to a growing bond that might eventually affect how you feel about the emotional and physical relationship with him.

One point I will add is that how much trust one is able to give might be related more to past experiences than to the current relationship. If one mistakenly thought in the past that a partner could be trusted, one might wonder whether one might be wrong again with a new partner who otherwise seems trustworthy.

quote:

Is there a difference between a female having male friends or a male having female friends...in either case?


I do not see a difference.

Cheers,

Sea



LadyPact -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 7:30:23 AM)

Good Morning, Sandy.

I was going to skip My input here, since you are specifically asking on the premise of a monogomous relationship.  However, as I read the post, I didn't really see the difference of the concern based on a mono situation, or a closed poly one.  I think the comments that I have will still apply.

Both My husband and My submissive are very well aware that I have male friends.  This includes both the kink, and non-kink variety of friendships.  I agree with you that those of the kink variety do tend to lead to more erotic discussions.  The topics are certainly different than those discussed with the non kink types.  What we do is very sensual, and when we know we have something in common, it's bound to be talked about at some point.  Since I wouldn't deny that even talking about certain things turns Me on, I'm pretty sure it has the same reaction from the person on the other end of it, if it's something that he gets into as well.

Here's the funny thing.  My husband will tell you that I am also a huge flirt.  Personally, I don't see it.  I think the difference in My opinion is that I'm not what I would term a 'casual' flirt.  The better I know someone, and how to push their buttons (i.e., the 'thrill' you mentioned above), the more likely it's going to happen.  This same man that I am married to will also tell you that I have this down to an art form.  There are times I don't even recognize Myself doing it.

Anyway, yes, all of this is done with his absolute knowledge.  I don't operate any other way.  It's been more times than I can count that, in the middle of a conversation, out of the blue, My husband will look over My shoulder, and ask Me to say hi to so and so.  He knows Me well enough to realize that a conversation is just that.  A conversation.  As he puts it, he knows who I come home to, and that's the important part.

Would this be entirely different if he wasn't aware?  Absolutely.  It's when people start feeling that they have something to hide, that there are issues.  If you can be honest about your interactions with others, there probably isn't anything wrong with them.  When deception comes into play, you have a whole new ballgame.



MladyHathor -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 7:32:00 AM)

Well, here is My $.02--this is only how I work and not a reflection on anyone else---I'm wide open--monag to Me is monag end of story--no flirting, no erotic talk, if I wantd to do that, I would remain single---(if it was done to Me, I'd be so hurt)--as for vanilla, again everything is in the open---hiding to Me is hiding---it doesnt matter to Me that I am the Dominant, I abide by My rules of a relationship--- I expect it and I honor it.



AtlantaMistress -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 7:38:24 AM)

Thank you LadyPact - for pointing out - that this is no different between a monogamous or poly relationship. To me - it is about Trust and Communication.

And Sea, thank you for your post as well. You mention consistentancy, and "if the shoe was on the other foot" so to speak. In my case (as given in the example) I did tell my boy, I had NO PROBLEM with him having a female friend, even flirting and discussing erotic things (there are some things that are erotic to him that others don't even see as sexual at all) - but if he made sure she knew he loved ME and was committed to ME and I knew about her - totally fine. I think you are totally right. What is good for the goose should be good for the gander.  On the otherhand, if there is something you are "hiding", regardless of the reasons or rationalizations, erotic or not,  it is not good - period.



AtlantaMistress -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 7:40:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

Well, here is My $.02--this is only how I work and not a reflection on anyone else---I'm wide open--monag to Me is monag end of story--no flirting, no erotic talk, if I wantd to do that, I would remain single---(if it was done to Me, I'd be so hurt)--as for vanilla, again everything is in the open---hiding to Me is hiding---it doesnt matter to Me that I am the Dominant, I abide by My rules of a relationship--- I expect it and I honor it.


I think this goes back to Sea's point, the rules of the relationship, and both parties must have an agreement and consistency in what is or isn't acceptable.



