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Consent and agreement - 4/23/2008 1:12:22 PM

stella41b

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Are these two the same? Or can there be a difference between consent and agreement in a relationship?

I've just come back from a rehearsal with my actors working on a play about BDSM. One of the actors made the point that a D/s or BDSM type relationship differs from a conventional 'vanilla' type relationship. This we know. He suggested that the main difference is that a D/s or BDSM relationship is more definite in its structure and boundaries generally speaking than a conventional 'vanilla' type relationship. He claims that a D/s or BDSM relationship although generally based on one partner being dominant is more liberal in some ways than a conventional 'vanilla' type relationship.

What are your thoughts here?

< Message edited by stella41b -- 4/23/2008 1:14:10 PM >

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/23/2008 1:25:08 PM

metalmiss

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"Agreement" is not a term that even comes into Our relationship.. i gave Him my consent within a Master/slave TPE dynamic, therefore there is no need for agreement of any kind within that.

In my opinion "agreement" is something that would more apply to a submissive/Dominant dynamic where the focus is more tolerant of negotiation.

i'm not sure as far as D/s orientated couples being more "liberal".. i have met plenty of vanilla couples who i would consider liberal in their own ways. In my opinion it seems to be that the majority "vanilla" people out there are repressed about their sexuality/sensuality to some extent or another.

< Message edited by metalmiss -- 4/23/2008 1:33:36 PM >

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/23/2008 1:55:49 PM

Archer

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Well I have seen agreements used inside D/s relationships but in a different manner than consent.
The way I have most often seen it used is D type issues an order with specific requirements and time limits, the slave either agrees that the order is achievable or provides information they believe will interfere and asks for clarification. When any such discussion is completed then an agrement has been reached. and the order is expected to be fullfilled.
Order= "Bring me my glasses"
Acknowledgement of order and agreement= Yes Ma'am

Order= Pick up my laundry from the cleaners today
Reply= Sir you have me assigned from last week 6 things requireing a total of 10 hours for today, How do you want me to prioritize this new assignment?
Clarification= Laundry takes precedence over X and Z but not Y.
Agreement= Yes Sir

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/23/2008 2:05:35 PM

SteelofUtah

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No they aren't the same DUH!!!

They're even spelled differently.

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/23/2008 4:02:11 PM

DesFIP

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Considering how some M/s relationships are described, I wouldn't consider them liberal.

But possibly I don't understand how you meant that. Care to expand on it a bit?

As far as consent and agree goes, I can consent to him making a decision while disagreeing with his ideas and plans. If it isn't that important to me, I just wouldn't make much of a fuss about it. That weird mint chocolate chip fudge brownie ice cream he picked comes to mind. It sure didn't get my vote but I consented to get it. I didn't consent to eat any a second time though, I ate the berry swirl we had a little left of.

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/23/2008 4:03:09 PM

LeatherBentOne

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Agreement is reached during negotiation. Consent is to allow what is agreed upon to happen.

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/23/2008 5:37:35 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Agreement is an understanding. Consent is a form of agreement to some future possible action.

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/23/2008 6:45:57 PM

MastrVran

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

Are these two the same? Or can there be a difference between consent and agreement in a relationship?

Lol..there is a huge difference between agreement and consent. You can agree that something is disgusting and you would never want to do it. Yet because you consented to submit and do anything required of you, when told to do this, you do it. Agreement is never required in order to have consent. You do not even have to ask for an opinion. Their agreement or disagreement is not something that really matters about a lot of things. So long as consent has been given that you will obey anything required of you.

On a totally different point, if you strongly disagree with something, there is always a possibility that it could lead to your withdrawing consent. Of course that, also leads to some serious relationship changes usually.

