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Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obligat... - 4/26/2008 8:18:34 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

I just commented on a thread started by another member, and it got me thinking.

We have many women and men that are beaten, raped, mistreated and abused that consider themselves to be in our lifestyle and can be submissives or slaves.

Many of them come here crying and asking for help almost on a daily basis.

Are the strong submissive women and submissive men here, obligated to try to go out and help
those that are beaten, mistreated, left penniless or homeless, no family members to help them out?, those that have been used and abused in this lifestyle?

Should they open shelters for those that have been raped and abused in the name of D/s activity?
Are they obligated to help women and men that are submissive in nature that have been abused?
Help me out here!

< Message edited by MzMia -- 4/26/2008 8:20:35 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

Post #: 1

RE: Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obl... - 4/26/2008 9:33:59 PM

Devoura

Posts: 17
Joined: 5/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline

What makes you assume that being abused makes you "weak"? I doubt that this assumption will be met with open arms. If anything, I'd say some of the strongest individuals out there have come out of extreme abuse and have managed to create steady and successful lives for themselves. As for shelters, there are already shelters, mainly for women who have been victims of abuse. And, of course, that is a good idea as abuse tends to be abuse whether it's under the guise of 'D/s' behaviour or not.

That there is no distinct 'class' of 'stronger subs who haven't suffered abuse' and 'weaker' subs who have suffered abuse, makes your question of obligation is moot. But, if the question were 'Do people who have the power to help others in any situation also hold the obligation to do so?', then I don't think that they do. I would hold it as a personal responsilibility for myself, but not as an expectation for the actions of others.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 2

RE: Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obl... - 4/26/2008 9:40:34 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Devoura

What makes you assume that being abused makes you "weak"? I doubt that this assumption will be met with open arms. If anything, I'd say some of the strongest individuals out there have come out of extreme abuse and have managed to create steady and successful lives for themselves. As for shelters, there are already shelters, mainly for women who have been victims of abuse. And, of course, that is a good idea as abuse tends to be abuse whether it's under the guise of 'D/s' behaviour or not.

That there is no distinct 'class' of 'stronger subs who haven't suffered abuse' and 'weaker' subs who have suffered abuse, makes your question of obligation is moot. But, if the question were 'Do people who have the power to help others in any situation also hold the obligation to do so?', then I don't think that they do. I would hold it as a personal responsilibility for myself, but not as an expectation for the actions of others.

Anyone can be abused.
Being abused is not about how strong you are, many "strong" people are abused by
those more powerful then them.

I am talking about reaching out to those that are in unhealthy relationships, here.
My question is for male and female submissives, that are operating from a position of strength
at this time, and are in good relationships.

I want to know if any submissives that may or may not have been in abusive relationships themselves, are giving back to the community and helping people in other countries, that are in abusive relationships.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Devoura)

Post #: 3

RE: Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obl... - 4/26/2008 10:09:52 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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Cool idea...It would be like we were starting our own CM "farm system."

If your sub is not living up to all of her subly obligations you could threaten to send her down and bring up "anallyabusedinanaheim" as her replacement.

I like the way you think....It would suck if all anallyabusedinanaheim did was sit around and eat and cry....We probably should try and get them somewhat stablized before we can call them up for duty.

Unlike you, I'm compassionate like that

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(in reply to MzMia)

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RE: Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obl... - 4/26/2008 10:15:46 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Cool idea...It would be like we were starting our own CM "farm system."

If your sub is not living up to all of her subly obligations you could threaten to send her down and bring up "anallyabusedinanaheim" as her replacement.

I like the way you think....It would suck if all anallyabusedinanaheim did was sit around and eat and cry....We probably should try and get them somewhat stablized before we can call them up for duty.

Unlike you, I'm compassionate like that

you are a real piece of work.
Coming out of that Chicago political machine, with Obama,
I hope he nominates you for a high level position.
Better get up early tomorrow and go to his church.
You have great compassion and good ideas.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 5

RE: Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obl... - 4/26/2008 10:36:36 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

Hi MzMia,

I'll repost what I said in the other thread:

"Well, this is why I become irritated when I see anyone mocked and ridiculed for "being stupid" as lots of people like to point out, when it is obvious their esteem has been so damaged they think they deserve what they are receiving. I agree with you that humanity should be helping humanity. BDSM'ers could be helping abused BDSM'ers in an effort to help elevate the whole notion of what BDSM is to the outside world."

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Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 6

RE: Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obl... - 4/26/2008 11:12:41 PM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline

For me, it doesn't really have anything to do with being submissive or whatever. I was working in a community college when one of the women working in my office came into work with a chipped tooth and bruises all over her face. We were close enough that when I asked in my usual "catch someone off guard in the middle of a conversation" style what had happened, she said, "My boyfriend hit...I mean, I fell down the stairs." And then she didn't want to talk any more about it.

I realized that she wasn't going to open up to a guy, no matter how friendly and how long we'd known each other, so I found a mutual female friend, explained to her what was going on, and then she intervened and got our friend help.

