Submissive/Slave?

Submissive/Slave? (Full Version)

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WelshGuyUk -> Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 5:26:09 PM)
Hey, I would call my self a newbie when it comes to actually understanding the "difference" between the two. I have asked around what is different between a slave and submissive. And for the most common response is the slave has no choice, but a submissive does. But then I argue, that it's their " choice " to have no choice. So surely thats not the actual reason to use the term slave for some means, and submissive for other means. What is the difference exactly? Why do some doms want slaves not submissives and vice versa? Why do some "bottoms" claim they are submissive or slave? There must be a major difference for people to know which one they are looking for or wanting to be? Right ?

Leatherist -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 5:28:02 PM)
A slave wear the fuzzy bunny slippers because the master wants her to. A sub thinks about doing it first. So there.

batshalom -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 5:33:56 PM)
Ask 100 people, get 100 different answers. It's not clear-cut and means different things to different people. You can use the search function to find copious threads about this very topic.

WelshGuyUk -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 5:37:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: batshalom Ask 100 people, get 100 different answers. It's not clear-cut and means different things to different people. You can use the search function to find copious threads about this very topic. Yeah, that was the thing 100 different answers, but then how should I differentiate the two lol! It would be impossible for me to know which one I want if each time the same meaning could be something totally different. I get alot of older dom's being intimidating on me asking if I know the difference, and never have a clear cut answer, which makes their point proved more. Frustating to say the least.

Level -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 5:38:17 PM)
Oy, now I'm the one cringing. [:D]

Prinsexx -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 5:39:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WelshGuyUk Hey, I would call my self a newbie when it comes to actually understanding the "difference" between the two. I have asked around what is different between a slave and submissive. And for the most common response is the slave has no choice, but a submissive does. But then I argue, that it's their " choice " to have no choice. So surely thats not the actual reason to use the term slave for some means, and submissive for other means. What is the difference exactly? Why do some doms want slaves not submissives and vice versa? Why do some "bottoms" claim they are submissive or slave? There must be a major difference for people to know which one they are looking for or wanting to be? Right ? I'm a slave. No one in their right mind would want to be me. Right?

Level -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 5:40:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WelshGuyUk quote: ORIGINAL: batshalom Ask 100 people, get 100 different answers. It's not clear-cut and means different things to different people. You can use the search function to find copious threads about this very topic. Yeah, that was the thing 100 different answers, but then how should I differentiate the two lol! It would be impossible for me to know which one I want if each time the same meaning could be something totally different. Sit down and decide what you want in a partner. Get out and meet folks. Find one (or two, or ten) that you hit it off with. Start finding out if they "fit" into what you want. Don't worry too much about what labels are used. You won't fall in love, or lust, with a label.

batshalom -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 5:48:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WelshGuyUk Yeah, that was the thing 100 different answers, but then how should I differentiate the two lol! It would be impossible for me to know which one I want if each time the same meaning could be something totally different. Call yourself a purple velvet monkey if you want. ~shrug~ it makes no difference. As long as you find a dynamic that is comfortable for you, then whether you are a sub, a slave, or a desk chair is of no consequence. Find compatibility.

petpete -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 5:54:11 PM)
i will agree with batshalom. She is always very wise with her answers not wanting to discount Leatheris ofcourse but batshalom has helped me with a good answer on a confusing time of my learning experience. WelshGuyUk i was making the same questions until i realized that there is and are no set rules of what each others perceptions are about the whole lifestyle. If you meet someone that is fine with the name you wish to be called then its all fine with everyone. As Leatherist said truly the two names give a distinction to the limitations that the individuals have. So i would have to say that the submissive tends to think before he gets into what his told to do, and the slave will jump the cliff if his told to..... (or is it??). From my own perception a submissive maybe lets say a creature that may need taming.... (convincing). Were the "slave" has already been there done that and ready for it (perception). i would still like to think that people do have some thought and trust to what they would be doing but as to any case of relationship issues get to know your partner or partners well before engaging in anything and take it from there of what names and distinguishes can be labeled. You may see things different from the inside then the confusing outside.

softness -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 6:25:21 PM)
as a slave I consent to everything He wishes..reserving only my right to walk away from the relationship I am choosing to be in a relationship where I have no choices I am, agreeing that my agreement is not necessary I am deciding to have no say in decision makiing meessed up huh?

batshalom -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 6:30:42 PM)
Not to contradict at all (but rather to illustrate my point) I was in a D/s relationship as a sub and was disallowed to use the word "no." To some, that would make me a slave. To Sir and to me, I was a sub. It didn't matter - it was a dynamic we both enjoyed.

