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RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/27/2008 6:13:47 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

compassion and grace


Not two of Scalia's strong points.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/27/2008 6:17:27 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

compassion and grace


Not two of Scalia's strong points.


It's sad that we have such a complete cock sucking A-hole representing the highest court of the land. It says much about the disregard and spite that conservatives have for those that oppose their decisions.

"get over it" should be their new motto.


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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/27/2008 7:13:17 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

compassion and grace


Not two of Scalia's strong points.


It's sad that we have such a complete cock sucking A-hole representing the highest court of the land. It says much about the disregard and spite that conservatives have for those that oppose their decisions.

"get over it" should be their new motto.



Oh yeah...

Like it's any better than "move on"?

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/27/2008 8:06:49 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

compassion and grace


Not two of Scalia's strong points.


It's sad that we have such a complete cock sucking A-hole representing the highest court of the land. It says much about the disregard and spite that conservatives have for those that oppose their decisions.

"get over it" should be their new motto.



Oh yeah...

Like it's any better than "move on"?


Touche.

I guess it depends on whose ox is being Gored.   (pun intended).

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/28/2008 11:02:11 AM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

compassion and grace


Not two of Scalia's strong points.


It's sad that we have such a complete cock sucking A-hole representing the highest court of the land. It says much about the disregard and spite that conservatives have for those that oppose their decisions.

"get over it" should be their new motto.



Oh yeah...

Like it's any better than "move on"?


Horrible analogy...You seem to have trouble staying on point....MoveOn is a political organization that has raised millions for Dem candidates.

Scalia is a Supreme Court Justice....Actually I am the one that is mistaken....You are correct...The Supreme Court and MoveOn are now both Political organizations it's just that MoveOn has made it public....You have to be able to reason and to be able to think outside of the box to see that many of the Supreme's Courts decisions fall straight down political lines.

Good point. Touche...Scalia is a cocksucker. If he thought that there was a way to outlaw flag burning he would have...He is wise enought to realize that the public isn't just quite ready to allow all of their freedoms to be removed as of this date. Just wait a few years....This scared and frightened U.S. population will allow themselves to be manipulated in ways yet unimaginable...It's just a matter of time.

It would be nice if the Supreme Court would consider mailing out rolled up facsimiles of the Constitution so we could all practice deep throating it.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/07/02/scotus.review/index.html

"The numbers tell the story: Of the 72 cases decided since October, fully a third were decided by 5-4 votes. Compare that with the previous session, when only 15 percent of the cases in the previous term were decided by one-vote margins. And, while 45 percent of the cases in the previous term were unanimous, only a quarter were so easily resolved this term."


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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/28/2008 2:33:52 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


Horrible analogy...You seem to have trouble staying on point....MoveOn is a political organization that has raised millions for Dem candidates.

Scalia is a Supreme Court Justice....Actually I am the one that is mistaken....You are correct...The Supreme Court and MoveOn are now both Political organizations it's just that MoveOn has made it public....You have to be able to reason and to be able to think outside of the box to see that many of the Supreme's Courts decisions fall straight down political lines.

Good point. Touche...Scalia is a cocksucker. If he thought that there was a way to outlaw flag burning he would have...He is wise enought to realize that the public isn't just quite ready to allow all of their freedoms to be removed as of this date. Just wait a few years....This scared and frightened U.S. population will allow themselves to be manipulated in ways yet unimaginable...It's just a matter of time.

It would be nice if the Supreme Court would consider mailing out rolled up facsimiles of the Constitution so we could all practice deep throating it.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/07/02/scotus.review/index.html

"The numbers tell the story: Of the 72 cases decided since October, fully a third were decided by 5-4 votes. Compare that with the previous session, when only 15 percent of the cases in the previous term were decided by one-vote margins. And, while 45 percent of the cases in the previous term were unanimous, only a quarter were so easily resolved this term."



You are kidding right?

The Supreme Courts decisions have always been "political".

The problem you and your choir (gee, I like that concept here on the forums!  ) have is that the side of the political equation that their decisions are coming down on, isn't the side you prefer.  Therefore you scream "bias" and "politics".  Your ox is being Gored for a change.

For decades the "right" has screamed the same thing, before we got the balance of the court back.

Can't you recognize this?  Or are you really so blind to your ideology?

Firm

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Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/28/2008 2:38:12 PM   
LadyEllen


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How can the judiciary function as a control on government, if they are permitted to belong to political parties who might form the government?

