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Coming to America - 4/23/2008 11:02:18 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Do you remember this movie with Eddie Murphy?  He's a prince in a small country and upon his 21st birthday he's presented with his future wife, a beautiful but relatively empty headed woman who's been raised from birth to marry the Prince.  When he asks her several questions about her preferences, she responds that her preferences are his.  Then he orders her to hop on one foot and bark like a dog, which she does dilligently and we see her still preforming this act as she hops out of his view.

Sometimes when I read some of the thoughts of others this scene comes into my mind, as well as the plot of the movie.  He's so put off by her lack of personality that he leaves for America to find a partner that he can be happy with.

I guess I wonder if this sort of person really appeals to any of the D-types that anyone has encountered as it sure seems like a mythical stereotype that some s-types feel they have to achieve and honestly, I've never felt that pure empty-headed obedience was ever what someone was looking for in me (then again, maybe those that wished it thought it was unobtainable with me-- smart D-types)

just some ramlings that have been bouncing around in my head....

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Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade
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RE: Coming to America - 4/23/2008 11:22:11 AM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		Why is there a prsumption that her response springs from emptiness?  What if, amid a thousand preferences, she set aside her will, that his will be done?  What if in that sense, slavery is a choice, not a response.  Does Eve say "my author and disposer, what thou bidd'st unargued I obey," out of paucity or plenty?  Why does she say "God is thy law, thou mine: to know no more is woman's happiest knowledge and her praise;" is it from empty-head or full heart?

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True masters, true subs and slaves, X many years in the lifestyle, Old Guard this and High Protocol that--it's like a convention of D&D nerds were allowed to have sex once, and they decided to make a religion out of it.

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RE: Coming to America - 4/23/2008 11:33:47 AM   
MladyHathor


Posts: 510
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline 		I think it exists alot more than we realize---" don't question, just do"--and there are those that would argue that is the defining difference between a slave and a sub.

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RE: Coming to America - 4/23/2008 1:39:27 PM   
Poetryinpain


Posts: 341
Joined: 3/20/2008
Status: offline 		I'm not sure. I confess that I do not understand the "anything he says, I do without question" attitude. Each person has his or her own take on the subject, but I cannot fathom that particular aspect of BDSM. I guess I'm too independent and too prone to question and want to know why I'm being asked to do something. And I guess that's why I will probably never be a slave.

pip, to each his or her own

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RE: Coming to America - 4/23/2008 2:51:06 PM   
Sundowner


Posts: 2549
Joined: 3/11/2007
Status: offline 		 


It's an attitude (very prevalent and perfectly normal and understandable) which nevertheless drives me up the wall.

I see no problem in a man wanting to give pleasure to a woman; nice idea. So the same for a dom and a sub, or a master and slave. In my case it's more needing to give pleasure in order to get my pleasure.

To achieve that one has to know what the girl wants (or needs). And I can understand the view of "I just want whatever gives you pleasure" from a girl, but it doesn't help me one bit. It can be as infuriating as asking someone whether they'd like tea or coffee and getting "whatever you like" in response.

And I'm with you OmegaG - it does seem like empty-headedness.

I prefer an indication of what's good for her; not topping from the bottom, not a structured play menu, just indicators. And then obedience is fine; very attractive. I've no problem having people do what I want and do it well and on my terms - as long as I know what I'm trying to achieve.

So I'm more with pip than Faramir on this.

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RE: Coming to America - 4/23/2008 3:03:32 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Two points here:

  1. The movie refered to has Eddy Murphy set as the Crown Prince of a Foreign Country where it appears that his wishes are her commands are based not only on his Royal Possition, but also on the culture of that country. I see all to often we in the EWestern World (no not just the US Folk) have this arrogant minf set that if we do not subscribe to something then it must be fromg and all foreigners are rong if their ways differ, without trying to understand other cultures and accepting them for what they are. It is the same attitude which drove Christian Missionaries to wreck havoc amongst indiginious people world wide and destroy many beautiful cultures.
  2. I agree with M'lady Hathor here. IUt has been my experience with slaves (not subs) that after the dust has settled and the slave finally has been collared and after the levels of trust needed are reached, Master's word and will are indeed her commands.
Iron Bear
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)

"I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)



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RE: Coming to America - 4/23/2008 3:59:13 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline 		I am a pet to the energy; a slave to its purpose.
 