One of the reasons that finding someone who thinks pretty much like you do as far as limits and things is a pretty reasonable idea.

quote:

I've just come back from a rehearsal with my actors working on a play about BDSM. One of the actors made the point that a D/s or BDSM type relationship differs from a conventional 'vanilla' type relationship. This we know. He suggested that the main difference is that a D/s or BDSM relationship is more definite in its structure and boundaries generally speaking than a conventional 'vanilla' type relationship.

Well the simple fact that in D/s M/s relationships, the roles are pretty defined, and often in a vanilla relationship, since its considered that everyone is the same, they have a number of issues that have to be decided as they come up rather than having most of them worked out and understood going in.

quote:

He claims that a D/s or BDSM relationship although generally based on one partner being dominant is more liberal in some ways than a conventional 'vanilla' type relationship.

What are your thoughts here?

By Liberal do you mean freeing? Or what exactly? Knowing your place in any relationship makes things much easier for most people.

MV

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/23/2008 9:32:28 PM

stella41b

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quote:

ORIGINAL: metalmiss

"Agreement" is not a term that even comes into Our relationship.. i gave Him my consent within a Master/slave TPE dynamic, therefore there is no need for agreement of any kind within that.

In my opinion "agreement" is something that would more apply to a submissive/Dominant dynamic where the focus is more tolerant of negotiation.

i'm not sure as far as D/s orientated couples being more "liberal".. i have met plenty of vanilla couples who i would consider liberal in their own ways. In my opinion it seems to be that the majority "vanilla" people out there are repressed about their sexuality/sensuality to some extent or another.

Thank you for your insight here..But would that 'repression' in vanilla couples extend to their social contacts?

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/23/2008 9:42:20 PM

stella41b

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Considering how some M/s relationships are described, I wouldn't consider them liberal.

But possibly I don't understand how you meant that. Care to expand on it a bit?

As far as consent and agree goes, I can consent to him making a decision while disagreeing with his ideas and plans. If it isn't that important to me, I just wouldn't make much of a fuss about it. That weird mint chocolate chip fudge brownie ice cream he picked comes to mind. It sure didn't get my vote but I consented to get it. I didn't consent to eat any a second time though, I ate the berry swirl we had a little left of.

Would not people in an M/s relationship perhaps have a more openminded and tolerant perception of other people (outside their relationship) than say a vanilla couple? I realise that not always we should generalize but I'm taking a straw poll here.

I could have given my own opinions to the actor, but felt that he had made such a valid point and the information he (together with other members of the cast) wanted needed a better response than I felt myself able to give, which is why I posted my OP here.

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/23/2008 9:49:05 PM

stella41b

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I thank everyone who's posted so far.. it's helping and providing some useful insights.. Normally I guess this wouldn't be an issue but in presenting such a relationship or dynamic on a stage I realise I'm leaving it open to be looked upon and examined critically by different people. It's a vanilla cast and what we're looking to do is examine that border area between 'BDSM' and 'vanilla' and trying to avoid falling into any sort of stereotype.

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/24/2008 4:28:15 AM

Dnomyar

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If you agree to have sex or you consent to have sex whats the difference. Your still having sex just the same.

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/24/2008 8:21:58 AM

softness

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for me and my life ... agreement and consent are different things

effectively .... I have consented to neither agree nor disagree .. but simply to obey.

my agreement is an optional added extra.

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/24/2008 8:42:53 AM

chellekitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

I thank everyone who's posted so far.. it's helping and providing some useful insights.. Normally I guess this wouldn't be an issue but in presenting such a relationship or dynamic on a stage I realise I'm leaving it open to be looked upon and examined critically by different people. It's a vanilla cast and what we're looking to do is examine that border area between 'BDSM' and 'vanilla' and trying to avoid falling into any sort of stereotype.

the reality of people who engage in BDSM and have D/s or M/s relationships is that they don't live life that much differently than "vanilla" people, in fact i believe that one of your actors had it absolutely correct, people that do this have more defined structure and boundaries and terms...

people get in a big hissy about lables, but then lable themselves with terms that if i told certain people that they were *this* they too would throw a fit, even though i think it's a good thing...like Dominant and submissive...