I'm not sure, but I believe that in the UK, if youre anything from a police officer on up to a judge, youre forbidden political party membership to prevent partisanship entering into the system.

E

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RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/28/2008 3:27:23 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

How can the judiciary function as a control on government, if they are permitted to belong to political parties who might form the government?

I'm not sure, but I believe that in the UK, if youre anything from a police officer on up to a judge, youre forbidden political party membership to prevent partisanship entering into the system.

E


I didn't say they were active members of a political party.

I'm sure that domi et al will try to make the argument that the US Supreme Court always has been, or should be, insulated from politics.  My point is that - as part of the government - the US Supreme Court is - by definition - a political entity. One of the three co-equal branches, in fact.

Generally, it's not about party identification of the Justices, it's about their political philosophy.  Some of the worst "offenders" of the Court from a conservative's point of view were appointed by Republican presidents.  Scalia generally is seen as a Justice with a conservative political bent, and therefore all his decisions are derided by those who disagree with his basic political philosophy.  

If I reversed their point of view, I'd be rhetorically crushing Ruth Ginsberg and John Paul Stevens for their "political motivated" left-leaning dissent against the majority decision in Bush v Gore.

Some people simply can't accept that anyone else could have a valid point of view that doesn't agree with their opinion, however. 

I can. 

I didn't agree with Ginsberg and Stevens, but I honor that they are coming from an honest place in their beliefs.  "Conservatives" generally are willing to give that benefit of the doubt to dissenters.  "Lefties" generally aren't.

Firm


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Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/28/2008 3:47:42 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

How can the judiciary function as a control on government, if they are permitted to belong to political parties who might form the government?

I'm not sure, but I believe that in the UK, if youre anything from a police officer on up to a judge, youre forbidden political party membership to prevent partisanship entering into the system.

E


Not belonging to a party doesn't remove one's partisan views from existing

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/28/2008 4:46:48 PM   
cjan


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Firm, I actually hold Scalia and his intellect in high regard. I think his views re the Constitution not being a "living" document, but, rather a "dead" one in the sense that the Constitution should not reflect changing socio/political values is valid and necessary in our unique experiment in democracy ,and the balance of power between co-equal branches of government affords. I agrre with him also that the appropriate vehicle for our societies changes in values is the legislative branch of government.

The point at which I disagree with Scalia is that I believe that the Supremes' Bush v Gore decision was an usurpation of power that rightly belonged to the Florida legislature and it's Supreme Court. The Florida legislature was, in 2000 , and remains, firmly in Republican hands. I have no doubt that, if the Supremes had not intervened in the Bush v Gore matter, that the Florida legislature would have found a way to hand Bush the Florida electoral votes itself. However, then Floridians would have had the opportunity, if they wished to exercise it, to vote the cocksuking whores out of office. An opportunity that "we the people" don't have with the Supremes.


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" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/28/2008 4:55:01 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

How can the judiciary function as a control on government, if they are permitted to belong to political parties who might form the government?

I'm not sure, but I believe that in the UK, if youre anything from a police officer on up to a judge, youre forbidden political party membership to prevent partisanship entering into the system.

E


Which is very nice in theory but I am sure those judges and police have personal political opinions. What does it matter if you are registered to a particular political party on paper? A police or a judge that votes Labour every election but claims to be non-partisan is I think is counter-productive. At least in the US we know where our judges political biases stand partly by party membership. Although remember you arnt bound by your party. Being a member of a party just signals an agreement with a broad ideology. It doesnt mean you follow that party off the edge of a cliff.

Everyone has a political bias. They may lean more conservative, more liberal, more libertarian, more authoritarian, etc....

< Message edited by cyberdude611 -- 4/28/2008 4:56:29 PM >

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/28/2008 5:22:12 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/07/02/scotus.review/index.html

"The numbers tell the story: Of the 72 cases decided since October, fully a third were decided by 5-4 votes. Compare that with the previous session, when only 15 percent of the cases in the previous term were decided by one-vote margins. And, while 45 percent of the cases in the previous term were unanimous, only a quarter were so easily resolved this term."
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


Horrible analogy...You seem to have trouble staying on point....MoveOn is a political organization that has raised millions for Dem candidates.

Scalia is a Supreme Court Justice....Actually I am the one that is mistaken....You are correct...The Supreme Court and MoveOn are now both Political organizations it's just that MoveOn has made it public....You have to be able to reason and to be able to think outside of the box to see that many of the Supreme's Courts decisions fall straight down political lines.

