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RE: Thought Provoking... - 4/15/2008 8:13:26 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave
Can't you be slave to One and strong and decisive to the world at large?

How do you feel about it?  Do you feel submission can stop at the bedroom door?
 
And once you start surrendering in the bedroom, don't you feel -somewhere- a craving to submit in your daily life too?


Yes, I am his slave and still a strong a decisive person even with him.  The caveat to that is that I am decisive when he allows it and I am strong when he expects me to be.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

Yes, I think people can submit during sex or play and not outside of those circumstances.  I prefer the word bottom to describe this aspect of a relationship.

As for the last question...  I don't agree with the idea that anyone who identifies as a submissive will want or be fulfilled by submitting all aspects of their life to another person.  Some people are fulfilled by being the bottom; some are fulfilled by being submissive and others are fulfilled by being a slave.  What I find sad is a bottom convincing themselves that they are a slave in order to fit into some ideal fantasy that they have or a slave convincing themselves that they are a bottom because they think slaves are too weak. 

People should be in relationships that work best for them rather than trying to live up to some perception of what they think they should be.  If you are fulfilled by submitting in the bedroom and no where else, then why would you crave more?  If you are fulfilled by submitting in all aspects of your life, then why settle for less than that?  It comes down to what is best for that person and not some idealized notion of what a submissive/slave is.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to StormsSlave)
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RE: Thought Provoking... - 4/15/2008 9:11:42 PM   
softpjOS


Posts: 398
Joined: 6/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Since i am slave to InkedMaster i am required (and desire) to serve Him which also requires that i am strong and decisive in my dealings with the outside world.  In a previous post i post the simple examples of doing battle with the cable company or making sure the dry-cleaners gets the shirts done correctly.  my status of slave does not make me incapable, it is for my capabilities that i am owned. 

i don't have to refer to Him as "Master" when we are in the company of strangers or family but why would i not be in service to Him at all times and in all places?  Part of my service to Him is simply to be the best possible me i can be. 

Regarding submission.  i use the definition as 'yielding to the authority of another' and don't we all yield to the authority of our boss, law enforcement, etc?  How much we yield is usually in proportion to how much authority we see those people to have over us.  As slave, my Master has the utmost Authority over my life but i am still supposed to submit to the authority of my boss for my work.  The relationships are different, the type and scope of authority is different.

We will engage in BDSM activities in private, M/s is how we live, not what we do.


So very well said eyesopened!  My thoughts exactly, only stated much better :)

(in reply to eyesopened)
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RE: Thought Provoking... - 4/16/2008 3:48:17 AM   
jackriddle


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Thanks to Stormsslave for taking the time to answer my questions and for posting them here.

I'd like to comment kyraofMist's reply, since I feel it summarises quite well the position of "whatever works best for you"... I guess most would agree on this, since we're not here to judge anyone's lifestyle choices.

However, the question being originally targetted at
Stormsslave, an experienced lifestyler who therefore has a perspective on the evolution of her likes and dislikes, I was more interested in exploring the link (or absence of) between what is here referred to as "bottoming" and "submitting". What can bring a bottom to submit, can one remain a bottom forever without craving for more, is bottoming a confirmed lifestyle choice or a more transitory one, could some be confining themselves in the bedroom out of fear but deeply crave something else (I can perfectly understand that the perspective of submitting 24/7 could seem scary to a strong woman - although I assume nothing about the motivations of those having chosen this path)...?

Though it is obvious that there won't be one unique answer to each of these questions, I still believe that some people's thoughts on these matters are well worth sharing and could bring an interesting insight to those who -like me- try to make sense of what I feel remains a pretty complex subject.

But maybe it's just me...

Jack

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Thought Provoking... - 4/16/2008 4:21:25 AM   
StormsSlave


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Thank you, all of you, who responded to this post. 

First of all:
the.dark--It was difficult to take questions that were within the context of a conversation and pull them out of that context for the sake of this.  The questions were asked specifically regarding the relationship between My Lord and myself.  They were asked in a spirit of curiosity and a real desire to understand how we work.  The questions were set to that conversation.  However, it would take a whole lot of boring background crap to make it make sense that way, and I didn't want everyone doing this....