DiurnalVampire -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 7:44:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtlantaMistress
So folks...what do you think:
Does removing the sensual, sexual or erotic nature of communication make it ok to have a friend that you don't have to tell your partner about?

I have several friends I havent told Fox about. Not for any reason other than they simply havet come up in conversation. He has several who he has not told me about, I see their names on his facebook or something like that and sometimes I'll ask where and how he knows them, other times I dont really care to dig. I have no concern about his having friends of the same or opposite sex since I believe having separate friends are very necessary to having a healthy relationship. I do not worry he is going to do anything he shouldnt, and in the one instance one of his friends did act inappropriately, she was told politely that she could either respect our relationship or lose his friendship. She chose the latter and he doesnt feel like he has lost out for it.
quote:


Is it any different or worse if this friend is an "ex"?
Nope. Fox has none, so thats not a worry for me. I have several and stay friendly with them. He doesnt seem to care, since they are an ex for a reason.
quote:


Is it ok to have a friendship that is flirtatious, sensual, and erotic as long as it is platonic and you are open and honest with your partner, and it is made clear to the "friend" that you are in a happy committed monogamous relationship?
No, in my eyes it is not. I do not believe that leading someone on is appropriate at any point. Understanding or not flirting is an unacceptable behavior while you are in a relationship with someone. My boys know how I feel about it, and I abide by my own rules on this. I will not flirt when I am monogamously involved.
quote:


Is there a difference between a female having male friends or a male having female friends...in either case?

I get along better with males, typically. I am bisexual, so gender of the friend doesnt mean tey are more or less liekly to be someone I would have been interested in were I single. Fox gets along with everyone. Angel has more female friends than male.  It has never mattered as long as everyone involved has known that they are just friends and not going to be anything more. I tend to have more trouble with people sticking to that role and trying to push for morem but I never allow it to cause issues.
quote:


Should you just trust your your partner not to do anything to hurt the relationship, and not require that you know about friendships outside of the relationship?
I dont require that I know about all friendships. Angel and Fox both have friends back in their hometowns hat they have known since high school. Friends who are former or current co workers, sports team mates, school club associates... I have no real interest in getting to know each and every person the boys consider a friend. I know the major ones, the ones they spend the majority of their time with, but other friends they chat with when its convenient I dont concern myself with. They know a lot of my friends by name, but since I have few who are local, they may never meet the majority of them, so they are just names.


DV



Dnomyar -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 7:44:57 AM)

Looks at the 2cents.  What the hell can I buy with that. Don't you people know about inflation.



MistressNoName -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 7:57:28 AM)

quote:

So folks...what do you think:


I tend to agree with you on this. I don't see what all the secrecy is about, flirt or no flirt...matters not at all. Honesty is the key to building any strong relationship and the "I don't want the drama" attitude indicates several possibilities to me- the most poignant is that people in general tend to be really lazy about their relationships. Sometimes relationships take a lot of work. I find it sad that some people tend to think of the hard work that relationships sometimes require as "drama" and thereby minimize the importance of that work. Be honest in your dealings and your communications. Honesty leads to trust. Building a foundation of trust leads to lasting relationships...which is what we all say we want. So why not just DO what relationships require??

MNN



ShaktiSama -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 8:19:29 AM)

Does removing the sensual, sexual or erotic nature of communication make it ok to have a friend that you don't have to tell your partner about?

Depends on what stage of the relationship you're in.  It is impossible to disclose everything about yourself overnight, and list all of your friends and known associates in a single sitting.  On the other hand, if you've been in the relationship a while and this is a new friend you're making...hiding it is not a good sign.  At all.

Is it any different or worse if this friend is an "ex"?

Much.  Monogamy is about staking out sexual intimacy as a sacred space, which is shared by only two people.  You cannot expect your partners to have no previous experience with love and sex, but anyone who has occupied that intimate space in the past is going to have access to greater emotional intimacy.  If you are interacting with an ex-lover your partner should definitely be aware of it.  Being continuously open and honest is part of how you avoid the dreaded "drama"--nothing erodes trust and creates suspicion like hiding the fact that you're in contact with someone who might constitute a rival.

