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27 April 1940 - 4/27/2008 8:11:54 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		Here's a little tidbit for those of you who glorify war and subscribe to the "us vs.them" philosophy:

"Auschwitz-Birkenau (Konzentrationslager Auschwitz (help·info)) was the largest of Nazi Germany's concentration camps. Located in German-occupied southern Poland, it took its name from the nearby town of Oswiecim (Auschwitz in German), situated about 50 kilometers west of Kraków and 286 kilometers from Warsaw. Following the German occupation of Poland in September 1939, Oswiecim was incorporated into Germany as part of the Katowice District (Regierungsbezirk Kattowitz), or unofficially East Upper Silesia (Ost-Oberschlesien), and renamed Auschwitz. The word Birkenau means 'Birch tree' of which there are many surrounding the Birkenau area of the complex.

The complex consisted of three main camps: Auschwitz I, the administrative center; Auschwitz II (Birkenau), an extermination camp or Vernichtungslager; and Auschwitz III (Monowitz), a work camp. There were also around 40 satellite camps, some of them tens of kilometers from the main camps, with prisoner populations ranging from several dozen to several thousand. [1]
The camp commandant, Rudolf Höss, testifed at the Nuremberg Trials that up to 2.5 million people had died at Auschwitz. The Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum revised this figure in 1990, and new calculations now place the figure at 1.1–1.6 million, [2][3] about 90 percent of them Jews from almost every country in Europe. [4] Most of the dead were killed in gas chambers using Zyklon B; other deaths were caused by systematic starvation, forced labor, lack of disease control, individual executions, and so-called medical experiments." from Wikipedia
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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/27/2008 8:28:16 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Just where do you see anyone here "glorifying" war? 

And for what it's worth, the piece you've quoted describes systematic genocide... not a conventional war in the sense that most people define it.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/27/2008 8:29:52 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		I have to agree with Treasure on this.

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Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/27/2008 8:43:39 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		So America is guilty of "us vs. them" but the terrorists are not?

The only ones I know of that glorify war are terrorists who intentionally target innocent women and children or hijack airplanes full of passengers and fly them into buildings. The ones that strap bombs to their chest under their clothes and walk into a supermarket and blow themselves up. Those are the ones who glorify war and promote jihad. Those are the real cowards.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/27/2008 8:49:46 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Who freed all the people from these camps, Hippiekinkster?  I believe it was SOLDIERS in the middle of a WAR. 

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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/27/2008 8:53:24 PM   
Moloch


Posts: 1090
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Who freed all the people from these camps, Hippiekinkster?  I believe it was SOLDIERS in the middle of a WAR. 


Quiet you capitalist imperilaist war monger! Free love and hugs freed those people!

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/27/2008 9:00:24 PM   
Zarine


Posts: 32
Joined: 9/9/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with all those that have posted so far.  FYI it was Americans and the other Allies that freed the prisoners of those camps.  If you ask me, WWII was a glorious war because we destroyed something truely terrifying, genocidal fascism.  And another fyi, a good deal of those governments in the middle east are Fascist.  They are totalitarian governments that don't allow people much freedom at all.

Granted, I'm much more in favor of isolationism because the rest of the world hates the US for doing anything, but totalitarianism seriously hurts people.  If you don't believe that, just ask the families of the Kurds Sadam gassed, if there are any left that is.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/27/2008 9:23:59 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		 How quickly ya`ll forget your hyperbole....



"we have to fight~them there~,so we don`t have to ~fight them here~"


"if you`re not with us,you`re against us"


~"crusade" on terrorism~ What a dummy, to use that word,"crusade".
http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0919/p12s2-woeu.html


Regular use the word " Islamofascists"(or something like it),which is insulting to 99 % of all Muslim people ,by the POTUS or his staff. Sure, it scares Americans into voting republican and it`s great for American consumption,but it`s completely counterproductive in the fight on terror and al-queda.


How many times have we heard Bush frame Iraq, in terms of "good vs. evil"?Of course,Bush is the good guy,and ~they`re~ the "evil doers".I guess over a million civian deaths (and counting)in Iraq,makes Bush a do-gooder.


I think some of the most insulting things(for veterans and for people`s intelligence) to come from the mis-guided, are the comparisons between WWII,an honorable and righteous war against true evil and the Iraq occupation.


Viet Nam is the proper and accurate comparison.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 4/27/2008 10:13:59 PM >

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/27/2008 9:36:48 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Hippie, I don't think you're going to find too many in this site who "glorify war." (lol)
You may want to try another site for that!
I'm a retired career military veteran and I don't think much of war at all especially when foreign countries try to get us involved in their problems!
I'm with Zarine, I'm getting more and more isolationist by the very day.
It's funny, the people who want to get us out of Iraq which I wholeheartedly agree with, want to (then) turn around and get us involved in shitpits like Somalia, Haiti and Darfur!
Maybe you should track those people down and give them a good piece of your mind! And worse, most of those people aren't Republicans they're Democrats!
I mean how fucked up is that?

