a dirty four letter word

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softness -> a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 11:01:06 AM)
Love There is often debate on the boards about love and its place in BDSM. I do not intend this to turn into a bun fight about whether it has a place in BDSM or not .. that is for each person to decide for themselves .. please therefore dont turn this into a "I do/n't need love to be happy in BDSM" . I stumbled across an old text book of mine and dipped into the section on human relationships. Now without boring you with either a History or a Greek lesson I was taken by the subject of the chapter - different forms of love. There was a division in the Ancient Greek mind about types of love and different types of loving relationships. Now in Greek this was also represented by a linguistic separation - they had a different word for the love between friends, the white hot passionate love of young lovers and the old comfortable enduring love between an aging man and wife. I have often thought that if modern English used such defined linguistic separation the path of human raltionships might run more smoothly. Men wouldn't need to run screaming for the hills when their girlfriends said they loved them .. when they actually mean .. "I love shagging the crap out of you and think you are a hottie". Here roughly defined are the three ideas of love as indicated above philia - the loyal love of a friend, a love of brotherhood or sisterhood. eros - passionate erotic love .. irrational agape - divine, unconditional, self-sacrificing, active, volitional, and thoughtful love now in the 1970's John Lee defined 7 "colours" of love Eros — a passionate physical and emotional love based on aesthetic enjoyment; stereotype of romantic love Ludus — a love that is played as a game or sport; conquest Storge — an affectionate love that slowly develops from friendship, based on similarity Pragma — love that is driven by the head, not the heart; undemonstrative Mania — highly volatile love; obsession; fueled by low self-esteem Agape — selfless altruistic love; spiritual; motherly love so ... oh wonderous peoples of CM ... Is there a highest form of love? ... is there such a thing as True Love? What love do you feel for your partner? Lee put forward the theory that each of us have a default setting for the love we engage in with our partners .. do you agree? Or is it context/individual driven? Which form(s) of love fit best with your dynamic? .. Do you think there is a colour of love which fits best with your role?

SteelofUtah -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 11:09:25 AM)
The MAN Nat King Cole said it best and I try to always live by these words. I believe in ALL forms of Love. ~~~~~L.O.V.E. By Nat King Cole L is for the way you look at me O is for the only one I see V is very, very extraordinary E is even more than anyone that you adore can Love is all that I can give to you Love is more than just a game for two Two in love can make it Take my heart and please dont break it Love was made for me and you <trumpet instrumental> L is for the way you look at me O is for the only one I see V is very, very extraordinary E is even more than anyone that you adore can Love is all that I can give to you Love is more than just a game for two Two in love can make it Take my heart and please dont break it Love was made for me and you Love was made for me and you Love was made for me and you

OmegaG -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 11:11:57 AM)
my theroy is that Love is not one emotion but it is an umbrella word that covers a number of different emotions and needs--lust, friendship, security (I wrote a blog about this once and had a long list of sub-emotions and needs-- they aren't coming to me now). I suppose that each of the Greek words for love could be described with a different mix of the emotions, so maybe I'm not off my rocker with this. What is your definition of true love? I don't believe in unconditional love, even a love for a child is based on the condition of the dynamics of the parent/child relationship-- we rarely love other people's children quite as blindly as we love our own. Is true love a deep seeded love that weathers most storms while holding on to your ethic and moral guidelines or is it a frantic love where you will abandon those ethics and morals to do anything to keep the person you love, is that love or is it something less healthy? Can true love only be achieved in self-love? Stop. Making. Me. Think. Slightly off topic-- I've been wondering why I can feel love at this time but I'm having the hardest damned time sharing with him how I feel about him. Still working on the root behind that so I can solve the problem.

RCdc -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 11:43:34 AM)
hello softness... The answer I give to all your questions is the only response I can give to the questions of love - Darcy. the.dark.

DiurnalVampire -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 11:47:46 AM)
I love both the boys. I am IN love with Fox, I cannot imagine not having him as a romantic part of my life right now, or in the future. I love Angel, but he is my baby not my lover. I canot imagine not having him as my little one, and not having the interactions we have, but we could never be romantic. I think love is different for everyone, the way they feel it, percieve it and react to it. I believe in true love. Fox does, now, but didnt before he metme. Angel does not, and doesnt believe he wil ever fall in love with anyone but is perfectly happy loving friends and loving me the way we are now. DV

Dnomyar -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 11:50:28 AM)
Looks like John Lee could not make up his mind either. Omega mabey your afraid of pushing him away. True love could only come to 2 of the same clones.

azropedntied -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 11:57:25 AM)
i never thought of "love " as a dirty 4 letter word , But "work" on the other hand should be alot higher on the list .If you took the other side of your statement and replace love , pleasure , joy , with loathing , hate , displeasure would you still be in bdsm ?Love for me has to be present in some form of bdsm be it caring ,pleasure , something .

