RE: Thought i'd seen it all till...

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BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 5:09:55 PM)
quote: Would it have been any easier had he said 'just give me $'... noooooooo... i'd still be hurting for being played a fool. i KNOW i'm not saying this the way i want... there WILL be someone out there that falls for this... why does that make it right??? It doesn't! And someone will get hurt... probably badly... but the person with the profile can say 'oh i told you upfront'... get's her off the hook... right? Makes it ok, right? So what another human being gets trampled, right? 'She was honest' so that makes it ok... sorry but i think that's bs. I don't think it's BS at all. I think that if a guy comes to you and says honestly and upfront: I'm married or live with a woman I love, but I would very much like to get together with you on occasion to play, and use you for your body, and the money I can get from you, and you agreed to it, you would have absolutely NOTHING to be here complaining about as a free THINKING responsible adult. Your choice, your results, hopefully you can make those choices for yourself, otherwise, better check with mom or dad if that is too difficult to figure out. IMHO being honest about one's intentions/desires upfront is the single biggest honor/favor anyone can do for me, and always gets my respect, because it gives me a chance to be deliberate in my decision, and doesn't leave me second guessing my choices, or wondering why I ended up hurt. M

KittenWithaTwist -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 5:14:37 PM)
Angelic, No one is getting trampled as far as I see it. If this woman puts "I want this amount of money" in my profile, and some sub comes along and gives it to her of his OWN FREE WILL, then who, exactly, is the victim? No one is holding a gun to the sub's head, saying do it or else. There are probably incentives to giving this domme money, but who knows? We only see one tiny piece of the puzzle. If you spend $400 on a pair of shoes, do you plan on blaming the sales person for scamming you out of your dough? He made those shoes look mighty nice. You tried them on. You walked around the store. You knew the price. You may regret the purchase later, but that's just something you may have to live with. You're only a victim of your conscience.

JustaTop -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 5:16:26 PM)
quote: Read this There may very well be more females wanting to scam men for money, but definitely not sufficient to outnumber male liars who scam for other things. At least this particular female is courteous enough to be honest about her intentions, something I find more honorable than much of what the men do to get what they want. I could tell someone I'd cut off thier head too-your rationalizing over my "honesty" in saying I'd do it still doesn't make that person less dead,does it? Honestly,the way you people here twist and turn things to suit your selfishness is truly astounding at times. We call that "being a sociopath".

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 5:21:13 PM)
quote: Honestly,the way you people here twist and turn things to suit your selfishness is truly astounding at times. We call that "being a sociopath". Why thank you doctor, I'll go find me some meds to cure me of you, or maybe use the block button. I don't think this is the first time I've read and gotten a feeling that you are generally angry with women, and collarme women, maybe you ought to look in the mirror. M

angelic -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 5:21:36 PM)
i truly do understand what i'm 'hearing' here... i'm not sure why this one touched such a cord with me. Like i said, maybe it's just my mood today. However, i can tell you that if i paid $400 for a pair of shoes... walked around the store, etc... left and the next day the shoes fell apart. i'd damn sure go back to get my money back. So... does her profile say anything about refunds? LOL

angelic -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 5:24:07 PM)
i truly did not mean to start such a terrible rant, here. i just don't like the fact that another person is taken advantage of, under the veil of honesty.

JustaTop -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 5:31:17 PM)
I'm not at all angry with women. I'm disgusted by assholes who use people. It matters not,what sex or role they are. Then think they were "correct' to do so,for whatever reason. If you think that being a creep is "right" maybe YOU should look in the mirror-and hope it doesn't crack. As far as DECENT women,I have NOTHING but admiration for them.[;)]