However, the questions stopped me, and I did a great deal of thinking about my own answers before replying to my friend.  Since my own thinking was really going in circles about it, I thought it would be beneficial and, well, thought provoking, to hear what others had to say. 

ownedgirlie--
I loved what you had to say.  You've had me thinking since I read it, and it has definitely given me food for thought. 

eyesopened--
I understand what you're trying to say about authority. 
quote:

We will engage in BDSM activities in private, M/s is how we live, not what we do.
  This really struck me, and I loved the way you said it.  That really makes perfect sense.

Prinsexx--Thank you for your candor and for sharing this.  I understand how you feel.  I'm sorry to hear that you went through such a terrible time.  But, as My Lord often says to me, "You got out."  Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

littlebitxxx-
quote:

As for outside the bedroom or playroom, I have a really hard time with the authority transfer, power exchange, whatever you call it.  I don't trust anyone enough to know better than me what's a good decision for me.  I don't want to give up my independence and my autonomy.  I don't want to "serve" another just because it pleases them, or it's what I'm supposed to do.  I don't want to have to submit to his will, I have my own will to consider.  I'm probably nervous that any giving of any authority is going to go into a downhill slide toward the "all about me" crap.  And I don't take orders well at all. ;)  So if I extend my so-called submission to outside the bedroom what's to stop it from taking off?  There is an addiction to the feeling and yes, I can see where it would become overpowering and want to continue into every facet of life.  So stopping it at the bedroom door is probably a fail-safe for me.


This really hit home with me.  I appreciate your blunt honesty.  I really liked what you had to say.

MasterFireMaam-
quote:


Usually, I call what happens in the bedroom 'bottoming'. It's HOT...it's FUN and it's MEANINGFUL...but it's not a long-lasting state of mind. I see submission as a state of mind...but usually only to one person or a few people, not necessarily the world (although there are people who seem to be that way). I see slavery as a state of heart/spirit...one where the person simply isn't spiritually complete unless they have a Master to serve.


This just makes so much sense.  You really put it into perspective. 

OmegaG
quote:

he wouldn't have been interested in my submission to him if I couldn't be independent and assertive, those were traits he looked for, he wasn't looking for another child to look after.


I liked what you had to say.  I think it takes more strength to submit in daily life then it takes to command, don't you?

My answers to the questions are below.

Can't you be slave to One and strong and decisive to the world at large?
As for being a slave, as I shared with My Lord, the very idea of it makes me feel claustrophobic.  The dynamic would click in that, in relationship, I expect my thoughts and opinions to be heard.  I expect something to be done.  I am going to speak my mind, even if it disagrees with yours.  In some ways, I am a control freak, and my ability to maintain my autonomy is one of the most important controls.  I've been setting myself aside for too many years for relationships, and am not willing to do that at this point.  A slave, by definition, keeps their mouth shut and does what they are told.

I also couldn't imagine submitting to any man except My Lord.  That's not to say it's impossible, just not likely.  There is a dynamic between us that is unique to us and for us creates that which we need to be able to be who we are.  We wake up beside our best friend every day.   It's brilliant, and wonderful, and I've never been happier. 

How do you feel about it?  Do you feel submission can stop at the bedroom door?

I think we're doing it.  I'm sure there are elements of submission to him that seep outside the bedroom door.  He says he sees them.  I think it's only that I agree with him on most things, and generally choose to pick my battles carefully. When something comes up that matters, I will have a voice in it.  Otherwise, most things aren't worth getting worked up about, imho.  Does that make me submissive, or lazy?  Either way, it's something that needs further thought.

And once you start surrendering in the bedroom, don't you feel -somewhere- a craving to submit in your daily life too?
Not so much.  I do trust My Lord implicitly, and have almost since I first met him.  It's been an eye opener for myself to realize how quickly and totally I could trust him, but life is funny like that. 