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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/27/2008 9:49:42 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zarine

I agree with all those that have posted so far.  FYI it was Americans and the other Allies that freed the prisoners of those camps.  If you ask me, WWII was a glorious war because we destroyed something truely terrifying, genocidal fascism.  And another fyi, a good deal of those governments in the middle east are Fascist.  They are totalitarian governments that don't allow people much freedom at all.


just thought i'd stick in a little note here that there are more governmental structures in the world than "fascism" and "american democracy," and many major middle eastern countries (morocco if you count the maghreb as part of the mideast, jordan, etc.) have citizens who, at least if they recognize the shortcomings of their governments, don't necessarily feel an overwhelming need to completely topple them and replace them with democracy.

just sayin'. yes, there are a couple of totalitarian governments where you'd probably find a majority of the population feeling as though they don't have much freedom (saudi arabia, afghanistan - notedly wahhabist countries...somalia, but it's hard to have freedom when you have no government at all), but at least many of the middle eastern and american women i know living in various places in the middle east live everyday lives not all that vastly different from mine in many areas, with similar concerns about their governments, their economic situations, etc. this whole west=freedom and liberation and democracy/east=fascism and oppression thing is really reductionist.

back on topic, i have to agree with treasureky. although a lot of the problems that come from the us vs. them polarization can lead to dehumanizing to the point of genocide, and although our current situation has its problems, the current war (at least in terms of the us's direct involvement) is not comparable to the holocaust.

respectfully,
annabelle.


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a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to Zarine)
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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/28/2008 12:35:16 AM   
GimpinDenial


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/20/2008
Status: offline 		MMMkay...
why?
Why did you post this particualar piece of info??

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/28/2008 6:50:03 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		     But, but, but...  The peace-loving, all around nice guy, President of Iran says it never happened.  Since he hates Bush, doesn't that mean he's always right?


     I'm perfectly ok with an "us vs. them" mentality when "them" are up to schemes like you chronicle in the OP, Hippie.  Were you thinking Hitler needed a hug? 

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/28/2008 7:07:13 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Hitler got plenty of hugs from American businesses and policies before this latter decided at the last minute to engage in the war. A lot of people (and countries, shamefully enough) liked Hitler, until he got a bit too big for his breeches.

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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/28/2008 7:12:17 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Here's a little tidbit for those of you who glorify war and subscribe to the "us vs.them" philosophy:



The problem with pursuing a policy through war is that no one can tell where it will end up. As the European armies whistled their way to war in the war that would be over before Christmas in 1914, no one imagined the carnage that war would cause nor that it would create the conditions that led to WWII and the holocaust some thirty years later. That is why I have no time for belligerent foreign policy. Yes, some wars are inevitable but they are usually inevitable because all parties are responsible for the conditions that make war inevitable. That is my problem with people who get off on condemning Arabs and Iranians, the west's imperial inteference with the region has caused all the problems there. It was western foreign policy that created the conditions that has led terrorism.

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/28/2008 7:36:22 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

That is my problem with people who get off on condemning Arabs and Iranians, the west's imperial inteference with the region has caused all the problems there. It was western foreign policy that created the conditions that has led terrorism.


Emphasis mine.

All the problems?

I thought it was the (take your pick - Jews, Blacks, Communists, Conservatives, Mexicans, Christians, Muslims, Atheists, etc., etc., etc.,) who caused all the problems.

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Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/28/2008 7:41:41 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

That is my problem with people who get off on condemning Arabs and Iranians, the west's imperial inteference with the region has caused all the problems there. It was western foreign policy that created the conditions that has led terrorism.


Emphasis mine.

All the problems?

I thought it was the (take your pick - Jews, Blacks, Communists, Conservatives, Mexicans, Christians, Muslims, Atheists, etc., etc., etc.,) who caused all the problems.


You know your history as well as me. Western interference, imperial agendas and double dealing created the situation in which terrorism thrives.

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/28/2008 8:21:34 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Here's a little tidbit for those of you who glorify war and subscribe to the "us vs.them" philosophy:



The problem with pursuing a policy through war is that no one can tell where it will end up. As the European armies whistled their way to war in the war that would be over before Christmas in 1914, no one imagined the carnage that war would cause nor that it would create the conditions that led to WWII and the holocaust some thirty years later. That is why I have no time for belligerent foreign policy. Yes, some wars are inevitable but they are usually inevitable because all parties are responsible for the conditions that make war inevitable. That is my problem with people who get off on condemning Arabs and Iranians, the west's imperial inteference with the region has caused all the problems there. It was western foreign policy that created the conditions that has led terrorism.
Quite so. If  the future conforms to the "law of unitintended consequences" the US will have created some bad juju.

But my post had nothing to do with the US policy anywhere in the world. It had to do with prejudice and unquestioning obedience, and the consequences thereof. If other posters want to babble on about whatever it is they want to babble about, fine by me.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/28/2008 8:53:31 AM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

You know your history as well as me. Western interference, imperial agendas and double dealing created the situation in which terrorism thrives.


That’s not the question. The question is, are we responsible for ALL of their problems. Can none of their troubles be laid at their own feet? Using your logic we can agree that the Crusades are Islam’s fault. After all, their interfering in the West created the conditions in which Crusaders thrived.

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Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/28/2008 8:58:29 AM   
Floggings4You


Posts: 240
Joined: 12/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Who freed all the people from these camps, Hippiekinkster?  I believe it was SOLDIERS in the middle of a WAR. 


Damn straight!

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RE: 27 April 1940 - 4/28/2008 10:24:31 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		It's all Cain's fault.

Or wait maybe it was Moses, Oh no wait it was ...............

One can always cast back in time to find an excuse, what never seems to happen is for people to accept their own parts and not try to blame the entire thing on one side or the other. Plenty of fault to be spread around.

(in reply to Floggings4You)
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