Is it ok to have a friendship that is flirtatious, sensual, and erotic as long as it is platonic and you are open and honest with your partner, and it is made clear to the "friend" that you are in a happy committed monogamous relationship?

That depends on the relationship.  You've obviously pre-loaded the question a bit because you want an answer that suits your personal tastes--you like to flirt and you don't like your partner to be bothered by it.  But the real answer is a lot more conditional.  If your partner is miserable with your behavior, something is wrong, and something has to give. 

Is there a difference between a female having male friends or a male having female friends...in either case?

And is there a difference between a submissive having dominant friends and a domme having submissive friends?  Not really.  It depends on who has control and how much the "friends" understand and respect the boundaries--and the social skills of the participants.  Some people can handle all this gracefully, some people cannot--and some people are safe and good to flirt with, while others are not.

I have had more than one person who was unable to be around me because he was in a committed relationship with another woman.  Much as I liked these men and wanted to be friends with them, I did not inspire "just friends" type feelings in them.  I had to respect the choices they made out of loyalty to their partners to stay the hell away.  I think anyone who cares about their partner should do the same, under those cirucmstances--avoid someone who makes you think and feel things that you really don'tt want to be thinking and feeling about anyone other than the S.O..

Should you just trust your your partner not to do anything to hurt the relationship, and not require that you know about friendships outside of the relationship?

You should be able to trust your partner, yes.  But you cannot trust someone not to do something to hurt the relationship unless he/she knows what hurts the relationship.  So you communicate your feelings, regardless of whether other people condemn them as "immature", "insecure", "unenlightened" (from the poly crowd), or whatever.

Your partner has to have an entire independent existence, including friends that go from early childhood to work to those people at the club.  Fuzzy boundaries are not good for me, personally.  No, I have to say in all honesty that I don't particularly want my lover spending hours on IM chating with other women, thanks.  Not if I'm available, certainly.  If he has time to spend hours with a woman, I'd sooner it was me, and if I'm not the person he wants to spend his spare time with--he should probably be in a relationship with someone whose company he enjoys a lot more!

And yes, any female acquaintance who wants him and flirts with him had best know that he is taken, and that he doesn't want to be anything BUT taken.  If he has ambivalent feelings about a woman, and is tempted to give her something that belongs to me--his love, his body, his submission, his time and energy--then he'd best find some way to gracefully bow out of that friendship and avoid her.  The same is true even if he isn't specifically attracted to her, but she is overwhelmingly attracted to him, and pushing the boundaries past the point that she can be called a friend--"friends" don't try to erode and destroy your romantic relationships so that they can get into your pants!



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 8:24:50 AM)

I see no point to secrecy, but also don't feel that full disclosure is necessary for every social interaction.  Two people are going to have family, colleagues, hobby friends, do they all need to be cleared?  I don't think so.

I am a HUGE flirt.  I only flirt with those that I am actually attracted to, but it is even more fun to push buttons!  There's a tough biker top that I always greet with a "Hi, Handsome X" and you should see how bashful he gets!  One day I'm going to give him a peck on the cheek and he will just fall right over.  [:D]    I do not have flirtatious "platonic" friendships, because in my mind, there is no such thing.  Encouraging an erotic aspect of a friendship beyond a little banter is just a bad idea, since I find it goes into the "leading him/her on" zone.  I'm poly, but I am not a cheat!  If  I want a relationship, I pursue it. If that relationship is not possible, I back down. 

That said, I do not flirt with those who are in relationships where the other party would be hurt or offended---I am not a poacher, I am only boosting egos here.  If my partner was uncomfortable, I would back off, as well, until I found out the reasons why. 



AtlantaMistress -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 9:41:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

Is it ok to have a friendship that is flirtatious, sensual, and erotic as long as it is platonic and you are open and honest with your partner, and it is made clear to the "friend" that you are in a happy committed monogamous relationship?