ResidentSadist -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 12:11:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: softness What love do you feel for your partner? - Several, but eros, agape storge are strongest Lee put forward the theory that each of us have a default setting for the love we engage in with our partners .. do you agree? Or is it context/individual driven? - For me, yes. There does seem to be an idle setting, a starting point of 'storge' in that if they don't feel like family, the other types of love will not evolve.

Prinsexx -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 12:12:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: softness Love Lee put forward the theory that each of us have a default setting for the love we engage in with our partners I 'love' your thread...pragmatically. And yes I agree with lee. My contract would have to be an agreement based on: Eros — a passionate physical and emotional love based on aesthetic enjoyment, possibly minus the romanticism. Evolving towards Agape. Colour of love? Deep purple (bruises) but changing through the colours of the rainbow. STORGE?????????? Sounds like, looks like, feels like a cross between stodge and orgy......it never happened in my family but if somebody would like to adopt me or lock me up in a cage I'd be willing to give it a go. Interesting though because so many 'fiends' have suggested I begin with friendship first and see how it grows........I guess it's missing as my default setting. Hate....also a four letter word. very crossed with love as a setting for me as a masochist.

Prinsexx -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 12:26:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar Looks like John Lee could not make up his mind either. Omega mabey your afraid of pushing him away. True love could only come to 2 of the same clones. Or previous lives? in relationship.

DominantJenny -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 12:55:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: softness philia - the loyal love of a friend, a love of brotherhood or sisterhood. eros - passionate erotic love .. irrational agape - divine, unconditional, self-sacrificing, active, volitional, and thoughtful love now in the 1970's John Lee defined 7 "colours" of love Eros — a passionate physical and emotional love based on aesthetic enjoyment; stereotype of romantic love Ludus — a love that is played as a game or sport; conquest Storge — an affectionate love that slowly develops from friendship, based on similarity Pragma — love that is driven by the head, not the heart; undemonstrative Mania — highly volatile love; obsession; fueled by low self-esteem Agape — selfless altruistic love; spiritual; motherly love so ... oh wonderous peoples of CM ... Is there a highest form of love? ... is there such a thing as True Love? What love do you feel for your partner? Lee put forward the theory that each of us have a default setting for the love we engage in with our partners .. do you agree? Or is it context/individual driven? Which form(s) of love fit best with your dynamic? .. Do you think there is a colour of love which fits best with your role? I was familiar with the Greek, but had never heard of Lee. I like the Greek divisions, although, as Lee pointed out, there is still more complexity that falls under the heading than three categories can fully cover. I don't know that I agree with the ones Lee came up with, though. I shall refrain from the paragraphs it would probably take me to define my own, though. This time. grin Highest form of love gets into the whole "better" thing that is generally best left alone; what is best for one person in ANYTHING may not be best for another, in the end. I am passionately (eros) in love with my partner. It amuses me that, actually, we had from the start the kind of chemistry that actually usually bodes ill for a relationship. But we had the good sense to know it for what it was, and I think that made all the difference. We didn't rely on it or even let it be a key component of the relationship we built. In the end, though, I do think having a physical attraction/connection that is unusually intense has helped a time or two. Beyond that, though, we have the usual romantic love. Over time, what was probably closer to philia has become agape. We are necessary to each other. We shape our lives so that we are continually drawn towards each other, and we both thrive on our relationship. Neither one of us can imagine life without the other. That sort of thing. I don't know that we have a default setting. I think many people have a standard way of approaching relationships, which is sort of the same thing but not quite. For example, some people approach relationships with their primary focus being a stereotypical eros type thing...they want romance and emotion and logic and reason bedamned, others approach with a more "philia" style...the connection must be made as friends, and the love grows from there...the eros stuff is nice, but only if there are philia reasons to be together as well (this would be my approach), still others want a sort of perfect union similar to agape...which it rarely if ever just stepped into, ime (I think agape is something that comes in time), and so those people often are "eternally looking", yet others approach mating from a purely practical/pragmatic does-this-person-combine-with-me-to-make-up-a-successful-pairing point of view, where logic and reason are the be-all, end-all. There are more, but those are all fairly common. In my case, as I said, I look for a strong basis of friendship and personal connection...I find that physical attraction generally comes along is the mental/emotional one is strong enough, so essentially philia with eros growing from that. I don't think any role (if you mean, for example, dominant/submissive) has an inherent style of love...everyone is different after all. As a dominant, my agape and eros aspects seem well suited, but that's just me.