Level -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 6:45:40 PM)
I always like to trot this out at times like these..... nothing like recycling.... *slave: one that is completely subservient* to a dominating influence. What does "completely subservient" mean? Whatever we want it to? Is one a slave, until they don't want to be, anymore? Can a slave say "fuck this", and get up and walk out the door? own: to possess. If we own something, does that mean we own it until we, and we alone, decide otherwise? Would we be better served to describe some as "slavish", rather than "slave"?**

ResidentSadist -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 6:52:38 PM)
A submissive takes the subordinate position in a D/s relationship. They do not have to surrender all control. A slave, contrary to common belief, does not have to be a submissive. However, they have to surrender all control in a TPE.

Level -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 6:53:56 PM)
Of course, I stand by what I said regarding labels. Are you happy? Is your partner happy? Then hells bells, kiss the ground and be glad, and get on with life, while you can.

RippedTwisted2 -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 7:21:42 PM)
Ok, well... I feel that I was a sub until the moment I gave my consensual non-consent. By doing so I have in effect given him my full consent (years ago, now) to do anything to me he wishes INCLUDING killing me in a worst case senario, where I were to leave him and there was no other way for him to get me back to my knees (figuratively speaking). I am often given some choices as to an activity I would prefer over another... my opinions are considered and I am not without decision making capability within our lives together... but final word is his and I have consented to anything he chooses to do to me or with me, and my current opinion or view on any such thing may be taken into account, but there is no "no" that I can utter, no sincere begging I can do, no safe word which will affect whatever outcome he chooses. The day I consented to never again have the option of refusing his will, is the day I feel I became a slave. For us, it isn't about who does what around the house, or what verbal name we might refer to each other as, depending on the situation. It's not about my collar, it's not about how much pain I can take or anything so trivial. It is about having NO way out. NONE. It's about being raped, which is not rape because I gave my consent years ago...no matter that it's misery at that moment. It's about being beaten and having no safe word...nothing but my body language to tell him if I'm in trouble, and sometimes body language fails and I am hurt badly... but I consented to it...If he chose to loan me or sell me, I would go where he chose, though my heart would be broken. This is just my opinion, but I would not feel that I am a slave if there were any sort of "out clause". I do feel though that it bears mentioning that I am NOT particularly submissive! I want to be, I try to be... but thus far (13 years in)...I'm sad to say...I'm not.... I am merely owned property with no escape... rebellious at times, perfectly reprehensible at times, but in the end I am always beaten down into the dirt where I belong and am most fullfilled. And even in my most rebellious, nasty snits I would never consider trying to get out of the relationship. There is nothing in the world that would keep him from finding me and dragging me back. I know, I know to some this may sound abusive and not consensual at all.... but I knew what I was doing when I gave him my consensual non-consent. This is what I want and need. What happens to me, is based on my own actions and/or his decision of how to deal with whatever I've done... or simply for his pleasure and desire. Whatever. I am his slave until death.