Dominant in a relationship simply means you aren't submissive in that relationship, you have a defined structure and boundaries, and in turn actions and duties (defined by you, not a group or a society or a council or a pope of rope, though with a general similarity or else you would be something else) that until you stop being "the Dominant" and the same goes for any number of lables that you choose the definition of...

and it's not that unusual to choose the specifics of a definition...i am a musician yet i cannot play a single instrument...however, you get me in front of people and there is someone else playing an instrument and i can and have stopped crowds...

did that make sense? help?

good luck
chelle

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/24/2008 8:44:51 AM

Poetryinpain

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`

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

If you agree to have sex or you consent to have sex whats the difference. Your still having sex just the same.

Agreeing indicates an equal desire for sex. Consenting indicates a lesser desire than the partner.

I just love it when Judge Judy tells a litigant that they don't need to agree with her, they just need to abide by her decisions (by signing paperwork ahead of time, they consent to her authority).

pip, my take on it

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/24/2008 8:46:10 AM

MistressNoName

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Hi stella,

You pose some interesting questions. As to your original question, consent vs. agreement, I agree with others who are pointing out that consenting to do a thing does not necessarily mean you also agree with it. Esp when you start getting into the area of Mastery and slavery vs. Dominant/submissive relationships. For instance, I know a slave who has an imposed bed time of 10 pm...and we are not talking a Daddy/girl,baby dynamic...strictly M/s. As a slave, she consents to this directive...because that's what she signed on for...but as an adult, she disagrees with having to go to bed at 10pm every night . Nevertheless, she does it.

As for this question:

quote:

Would not people in an M/s relationship perhaps have a more openminded and tolerant perception of other people (outside their relationship) than say a vanilla couple? I realise that not always we should generalize but I'm taking a straw poll here.

I'm still not entirely sure what it is you're trying to get at, but from what I have seen and experienced within the Leather community here in NYC, I would have to say, not necessarily. I've met plenty of people who have lacked tolerance and who harbor misunderstandings toward different groups of people within the community. I'm talking about hets who are not so tolerant of gays/bis/lesbians and vice-versa...and lgb people who don't get trannies and a whole host of folks who cannot tolerate cross-dressers or adult babies...And so many ppl find it difficult to wrap their brains around those who are intersexed...and let's not even talk about what people think about switches! On top of that, there is still so much ethnic and cultural intolerance running around...I've yet to go to an event and see a real representation of culturally different people attending - where are all the kinky blacks, latinos, asians, native peoples??...I'm talking NYC here, folks. And I've NEVER, EVER seen a deaf or blind leather person show up at any major event I've been to...and I know they are out there and I also realize my exposure to the scene has been limited...but still...intolerance and segregation abounds. But that's what I've seen here...not sure how things are in your neck of the woods.

MNN

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/24/2008 8:53:17 AM

Dnomyar

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Poetry we are talking about me here. I can see me wanting it to a lesser degree but not the women.

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/24/2008 8:58:54 AM

Poetryinpain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Poetry we are talking about me here. I can see me wanting it to a lesser degree but not the women.

Ah. I get it now. Ha.

pip, a little slow on the uptake this early in the morning

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/24/2008 9:19:51 AM

metalmiss

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
Thank you for your insight here..But would that 'repression' in vanilla couples extend to their social contacts?

In my opinion yes it would extend to their social contacts because they wouldn't knowingly associate with somebody who's actions went outside the box of what they consider to be acceptable.

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RE: Consent and agreement - 4/24/2008 4:10:45 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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By working actively to avoid stereotypes, you are only reinforcing them. Other people pressing stereotypes onto you is their problem. You can try and be subtle about it, parse it into their language, but really, they will project what they want no matter what you do. So just be you and show that whatever stereotypes you may fit into, you're cool happy people who are good to get along with. That's what matters.

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