Good point. Touche...Scalia is a cocksucker. If he thought that there was a way to outlaw flag burning he would have...He is wise enought to realize that the public isn't just quite ready to allow all of their freedoms to be removed as of this date. Just wait a few years....This scared and frightened U.S. population will allow themselves to be manipulated in ways yet unimaginable...It's just a matter of time.

It would be nice if the Supreme Court would consider mailing out rolled up facsimiles of the Constitution so we could all practice deep throating it.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/07/02/scotus.review/index.html

"The numbers tell the story: Of the 72 cases decided since October, fully a third were decided by 5-4 votes. Compare that with the previous session, when only 15 percent of the cases in the previous term were decided by one-vote margins. And, while 45 percent of the cases in the previous term were unanimous, only a quarter were so easily resolved this term."



You are kidding right?

The Supreme Courts decisions have always been "political".

The problem you and your choir (gee, I like that concept here on the forums!  ) have is that the side of the political equation that their decisions are coming down on, isn't the side you prefer.  Therefore you scream "bias" and "politics".  Your ox is being Gored for a change.

For decades the "right" has screamed the same thing, before we got the balance of the court back.

Can't you recognize this?  Or are you really so blind to your ideology?

Firm


Here you go Firmy....My question to you is "Can you read?"

"The numbers tell the story: Of the 72 cases decided since October, fully a third were decided by 5-4 votes. Compare that with the previous session, when only 15 percent of the cases in the previous term were decided by one-vote margins. And, while 45 percent of the cases in the previous term were unanimous, only a quarter were so easily resolved this term."

Obviously something has changed.  Where before we had more unanimous decisions. less one vote margins... It has become  more political than ever before. 

It's a shame you are unable to see this as a distinct possibility.  The times they are a changing. Conservatives are different than their liberal counterparts...Thye are really starting to exercise their muscle.  They are not apologetic and they believe that they are right with a certain air of moral smugness and an overall condescending attitude.

We have just begun to see the tip of this iceberg if things do not begin to change rather soon and decisively.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 4/28/2008 5:23:28 PM >


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RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/28/2008 5:28:30 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

Firm, I actually hold Scalia and his intellect in high regard. I think his views re the Constitution not being a "living" document, but, rather a "dead" one in the sense that the Constitution should not reflect changing socio/political values is valid and necessary in our unique experiment in democracy ,and the balance of power between co-equal branches of government affords. I agrre with him also that the appropriate vehicle for our societies changes in values is the legislative branch of government.

I too am a strict constructionist, although it does present problems from time to time, I think it is the best way to defend our freedoms in the long run.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

The point at which I disagree with Scalia is that I believe that the Supremes' Bush v Gore decision was an usurpation of power that rightly belonged to the Florida legislature and it's Supreme Court. The Florida legislature was, in 2000 , and remains, firmly in Republican hands. I have no doubt that, if the Supremes had not intervened in the Bush v Gore matter, that the Florida legislature would have found a way to hand Bush the Florida electoral votes itself. However, then Floridians would have had the opportunity, if they wished to exercise it, to vote the cocksuking whores out of office. An opportunity that "we the people" don't have with the Supremes.


I can see your point of view.  It is a valid concern.  Even the Supreme Court was concerned about this very issue.

But, at the end of the day, they had to make a decision about how the mess in Florida would effect the rest of the US.  In effect, allowing the Florida Courts to decide the results of the national election - especially when the majority of the Supreme Court did indeed see Constitutional issues at stake - wasn't something that they were prepared to do.

They disagreed with you, and others who supported your position, but also realized that their acceptance of, and the limited time frame required for a decision could create a bad precedence (think Dred Scott), so made the unusual move to say that no lasting precedence was granted.

Of course, this decision itself gave those who disagreed with them a tool to argue that the entire acceptance and result was illegitimate.

But they get paid to make the hard decisions - and they made it.  For this, regardless of what one feels about the actual decision, I believe they merit honor.

Again - I understand your position and beliefs.  They do indeed have strength.  However, I believe, in the balance, less damage was done by the action of the Court, than by a decision to return the issue to the Florida Courts.

Reasonable men may disagee, without being disagreeable.

Firm


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Some people are just idiots.

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/28/2008 5:28:41 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

They are not apologetic and they believe that they are right with a certain air of moral smugness and an overall condescending attitude.