DesFIP -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 7:33:23 PM)
There's also the 'coolness' factor. Lots of people think that those who engage in kinky sex are "just" bottoms. That subs are more true than bottoms, and that slaves are much more real than subs. So they call themselves that. I'm a love slave in play, a sub the rest of the time. I have problems with the word slave and so does he. He wants me to challenge him if I think he's wrong. He needs me to stop him if I have a problem with the activity proposed because he isn't a mind reader. He doesn't like to deal with the aftermath if something goes wrong and would prefer to postpone the activity to a later time when I don't have a problem, or have figured out what the problem is. He wants me engaged, aroused and excited to be with him, not afraid. So we stay on the fluffier side of things. But I'd rather have cow slippers than bunnies if there's an option.

beargonewild -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/25/2008 8:12:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WelshGuyUk Hey, I would call my self a newbie when it comes to actually understanding the "difference" between the two. I have asked around what is different between a slave and submissive. And for the most common response is the slave has no choice, but a submissive does. But then I argue, that it's their " choice " to have no choice. So surely thats not the actual reason to use the term slave for some means, and submissive for other means. What is the difference exactly? Why do some doms want slaves not submissives and vice versa? Why do some "bottoms" claim they are submissive or slave? There must be a major difference for people to know which one they are looking for or wanting to be? Right ? All that really matters is how you see yourself. I mean, does it really matter if there is a difference or not? We all have choices and it is a matter of how much you yourself choose not to exercise personal choice and allowing another to do so for you.

DominantJenny -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/26/2008 7:34:36 AM)
I haven't seen this pointed out explicitly yet (and haven't gone back to read the bazillion repeats of this thread I know exist), so... One thing that a lot of people don't openly cop to is that the word "slave" is just plain HOT to a lot of people. On the flip side, a whole bunch of other people find the word a MAJOR turn-off. "Whore" is in a similar situation...love it or hate it for the most part with a few "whatevers" here and there. Then there are the one-true-wayers who want to dictate a meaning for everyone and refuse to grasp that you can't do that...the only way a word has a solid meaning is when the majority makes it so, and some words start off in such a way that the majority is never going to be able to agree on a definition. (On the other hand, almost everyone I've ever encountered accepts that bottom means "receiver of pain/humiliation" and does not INHERENTLY include either submission or slavery, although it MAY...this seems to be a definition on fairly solid footing these days. But that could change. Language, despite our attempts to make it static, is ultimately fluid.) If you're in the scene for a while, you generally end up coming to a definition for you just so you can have an answer to a frequently asked question. (For many, the answer is "whatever it means between me and the person I'm involved with".) Me, I mostly just find it hot. Doesn't matter what the person calls themselves, my needs and desires and expectations in a partner are what they are, and people will or won't fit that regardless of the label they prefer. Which is why, as pretty much always, it comes down to open and thorough communication. Jen P.S. Oops, replied to the wrong person. Oh, well, it's in the thread, anyway.

ResidentSadist -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/26/2008 9:58:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DominantJenny One thing that a lot of people don't openly cop to is that the word "slave" is just plain HOT to a lot of people. Consensual slavery is an oxymoron but I'll cop to it, ‘slaves’ are hot... the term implies total surrender instead of a negotiated surrender like the term submissive does. It's that lack of negotiation and the power it grants that makes the term 'slave' so hot for me.

southerntannedf -> RE: Submissive/Slave? (4/26/2008 3:33:48 PM)
and that is so true. This is a sexual foray for me so terms that are "hot buttons" so to speak that I wouldn't dream of letting someone use to define me at any other time. Slut whore bitch,, men that wouldn't dream of using it in a social setting ue it flowingly in bed. It' almot like the terms hav two definitions one a secret thing that is onl defined by the two using it at the time. Kind of like the word character. People think they should have it strive to get it but then we refer to some as characters becuase they stand out for not as noble reasons. Lots of terms are like that. Can I be a slave? Mayb no all the tim but in the right place at th right time its a lot of fun. Am I a submssive? Yes most definately although to see me in the outsdie social vanilla world, you might never guess it. I had a huge D/s fetish and a spanking fetish that went on for day when I danced in Atlanta. Guys talked to me about sex all the time they never ever pickd up on it in me. Years later as I came on these sies I of course ran into some old well I guess you would call them admirers customers sounds so impersonal somehow and they were amazed. Ty never picked up on it in there at all. But then in there you play a role. Just like for so many of us in this we play a role then another one in outside life. A term is just a term. The great thing we have going for us is that a term is just a term we alone define it for ourselves.. nessa

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