Sometimes friction between us is the fault of my inability to accept everything that comes out of his mouth with blanket approval, and he mine.  Just not within my ability to do so.  As he says, we are usually only angry at one another when the other person is right.  :)  He's not perfect, and part of my job in the relationship is protecting us.  Part of that is being able to speak up when need be.  A M/s dynamic nearly eliminates that kind of communication without adding a whole lot of formalities that neither of us wants.

A final note: Please keep in mind that my thoughts were my thoughts based on our relationship, and I in no way speak for the masses.  Here is my opinion, as it applies to me, and I don't judge anyone on anything they do.

Thank you for your insightful replies, and for yet more feul for my thoughts. 

_____________________________

Congratulate me...I'm a missus!!

--nobody's resident anything.

(in reply to StormsSlave)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Thought Provoking... - 4/16/2008 7:44:41 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave


OmegaG
quote:

he wouldn't have been interested in my submission to him if I couldn't be independent and assertive, those were traits he looked for, he wasn't looking for another child to look after.


I liked what you had to say.  I think it takes more strength to submit in daily life then it takes to command, don't you?




I think that I am naturally an assertive person, and I think that life choices have enhanced that trait in me.  Certianly their are times when I am drained and it would be lovely to curl up in a ball an let someone else handle issues that arise, but many times outside of a relationship I am simply decisive and assertive without thinking about it.

My dicotomy is that within a relationship I naturally defer to the male that I'm involved in-- possibly because of the stenght of my father's personality and it just seems right to me, possible because it's an internal trait-- most likely a combination of the two.  Until I could work out how I ticked, my problem was that I was expecting out of my partners something that they couldn't provide. 

For many years, while I was trying to figure things out I'd tell people that I needed someone that was MORE assertive, MORE decisive then I was.  What I desired was a dominant male that appreciated my strenghts and could utilize me while also appreciating and encouraging my role within the paramiters of the relationship.

I'm still working on articulating my thoughts, but I am getting closer....

_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to StormsSlave)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Thought Provoking... - 4/16/2008 4:47:03 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave
I think it takes more strength to submit in daily life then it takes to command, don't you?


It's ironic that in the Ask a Master section there is a thread right now about dominants needing a time out because of how much pressure there is in being the one in command.

I do not think that either submitting or commanding is inherently any more difficult, stressful or requires more strength than the other.  Whether it does or not depends highly on the person's natural inclinations and what is most fulfilling for them.

For a person who is naturally dominant and thrives on being the authority figure, then it is going to be easier to be the one in command.  It would take strength for them to submit to the will of someone else.  For my Lord, being the decision maker in our house is as easy as breathing; to submit is what would take strength from him. 

For a person who is naturally submissive and thrives on doing the will of someone else, then it will be easier to submit.  Being the one with the authority would take strength.  It takes more strength for Alandra to have any authority within our relationship than it does for her to submit and do what she is told.

Knight's Kyra



_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to StormsSlave)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Thought Provoking... - 4/16/2008 5:10:20 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jackriddle

I was more interested in exploring the link (or absence of) between what is here referred to as "bottoming" and "submitting". What can bring a bottom to submit, can one remain a bottom forever without craving for more, is bottoming a confirmed lifestyle choice or a more transitory one, could some be confining themselves in the bedroom out of fear but deeply crave something else (I can perfectly understand that the perspective of submitting 24/7 could seem scary to a strong woman - although I assume nothing about the motivations of those having chosen this path)...?



First... let me express that submitting is not the natural evolution from bottoming.  In fact, they are two very different concepts that can co-exist.  But... keep in mind.. a Dominant can bottom... just as a submissive could Top..

The following has been posted before and may help you understand my particular perspective of Dominant,Submissive, Top and Bottom.


Bottoms are simply a person that recieves the actions of another the Top.