DG, I see this on both sides, and to be honest, I see it more from the left. Not a lot more, but enough for it to make an impression on me.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/28/2008 5:43:06 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Here you go Firmy....My question to you is "Can you read?"

I think I could reasonably ask you the same question, domi.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

"The numbers tell the story: Of the 72 cases decided since October, fully a third were decided by 5-4 votes. Compare that with the previous session, when only 15 percent of the cases in the previous term were decided by one-vote margins. And, while 45 percent of the cases in the previous term were unanimous, only a quarter were so easily resolved this term."

Obviously something has changed.  Where before we had more unanimous decisions. less one vote margins... It has become  more political than ever before.

No, it's always been political, as I said.

Accepting your numbers (I'll grant you their accuracy without checking), perhaps the difference is that two additional Justices with "conservative" or strict constructionist view are now on the Court, finally, finally giving some needed balance?

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

It's a shame you are unable to see this as a distinct possibility.  The times they are a changing. Conservatives are different than their liberal counterparts...Thye are really starting to exercise their muscle.  They are not apologetic and they believe that they are right with a certain air of moral smugness and an overall condescending attitude.

We have just begun to see the tip of this iceberg if things do not begin to change rather soon and decisively.

uhhh ... talk about  non sequiturs.

You seem to believe that "liberals" don't have a "certain air of moral smugness and an overall condescending attitude" themselves ... I suspect simply because you share their political philosophy.

But from here ... there is nothing more smug than a self-righteous "liberal". 

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/28/2008 5:54:17 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

They are not apologetic and they believe that they are right with a certain air of moral smugness and an overall condescending attitude.


DG, I see this on both sides, and to be honest, I see it more from the left. Not a lot more, but enough for it to make an impression on me.


Level, I agree that it obviously happens on both sides of the aisle.  What you haven't seen in the past is the brashness that is now the political soup dujour.  

Yopu have to remember that the conservative coalition is much different than those grouped to gether as being liberal....What does it mean to be under the liberal tent?  Are you gay, a minority, poor, or do your values simply place you on the "left side of things?  What one group agrees on another group might oppose or have no specific direct agenda. There is not a sense of cohesion  when you think about the makeup of the left.

Now look at the Conservatives...They are mobilized, unified predominately white, Christian,thay have a much more honed view of what they want.  Their concept of America is one that panders and caters directly to their belief system.






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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Scalia says "get over it" in regards to 2... - 4/28/2008 6:36:47 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

They are not apologetic and they believe that they are right with a certain air of moral smugness and an overall condescending attitude.


DG, I see this on both sides, and to be honest, I see it more from the left. Not a lot more, but enough for it to make an impression on me.


Level, I agree that it obviously happens on both sides of the aisle.  What you haven't seen in the past is the brashness that is now the political soup dujour.  

Yopu have to remember that the conservative coalition is much different than those grouped to gether as being liberal....What does it mean to be under the liberal tent?  Are you gay, a minority, poor, or do your values simply place you on the "left side of things?  What one group agrees on another group might oppose or have no specific direct agenda. There is not a sense of cohesion  when you think about the makeup of the left.

Now look at the Conservatives...They are mobilized, unified predominately white, Christian,thay have a much more honed view of what they want.  Their concept of America is one that panders and caters directly to their belief system.







The dichotomy is not left/right.

It`s rich/powerful/connected vs the rest of us ,the middle class/working class and poor.

Every single time the court case was corporate vs. consumer,they voted corporate.

If the the case was management vs labor,they voted against labor.

If the case was clean air/water vs polluters,they voted in favor of the polluters.

If the case was patients vs insurance companies,they voted against patients interests.

They`ve been a rubber stamp for the Bush administration and have let them run amok.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As far as Scalia`s comment goes,he was just trying to weasel out of explaining what he did or how it made sense.Because it doesn`t make sense.

The fact that they pronounced that this was a "one time only decision" and was "not to set precedent" indicates that they have no intellectual integrity.

Scalia is mocking us and telling us to piss off.

Just who the fuck does he work for?He`s supposed to protect the constitution and apply the law equally.Not play favorites or make special "one time only" laws.

I think the only reason Firm likes the decision, is that it went his way.He knows it wasn`t fair and can`t explain or make sense of the decision in legal or logical terms.He seems to be basically saying "we won,you lost,ha-ha".

Not much meat on that bone.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/28/2008 8:11:21 PM >

(in reply to domiguy)
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