As long as the purpose is true, it doesn’t matter a whole lot to me what I’m doing. Once the purpose is gone; so am I.
 
k

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There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

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RE: Coming to America - 4/23/2008 4:44:28 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		funny this thread comes up when it does, because just the other day someone (vanilla) was telling me that the way i spoke about my life reminded them of that particular scene in that movie. they of course intended it as an insult, but i took it as a compliment because that is the sort of slave i strive hard to be. my Master's will and desires are what truly matter, not any selfish desires of my own. Faramir is correct, one cannot assume lack of a mind or personality simply because a girl is unquestioningly and unfailingly obedient to her Master and focuses on his will first, second and third. perhaps that is how she had been trained, and you simply cannot see or know of the hard work and strength it took in order for her to reach that point in her submission.

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RE: Coming to America - 4/23/2008 4:58:23 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline 		~fr~

The passions of a slave to serve their owner in a, “your will is mine” fashion, is not difficult for me to understand.
 
I have to admit, however, I am confused as to the intentions of the owner whom wishes for this type of slave.
 
k

< Message edited by charmdpetKeira -- 4/23/2008 4:59:24 PM >

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Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

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RE: Coming to America - 4/23/2008 5:15:29 PM   
Skully7000


Posts: 377
Joined: 7/22/2007
Status: offline 		the example you bring forth is the part I like: she doesn't hesitate to hop or bark... the respect and grace and such of answering the questions...

the problem I have is in the questions he was asking before he made her bark and hop...


I forget the actually words but you get the idea here:
What is your favorite food: "whatever you like, Whatever you wish me to like"
What do you like to do: "whatever you want from me"
What do you feel like doing: "following your orders, fufilling your needs"
etc etc...

part of training my Sub/Slave is for them to know that if I am asking what they want: it is because I actually care what their preference is..and to deny me that answer is just bad as saying "No" when I give them a direct order.

If I want chineese we are going out to get chineese. If I ask what they feel like: they are receiving a gift. if they want pizza. I can still say no. pick something else. or I can give them several options to choose from. pick: Chineese, Taco bell, or Diner...

its maintaining the dominance while not having to dictate...I also greatly enjoy rewarding my S for their service.



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RE: Coming to America - 4/23/2008 5:16:49 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		I don't know if it appeals to d-types but it appeals to me.  I can't imagine any more austere of a discipline and for some reason I'm moved towards austerity.  Its like driving through the country on a cold winter's day passing by barren snow covered fields.  I'm glad I'm in the car and not out in the cold with nothing to protect me from the harsh winds.  But, I can't help but marvel at the landscape and wonder what it would be like to be stranded out there in the middle of nothingness.

Um...yeah...I dunno if it makes sense, but I'm pretty sure it's an unreachable ideal for me.  I don't have what it takes but I still admire it.

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RE: Coming to America - 4/23/2008 5:23:54 PM   
charmdpetKeira


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Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

I'm glad I'm in the car and not out in the cold with nothing to protect me from the harsh winds. 


It's like.... becoming the winds.
 
k

_____________________________

Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

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RE: Coming to America - 4/23/2008 5:42:24 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		BTW I really like this movie, it's a regular re-watching for me.

For her to be prepared to obey and belong in any situation he would be likely to ask for?  How many people do you know would have the strength, ability to adapt, and skill level in so many various areas to do that?

To be empty can be a divine place- ready for fulfillment.

There is a time for empty and a time for fullness.

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Coming to America - 4/23/2008 5:57:30 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

BTW I really like this movie, it's a regular re-watching for me.

For her to be prepared to obey and belong in any situation he would be likely to ask for?  How many people do you know would have the strength, ability to adapt, and skill level in so many various areas to do that?

To be empty can be a divine place- ready for fulfillment.

There is a time for empty and a time for fullness.


Yes, very good points.
 
I suspect that it is because in that scene, I perceived him as having her do those things in an attempt to humiliate her, that causes me to ask.
 
Humility, I could do all day long.
 
However, I sense that if I was expected to truly believe I was to feel humiliated, it is a place I might not be able to come back from.
 