That depends on the relationship.  You've obviously pre-loaded the question a bit because you want an answer that suits your personal tastes--you like to flirt and you don't like your partner to be bothered by it.  But the real answer is a lot more conditional.  If your partner is miserable with your behavior, something is wrong, and something has to give. 


GREAT ANSWERS - and I think you break it down again to those 2 most important points - Trust and Communication.

Just for the record - in my situation, and the way it "is what it is and must be ok" - I am a Pro Domme. My boy knew that when he met me...actually tease him that every dollar spent for tribute of his one and only paid session was a lottery ticket and he hit jackpot! I have very real friendships with the boys I see - but I do make a living by the control I get from these men and the fact that they desire me. They all know about him, and in fact, those that I actually have close friendships met have met him and become OUR friends. I know for a while, he thought - "any one of these men wishes they could trade places with me" and since I am MUCH DIFFERENT than any other woman he has ever had a relationship (even if you only look at my "vanilla side" - just not the "typical girl") and he was a bit threatened by that. Some of these men are very attractive and wealthy. It has taken time for him to TRUST ME enough to know that I am off limits to everyone but him, and would NEVER violate that. I told him from the beginning (after telling him I didn't want a relationship, but then falling for him) that because of my "job", it would not be easy, but I was not looking for a relationship - perfectly fine on my own, and not interested in changing who I am because of anyone elses insecurities. It has been difficult at times, but as it was said in this post - honesty leads to trust...that takes time. I have been able to show him that he can look around the room at the club (where we perform - me dancing on him in 6" stilettos) and for every guy that compliments me, he can take the attitude:" yep - look all you want - she goes home with me!" I also encourage other woman to trample him - which may not be sexual for them, but I know it is HIS KINK...but he comes home with ME. he is constantly looking for opportunities for us to perform or do videos with other women (under the premise of "business" but I know full well, he LOVES IT.  he always tells them "My Mistress and I are interested in..." so I am fine with it! On the other hand, if he had some vanilla ex girlfriend he hadn't told me about, and she didn't know about me...and he communicating with her without telling me - me radar would be going off...and he would have my whip ("the bitch")on his back...not my heels!



ShaktiSama -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 11:05:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtlantaMistress
Just for the record - in my situation, and the way it "is what it is and must be ok" - I am a Pro Domme.


Believe me, I do understand.  My work as a photographer necessarily has an erotic element and some sort of rapport with my subjects--you cannot take sexy pictures of people unless they feel sexy at the time!  It is not the same as being a pro domme, I know, but there is a similar division between a relationship which is deeply intimate in my personal life versus the very different connection I make with a model during a shoot--even one who happens to be a good and close friend. 

I do not pay all the bills with my artwork.  On the other hand, I would not want to be with a man who did not appreciate my photographs or understand why it was a good thing for me to create art once in a while--or who could not understand that while my models are people I care about, they are nowhere near my lover in my hierarchy of priorities!

By the same token, if I'm going to be involved with a musician, actor or any man who spends his life on stage--or even just a man who is attractive and has a lot of sexual charisma and a lot of friends!--I'm going to have to accept that he will always be besieged with women who want him.  It's part of his nature to be attention-getting and desirable and sociable.  I'm going to have to cope with that, and have faith in his strength of character and his good intentions if he promises to be monogamous.

*shrug*  Anyway.  It plays both ways.  Exclusive relationships require trust, honesty and tenderness--and quite a lot of strength, sometimes.  The world is full of attractive and available people.  Some find it impossible to settle for just one.



RumpusParable -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 11:21:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AtlantaMistress

So folks...what do you think:
Does removing the sensual, sexual or erotic nature of communication make it ok to have a friend that you don't have to tell your partner about?
Is it any different or worse if this friend is an "ex"?
Is it ok to have a friendship that is flirtatious, sensual, and erotic as long as it is platonic and you are open and honest with your partner, and it is made clear to the "friend" that you are in a happy committed monogamous relationship?
Is there a difference between a female having male friends or a male having female friends...in either case?
Should you just trust your your partner not to do anything to hurt the relationship, and not require that you know about friendships outside of the relationship?