Most consider Top to be in control and Bottoms to not be in control.  This in actually not universally true.  In fact.  The control... the person deciding what actions will be instigated can be decided by the Top or the Bottom.  The control is reflective of Dominating vrs Submitting

                                    Top
                                  (Giver)
                                       |
                                       |
                                       |
Dominate----------------------------------- Submit
                                       |
                                       |
                                       |
                                  Bottom
                                  (reciever)



Most Dominants are in the Upper Left quadrant.  While most Submissives are in the lower left quadrant.  However, some dominants will put themselves in the lower left quadrant.  IE... Recieving a blow Job.. but the still retain control.  It is for this reason you hear the phrase "Topping from the Bottom".  It is actually a poor phrase in that it would be more accurately stated as "Dominating from the Bottom"  one can also Submit from the Top as well.  My girls give very good blow jobs and massages.

Now... that you have my particular perspective of the labels.... I will address a couple of your comments.

I think it is important that a person doesn't make some universal assumptions of the personality of a person that likes to Dominate or submit.  Or a person that likes to recieve or give sensations.  A person of Weak character can be a Dominant or submissive or Top or Bottom... just as such a person can be a strong person.  All to often it is assumed that a submissive is weak and the dominant would be of strong character.  This is far from the case.  In fact, I have found that the weakest person claiming to be submissive are victims that are only prolonging their victimhood.  They are individuals that are looking to be rescued... looking for that white knight to fixed them and protect them from themselves.  A weak Dominant would be the abuser who actually preys on weaker character persons.  This is only two examples of a weak person that is either submissive or Dominant.  Another weak Dominant is one who is attempting to be more than he truly is... often they find themselves with a submissive that Dominates from the bottom. 

It is over simplfying to assume that submission for a strong woman would be a scary ideal/concept.  In fact, it might be the most enticing and easy path for them to choose... the hardest and biggest struggle would be the Dominant in a given relationship.  If the clothes don't fit... they don't tend to look so good on a person..... no matter what you do.  Wear the shoes that fit... and the walking becomes so much easier.

I do agree that Fear for many... regardless of orientation... holds a person back from realizing their inner nature.  I have also found that when such people allow their fears to inhibitant their inner nature... they struggle to find happiness.  It is not alot different than a person that attempts to walk in shoes that don't fit them.  Strong or weak in character, people will have fears.... managing those fears is something that some do better than others.  However, it has been my experience that individuals of stronger character do a better job dealing with the fears they face as compared to the weaker person.    The other aspect to consider... is the partner of these persons.  A strong submissive person that is involved with a weak dominant person will have fears that are more externally motivated than internal.  This person's hestiations might be more a concern and inner realization that their Dominant partner is not as strong in character as they would like.  The weaker submissive can find alot of confidence in the stronger Dominant partner... unfortuantely, they often have little confidence in themselves.   In those situations, the Dominant has to be very skilled in building the submissive's strength without making them co-dependent.  As I hope you begin to realize.. the issue is alot more complex that you seem to suggest in your post and the questions from the OP.  I believe you are making some basic assumptions of  "Submissive" and "Dominants"  instead of considering the label... maybe consider the character of the person involved in a givin dynamic.  Understanding those aspect will put a person farther ahead in navigating a given relationship that making assumptions of Submissives or Dominants.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to jackriddle)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Thought Provoking... - 4/16/2008 8:26:34 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Hi StormsSlave, thank you for your comments regarding my post.  I am glad you found it useful.  I did see one particular thing that you said in your answers as something I wanted to comment on:

quote:

ORIGINAL: StormsSlave
A slave, by definition, keeps their mouth shut and does what they are told.



While we don't all share the same definitions on these boards, I want to assure you I don't keep my mouth shut!  I do as I am told, yes, but I am told that it is required of me to share my thoughts, feelings, and opinions with him at all times.  I am required to be transparent to him, and that alone requires me to not keep my mouth shut.  There may be times when it inappropriate for me to speak, but he always wants me to voice my thoughts.

You are right - this is a thought provoking thread. :)

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Thought Provoking... - 4/16/2008 10:22:07 PM   
oblige


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LA, I have been off this forum for a year. (I have done some research here tho.)

I consistantly appreciate what you have to say,  and in the context fo the OP questions, this is just perfect and simple and wize. Thank you. ~oblige

_____________________________

"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far they can go." (TS Elliot)

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 29
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