Wheldrake -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 1:07:24 PM)
Great topic, and yes, the ambiguity of the word love can cause a lot of problems in English. I'm apparently wired a bit like ResidentSadist, in that a healthy dose of storge is a prerequisite for the development of any other kind of love. I'd say that my love for my Mistress is now some combination of storge and eros, but with the addition of a third colour that I would describe as a kind of devotional, adorational love that's very much tied up with my obedience and surrender to her. Perhaps this is related to the "self-sacrificing" component of agape, but I don't think it's quite the same thing. I don't know nearly enough Greek to come up with a good term for it, though.

daddysliloneds -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 2:43:03 PM)
my color of love would be warm and energetic, so probably the color of sunlight... my type of love based on the versions you gave would be storge. how it comes to be or develops is different with every one of my partners, though how i describe it would not be limited to a fundamental list of seven things as your author was so inclined to do.

subtee -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 2:46:31 PM)
Love hurts, love scars, Love wounds, and marks, Any heart, not tough, Or strong, enough To take a lot of pain, Take a lot of pain Love is like a cloud Holds a lot of rain Love hurts, ooh ooh love hurts --Nazareth

faerytattoodgirl -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 3:23:30 PM)
I LOVE you softy..... how can i not...a hot uk girl with a hot uk accent mmmmmm.....you just need to be Dom now.... soft n faery...sittin in a tree...spanking eachother with lots of gleee....

Prinsexx -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 3:31:46 PM)
Not meaning to sabotage the thread but could spomeone start a 'I dirty-four-letter-word the person beneath me or above me....(depending upon your position?) in the Random Stupidity posts....? I can't initiate it as I'm submissive........ Prin

Corvidae -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 3:46:43 PM)
Is there a highest form of love? ... is there such a thing as True Love? I don't think that one form of love is necesarily higher than another in every one. For some the romantic/eros sort of love might be the most powerful factor in their life, whereas for others love based on friendship or family might be stronger. As for "True Love," I guess that depends how you define it. Would the existance of "True Love" imply that there is untrue love? What love do you feel for your partner? I don't have one partner at the moment. I wasn't "in love" with my previous girlfriend. I liked her a lot, I thought she was hot, and perhaps over time "love" of some sort might have developed (but she ended up moving to another country, so our relationship was ended prematurely). Lee put forward the theory that each of us have a default setting for the love we engage in with our partners .. do you agree? Or is it context/individual driven? I agree and disagree... I think that to some degree we probably "fall" in similar ways over and over again. However, the feel of a love for one person can be very different from how we might feel love for another. Even within my close friendships, I have noticed that the (platonic)love I feel for one friend can be quite different from how I feel for another friend. This makes sense, since although I may be close friends with both people, the sort of friendship I have with them may be very different. I imagine the same would be true with romantic (eros) love as well (I haven't been "in love" with enough people to say for myself). Which form(s) of love fit best with your dynamic? I'm not sure I know what you mean by dynamic. As to the sort of love that seems to be most important in my life at the moment, it would definitely be philia (love within friendship). I can be shy, and a bit of a loner (not always by choice), but the close friends I do have are incredibly important to me. It almost feels like I become a better person when I am around theese friends. I love them to death, and would bend over backward to help them if they ever needed me. This is complicated by the fact that I am also romantically (eros) in love with one of my closest friends. She loves me too, but in a platonic way. This is a classic situation I guess, but the fact that it has happened to millions of people does not make it any easier for me. It feels to me like my two feelings of love for her are competing. I love her as a friend, and spending time around her just makes me happy. However, my feelings of romantic love make it unbearably painful to be around her, and have both pushed me away and made me closer to her. I have often thought about just ending the friendship because it hurts too much, but I value her as a friend so much that it seems worth it to endure the heartache in order to keep her as a friend. Sigh... [:(] Do you think there is a colour of love which fits best with your role? Role? Do you mean as a submissive? I haven't felt love within the context of BDSM yet, so I can't say.

graceadieu -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 9:15:17 PM)
I've never heard of Lee, but I like that classification, even if the names are a bit silly. "Storge" is definitely my default setting. I can't imagine having a relationship that wasn't rooted in friendship. (Now, I love sex, too, love and sex don't necessarily go hand-in-hand.) I don't think there's a highest form of love - it depends on the context.

MistressOfGa -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 11:33:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark hello softness... The answer I give to all your questions is the only response I can give to the questions of love - Darcy. the.dark. Awww the.dark I am now crushin' on you! What a sweet answer. I think I will use it too. But no worries I will replace Darcy with Brian lol Gawd, can you tell I feel better? <s>

WestBayLoner -> RE: a dirty four letter word (4/30/2008 11:50:38 PM)
My feelings on love are somewhat complex and long-winded, but I'll spare this thread that. Using those categories, I'd say a Storge with enough Eros to keep things fun is my ideal of romantic love. My love is the love of friendship first, but simply a more dedicated and intense one in a romantic context. Mania might apply for me, but more as a personalty trait than anything else – I'm in a love-hate relationship with the world and everyone in it. It keeps things interesting. [:D]

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