Thank you in advance for reading this post...and I look forward to your responses!


As always, there are no absolute answers to any of these.  Inappropriate/cheating behavior is defined by what is agreed upon in the couple and if a partner if violating those agreements.

I can only share how I prefer to have my relationships structured and how my and my spouse's functions, so here is that:

1) Does removing the sensual, sexual or erotic nature of communication make it ok to have a friend that you don't have to tell your partner about? 

A:  We are okay with having friends that the other does not know about, whether or not we have flirting or sexually-charged feelings involved. (BDSM or Vanilla friends).  We are not okay with lying about or hiding friends or acquaintances, but we don't have to tell each other about everyone.  Discussion of friends comes up naturally between us as we've something to say about one of them.
-------
2)  Is it any different or worse if this friend is an "ex"?

A)  Ex status has no bearing for us.
-------
3)  Is it ok to have a friendship that is flirtatious, sensual, and erotic as long as...?

A)  Yes.
------
4)  Is there a difference between a female having male friends or a male having female friends...in either case?

A)  Not at all.
------
5)  Should you just trust your your partner not to do anything to hurt the relationship, and not require that you know about friendships outside of the relationship?

A)  If you can't, why would you be with them at all?  Your knowing their friend doesn't stop a partner from cheating with them.  And knowing some of their friends doesn't keep them from hiding someone they're cheating with.  If someone's going to cheat, they're going to.  If they're not trustworthy, knowing their friend(s) does nothing to stop or lessen the odds of them lying to you.

At most, it gives some people a false sense of security.



AFlyInYourWeb -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 1:27:00 PM)

Q. Does removing the sensual, sexual or erotic nature of communication make it ok to have a friend that you don't have to tell your partner about?

A. Are you removing the emotional and mental nature of comminication as well?

Like yourself, I am hardly "typical", even in my non-D/s portions of life, so take this answer with that information in mind.  I would have no problem with you having friends of every gender, inclination and persuasion, having erotic conversations with them, or being a flirt.  What would nag at my mind would be: "WHY does she need to keep this relationship with him or her SECRET?"

Q. Is it any different or worse if this friend is an "ex"?

A. No, the secrecy thing would bother me more than the "ex" thing

Q. Is it ok to have a friendship that is flirtatious, sensual, and erotic as long as it is platonic and you are open and honest with your partner, and it is made clear to the "friend" that you are in a happy committed monogamous relationship?

A. I think it is, if both partners are secure in the relationship.

Q. Is there a difference between a female having male friends or a male having female friends...in either case?

A. No.

Q. Should you just trust your your partner not to do anything to hurt the relationship, and not require that you know about friendships outside of the relationship?

A. If one cannot trust one's partner that far, one does not belong in a monogamous realtionship with that particular partner, IMHO.




ElanSubdued -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 4:45:13 PM)

Mistress Sandy,

There have been a lot of good responses already and many of these have echoed my own thoughts.  I'm just going to underline one thing that I think is very pertinent (which Shakti alluded to):

Regardless of whether rationale, inspired by insecurity, right, wrong, or whatever... your partner's feelings are *his* feelings.  As human beings, even when we're secure in our relationship(s) and have great trust for our partner(s), sometimes pangs of jealousy and concern slip in.  It's probably not objective to hold myself up as a yardstick, but I'm going to anyway.  I'm probably one of the least jealous people I know and even still I've felt jealous from time-to-time.  Now to put this in perspective, my romantic, monogamous partners have always had independent friends of their own as have I.  Naturally, we've also had friends that we shared.  In one of my relationships, my partner used to love going the pub to dance and flirt with other men (and sometimes with women too).  I had no problem with this because she was very clear that the line stopped at simply "getting her groove on".