To me, it feels like failure, and since I don’t believe one has failed until they give up; it implies to me that I should give up.
 
Interesting…
 
Thank you, LA
 
k

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Life is tough, that does not mean it isn't fair.

There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

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RE: Coming to America - 4/23/2008 6:21:38 PM   
HerLord


Posts: 697
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

Why is there a prsumption that her response springs from emptiness?  What if, amid a thousand preferences, she set aside her will, that his will be done?  What if in that sense, slavery is a choice, not a response.  Does Eve say "my author and disposer, what thou bidd'st unargued I obey," out of paucity or plenty?  Why does she say "God is thy law, thou mine: to know no more is woman's happiest knowledge and her praise;" is it from empty-head or full heart?


I love this, and the siggy... just HAD to say so.

As for OP... Omega, I know that there has been an absense of something to contribute to here on the forums of late. It does seem to come in waves. This post... NOT a wave starter. But since it is you, and we ALL love you, I will see if I can contribute.

I have seen the flick. MANY moons ago. I do not specifically recall the scene but can imagine the descriptive scenario. I have seen such behavior. Not that I would ever call it empty headed, but those who react with out thought have one of a few things going for them.

1. a pure level of instictual trust in the order giver.
2. an absolute mentallity, that they are to obey with out question for it is the best that their "leader/top/dom.me..." has to offer and thier orders are to be followed to a tee, simply because this is thier plot in life in thier dynamic.
3. a desire to not have to be responsible the well being of others and hence following instructions is what they do.

I am not real sure how many of these I could conjure... but i have at least fifteen more I am too lazy to type out.

The most important one being.

100. They want to.

So with as little as it was, and as benign as it is, it is my post.

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RE: Coming to America - 4/23/2008 9:00:46 PM   
chaosforge


Posts: 397
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: The Abyss
Status: offline 		i was 4 when that movie came out. The prince wanted something different, something of his own choosing and love. But i wonder if early exposure to this movie and others similar, might have been the reason it took so long for me to find peace with myself about being a slave. or maybe i should say allowing myself to be at peace, dispite the consant social conditioning that women must be strong and assertive and and not slaves... -just phoenix

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Chaosforge
All begins in chaos and all will end in chaos.
I am that which has always been and will always be.
CHAOS !!!

I am Legion, for we are many.

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RE: Coming to America - 4/23/2008 9:11:29 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		In Zen, it takes an empty mind. 
Slavery can be Zen like. 

As much as things are not always what they appear, the whole hop on one foot and bark like a dog thing was kinda hot in an empty headed ditz kinda' way.  I liked that movie and despite my comments above, I did not think she had a Zen mind.

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I give good thread.

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RE: Coming to America - 4/24/2008 7:13:02 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

In Zen, it takes an empty mind. 
Slavery can be Zen like. 

As much as things are not always what they appear, the whole hop on one foot and bark like a dog thing was kinda hot in an empty headed ditz kinda' way.  I liked that movie and despite my comments above, I did not think she had a Zen mind.


Zen is good.  Would I hop up and down and bark like a dog if m'Lord asked now, yeah.  Would I have done it within minutes of meeting him?  Not bloody likely.

And sure there are times when he asks what I feel like eating and I have no preference, but he knows that it's not becuase I really have no preference, that it's just a moment of apathy.

In the movie when he asked her to hop and bark, I didn't get the feeling that he did it to humiliate her, but that he was trying to find some spark of personality or will within her.

_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

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RE: Coming to America - 4/24/2008 8:11:25 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

In the movie when he asked her to hop and bark, I didn't get the feeling that he did it to humiliate her, but that he was trying to find some spark of personality or will within her.


I thought he was testing her mettle too. 

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-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

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RE: Coming to America - 4/24/2008 8:49:09 AM   
Poetryinpain


Posts: 341
Joined: 3/20/2008
Status: offline 		My take on that whole scene was that the woman had been bred and raised to be his slave-wife. She had been indoctrinated from birth that this was her role. Any spark of individuality had been ruthlessly stomped out. She was a doll with a pulse, so to speak.

pip, definitely not a wind-up toy

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There is none so blind as he who will not see.

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