The point is: I think there are a lot of people who like to walk around with blinders, but part of being a social being means being there for other people. It doesn't matter whether you are dominant, submissive or vanilla.

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(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 7

RE: Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obl... - 4/26/2008 11:25:32 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

First off, because someone has a penchant for bdsm does not mean that I would ever consider helping them.
It's just not enough of a connection or a commonality....I really dislike the idea that because of my interest in bdsm makes me part of some larger community.

If the posts out here are any indicator of the health of our community...I think we should start over...Perhaps a gated community.

Got to keep the loonies on the path.

_____________________________

(in reply to littlesarbonn)

Post #: 8

RE: Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obl... - 4/26/2008 11:40:37 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

The problem is that those who most need help are the least likely to accept it.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 9

RE: Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obl... - 4/27/2008 12:07:39 AM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The problem is that those who most need help are the least likely to accept it.

And to add to this, speaking as someone who fit the description once upon a time, often, those who need the most help are the ones for whom the help actually helps them stay in the relationships they're in.

The really cold hearted bitch of a truth that I discovered is that while it sounds like a lack of compassion and like I'm blaming the victim (and I'm not), the bottom line is that when they are saying things like "I fell down the stairs," they are participating in their abuse. There IS abrogated responsibility enough for all.

The best thing to do is make sure they have the information and then step back and let them make decisions for their own lives. Anything more than that and we are enabling the person who is enabling their own abuse.

So.. I feel no responsibility to help other people get out of abusive situations other than to make sure they have the information they need to make those decisions on their own.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 4/27/2008 12:12:25 AM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 10

RE: Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obl... - 4/27/2008 12:14:02 AM

DisenchantedLife

Posts: 193
Status: offline

Nobody is obligated to do anything

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(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 11

RE: Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obl... - 4/27/2008 6:34:22 AM

chamberqueen

Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline

There is very little that anyone is 'obligated' to do for another. It would be wonderful if someone was touched enough to. However, you can't force someone to do good deeds.

I think that a discussion group for those who have been taken advantage of during BDSM activity could be very helpful, but having a separate shelter would be difficult - geographically as well as in other ways.

I was in an abusive marriage for 14 years, getting worse until he actually threatened to kill me. I kept it extremely well hidden from people, somehow equating it to the thought that if I didn't somehow deserve it then it wouldn't have happened. The fact that these women are speaking out shouts of their strength, and I have seen some wonderful advice and empathy given to them here. At least it's a start.

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(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 12

RE: Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obl... - 4/27/2008 6:52:45 AM

kiwisub12

Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline

If the op is talking about posts on cm for help - then yes the community is helping them - by responding to their posts.
Assuming that the post is the truth, the whole truth and the complete truth is naive in the extreme. Its easy to take one post out of context of a whole life and make a case for abuse, but in reality there are many sides to a story, that we are not priviliged to see. Interventions have to be done in person, by people that know the abusee. We, as an online community are not the Lone Ranger, riding his white horse to the rescue. It has to be done by individuals who have more knowledge than we can pretend to have.

Sorry, OP, on this one i think you are being way too ambitious.

(in reply to chamberqueen)

Post #: 13

RE: Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obl... - 4/27/2008 7:21:52 AM

ShaktiSama

Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Devoura
What makes you assume that being abused makes you "weak"?

I find it interesting that you instantly project this onto MzMia's post. I just went through every word of the OP carefully--the word "weak" was never used, nor even implied.

The question is a simple one--whether the community should form and maintain some institutions of support for people who have ben abused while pursuing the lifestyle. I think it is probably something worth thinking about, actually. People who have the D/S orientation might have some issues which are a little more complex than the normal institutions for dealing with rape, assault or abuse are prepared to deal with...

Is a conventional battered women's shelter, for example, able to cope with battered men? Is a rape crisis center prepared to counsel a victim who had consented to one form of rough treatment but not another?

I have seen a lot of threads posted by people who at the very least needed a D/S-positive, sex-positive therapist to help them work through some bad experiences. It makes me wonder if there is an information resource or a community page for D/S-positive counseling in various states/cities/countries.

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"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
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(in reply to Devoura)

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RE: Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obl... - 4/27/2008 7:38:46 AM

pinkwind

Posts: 367
Joined: 1/9/2005
Status: offline

i don't feel obligated to help anyone and everyone who posts asking for help, but what i do feel obligated to do is make sure that any response that i make to someone's post addresses the issues they post about, are my honest reactions to their words and problems and posted in general from a standpoint of personal experiences.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 15

RE: Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obl... - 4/27/2008 8:54:16 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

These are human rights issues. I think all ethical human beings who are fortunate enough to have more than enough for their needs are obligated to help others. However none of us can help everyone, so pick charities that appeal the most to you and support them.

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Cynical and proud of it!

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RE: Strong female and male Submissives, Is there an obl... - 4/27/2008 12:40:30 PM

batshalom

Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The problem is that those who most need help are the least likely to accept it.

And are often the ones who refuse to believe it, and I don't mean that in a "strong and resilient" kind of way.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 17

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