I tend to trust and am of the reasoning that my partner is going to do whatever she does regardless.  Thus, if she's going to cheat, nothing I do or say will stop this.  Now obviously, if I ignore her for long periods of time versus showering her with love and affection, this is going to have a big impact.  Given, however, that the relationship is healthy and mutually enjoyed, I see little point in being badgering each other about cheating.  Heck, if my partner wants to have sex with someone else, I've always communicated that I'd rather she just come and tell me rather than hiding it.  Together, we can solve problems, but if we're not mutually aware of what the problem is, it's not likely it will get solved and certainly not in a way that is satisfactory to both of us.

All of this said, at times, in the aforementioned, flirting at the pub and other scenarios, I've sometimes found it difficult to watch my partner acting in a sexual, flirty way with other people, even when I knew it meant nothing.  I've never hidden these feelings from my partners.  If I'm hurting or have a concern, I always express this openly.  Thankfully, my partners have also been willing to talk and to re-assure and comfort me.  Does / did this happen often?  No.  But it has happened and it probably will again.

My point is that your partner's feelings are important to him and I know they are important to you.  Thus, there are no absolutes here.  Asking "is this okay... is that okay, etc." is immaterial because your boy has his own, unique feelings.  In my opinion, if your partner has concerns, I suggest you acknowledge him.  His feelings are honest and okay, and I'm guessing he has expressed these in a way that is loving and respectful.  You may need to re-assure and comfort him.  You might have to establish some clearer rules and boundaries between your intimate, monogamous relationship and the friendships you have with others.  And yes, you may have to change some of your behaviour a bit - not a lot, but just enough to let your partner know that he is really, really important to you.  To me, this is a small price and well worth it.

In short, what I'm saying is (pardon my French) fuck all the "shoulds and shouldn'ts".  You both have feelings.  Your partner has some concerns.  So, talk these out, comfort one another, and find boundaries that work for both of you.  Most importantly, consider that you may both have to compromise somewhat.  It's rare that you can start a monogamous relationship and hold to the ideal of "this is the way I was when I started the relationship and my partner knew this".  I don't think this is a productive or helpful line of reasoning.  A monogamous relationship involves two people and it's likely that neither of you can go on being exactly as you were before the relationship started.  Heck, if you think about it, if you wanted to be exactly as you were before the relationship, what do you need the relationship for?  It's not realistic to maintain the status quo because you now have two sets of emotions, needs, and feelings to deal with.  This is part of being in a relationship.

So, to reiterate, I suggest acknowledging your boy's feelings, listening to one another with love and compassion, and together, discussing boundaries that work for both of you.  Sometimes, just acknowledging your partner and reassuring them is all you need do, however, you may need to do more.

I wish happiness and workable mid-ground to you both! :-)

respectfully,

Elan.



LadyJeelys -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 5:47:50 PM)

I would think it wrong if the man I'm in a relationship with had outside friends that he purposefully didn't tell me about. Being "commited" or to use the old fashioned termed, "faithful" to me isn't just about sex or arousal, but about being honest and having integrity---not only for the other person but for oneself. I guess the way I look at it, if you don't think the other relationship will hurt the person you've (you general, just to be clear) committed to, you wouldn't have to purposefully hide.....and if you do think it will hurt the person you've commited to and still proceed are you worthy why'd you enter the relationship to start out with?



DesFIP -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 5:58:48 PM)

I need to be his best female friend. If something happens and he calls another woman to talk it over instead of calling me, then I would be hurt. Even if they weren't sexual in action or tone. Calling his closest male friend to get another man's viewpoint doesn't make me feel superfluous the way him calling another woman would.

And no, I don't flirt when in a relationship and I don't feel comfortable if my partner does.



AtlantaMistress -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 6:40:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

Mistress Sandy,

My point is that your partner's feelings are important to him and I know they are important to you.  Thus, there are no absolutes here.  Asking "is this okay... is that okay, etc." is immaterial because your boy has his own, unique feelings.  In my opinion, if your partner has concerns, I suggest you acknowledge him.  His feelings are honest and okay, and I'm guessing he has expressed these in a way that is loving and respectful.  You may need to re-assure and comfort him.  You might have to establish some clearer rules and boundaries between your intimate, monogamous relationship and the friendships you have with others.  And yes, you may have to change some of your behaviour a bit - not a lot, but just enough to let your partner know that he is really, really important to you.  To me, this is a small price and well worth it.

In short, what I'm saying is (pardon my French) fuck all the "shoulds and shouldn'ts".  You both have feelings.  Your partner has some concerns.  So, talk these out, comfort one another, and find boundaries that work for both of you.  Most importantly, consider that you may both have to compromise somewhat.  It's rare that you can start a monogamous relationship and hold to the ideal of "this is the way I was when I started the relationship and my partner knew this".  I don't think this is a productive or helpful line of reasoning.  A monogamous relationship involves two people and it's likely that neither of you can go on being exactly as you were before the relationship started.  Heck, if you think about it, if you wanted to be exactly as you were before the relationship, what do you need the relationship for?  It's not realistic to maintain the status quo because you now have two sets of emotions, needs, and feelings to deal with.  This is part of being in a relationship.

So, to reiterate, I suggest acknowledging your boy's feelings, listening to one another with love and compassion, and together, discussing boundaries that work for both of you.  Sometimes, just acknowledging your partner and reassuring them is all you need do, however, you may need to do more.

I wish happiness and workable mid-ground to you both! :-)

respectfully,

Elan.


Elan,

Totally appreciate your post - however my relationship is not a problem - it was more a discussion raised and examples given of this friend and his "platonic friendship" with an ex vanilla girlfriend that neither the ex nor his current girlfriend/Mistress knew either existed. It sparred debate - and I think the bottom line that has been reiterated over and over has been trust and communication (something those who read my posts see over and over again) and honest communication leads to trust.

Those who also read my posts know how highly I speak of my boy and how important the relationship to me is, and his feelings. I understand it is not always easy to be with ME, and have changed my profile, written journals, and make undoubtably clear to EVERY person (male or female) that I am HIS, and I am in a happy monogamous relationship. I literally go out of my way - to do this to make sure he knows I love HIM. The relationship has progressed very quickly, and sometimes I forget that only time can build a certain amount of trust, so I do everything I possibly can to always reassure him - also showing him my past - a 17 year marriage that I did not leave and never was unfaithful, as well as the friendships I have managed to maintain with ex's - because I never treated them badly or hurt them. Still, I know there were times, in the beginning, and still may be as time goes on, that he will find it hard to believe that he has this relationship - the kind of dreams and movie screens. Trust me, there are times that I don't believe it is true...one of those too good things - can be scary.

Still, I was simply using myself as an example, because I am ALWAYS very open with him, and the friends I have, so feel no guilt in being...well basically - ME. I have tried to coach him on enjoying the looks and comments I get and having the mindset of "let them all be jealous...she is mine" - and I do the same thing with him. he played with many women in the community before he met me (and I am very glad he did) and I love that we have the kind of relationship that others would envy. I not only am ok with but actually encourage other women to "dance on him" knowing how much he enjoys it...and knowing he still comes home with me. I know he is a smart guy...and I trust him. Honestly, I think the D/s part of our relationship has made the total relationship the best I have ever had because there is NOTHING we cannot talk about and share and accept. Some things do take time. I certainly hope I did not give the impression that I ever just told him - "this is me, deal with it". Instead,if I say something of the sort, it is followed by - "I love you so much, I would never do anything to hurt you".





midgetmafiosa -> RE: Opinions on relationships and jealousy needed (4/14/2008 7:04:17 PM)

When I was married (really the last time I was truly monogamous), I had open, candid, and frank conversations with my friends, both male and female. I never confused that with flirtation, and I never hid any of my friendships from my husband. He did likewise. We also sought to integrate his friends and my friends into "our" friends. Not everyone is like this, I understand, but it's important for me to have everything out in the open; no secrets or lies of omission.



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