domtimothy46176 -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 6:05:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: strongnsubmissiv ... till i saw a Femdom profile with this... The first task is for you to pay off my debts which equal 18,000 Do not come to me grovelling that you can't or won't do these things. I know this topic has been beat to death, but it saddens me to see such blatant opportunism. It's one thing to say that financial domination is a legitimate kink, but to actually state a specific dollar amount in a profile is just pathetic. I suspect she thinks that submissive men are chumps to fall for that kind of crap, and it just saddens me. Takes all kinds i guess.. sns Having read through the entire thread, I thought I would throw in my perspective. I've read profiles of those who make it clear they expect to be provided for by someone who's "financially secure" and I've read profiles of those who claim to be "financially secure" and looking for someone to provide for. Regardless of how it impacts a third party's sensibilities, the fact is, there are people who put themselves out for rent and people looking for someone to rent. I may or may not find such an approach suitable for myself, but I'm not being asked for my blessings, either. I don't find the given example unethical. I personally point out in my profile that I make no promises other than the opportunity to serve with honor. I don't promise sex, play or love. Is it unethical for me to advertise for someone to serve as an unpaid maid? Perhaps for some it is. If someone accepted such a post within my household after being assured that I meant exactly what I wrote, have I taken advantage of them by accepting their service? In the eyes of some, probably so. We each are looking for someone who meets our needs. Regardless of what those needs may be, we should each be able to judge for ourselves who best meets those needs. As to the question of buyer's remorse, we're all adults and those of us who don't use good judgement can either take responsibility for our failings or we can blame the one who accepted what we willingly offered. The person that forks over $18K for the opportunity to serve a domme may well live to regret it but is his remorse any more or less poignant than that of any other disillusioned soul? Whether it's money or a broken heart, folks suffer the consequences of their actions every day. I guess I just get puzzled when I see this question treated like it's any different than any other question of compatability. I want a slave who understands that I may never lay a finger on her unless it suits my purposes. Most females out there find that to be at odds with their desires and so they do not line up at my door begging to serve my household. They don't act like I'm trolling for suckers who don't know any better. In the same way, when I see a slave advertising for an owner who will love and cherish her, I don't point out that, according to my requirements, love and affection are not a proper foundation for an owner/property dynamic. I just pass them over and respect their right to seek out what they want and need. If you find it distasteful, you're free to choose to avoid such an arrangement. So why all the vitriol? Timothy

angelic -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 6:21:43 PM)
Last post i make on this subject. i do not know what the rest of the profile says and frankly neither does Aanyone Eelse responding here. Having said that, i based all of my responses on that one line, just as Yyou Aall did.. yes, it struck a cord with me. Now, i will stfu.

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 7:44:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelic i truly did not mean to start such a terrible rant, here. i just don't like the fact that another person is taken advantage of, under the veil of honesty. How are they being taken advantage of if they agree knowingly? What is the veil of honesty? Are we saying that this dominant won't be a good dominant? There was a thread awhile back about what slaves felt they were worth, more than one of them said they were simply priceless but whatever price it did get was higher than most anyone would have. So really...that's a damn good price.

Tristan -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 7:52:16 PM)
The problem is not the honesty part, but the dishonesty part. I'm fairly confident that no one is going to say give me money and I will give you absolutely nothing in return. Rather, I suspect that something is being offered either directly or indirectly. That's the problem. In many if not most of these requests, the scammer uses consent to absolve him or her of responsibility.

strongnsubmissiv -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 8:04:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2 How are they being taken advantage of if they agree knowingly? I wonder if we should ask native North Americans the same question? My point simply is that the profile in question is just so blatantly obvious. Stating intentions up front doesn't make it right, and i fail to see how paying a huge financial debt for someone has anything to do with BDSM. There's a reason this woman posted the profile here, and not on a vanilla site stating the same conditions. It has the potential to exploit a sexually submissive male, who just might be confused about his sexuality. In my opinion it's shameful; regardless of what is stated upfront. sns

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 8:06:03 PM)
quote: I don't find the given example unethical. I personally point out in my profile that I make no promises other than the opportunity to serve with honor. I don't promise sex, play or love. Is it unethical for me to advertise for someone to serve as an unpaid maid? Perhaps for some it is. If someone accepted such a post within my household after being assured that I meant exactly what I wrote, have I taken advantage of them by accepting their service? In the eyes of some, probably so. We each are looking for someone who meets our needs. Regardless of what those needs may be, we should each be able to judge for ourselves who best meets those needs. As to the question of buyer's remorse, we're all adults and those of us who don't use good judgement can either take responsibility for our failings or we can blame the one who accepted what we willingly offered. The person that forks over $18K for the opportunity to serve a domme may well live to regret it but is his remorse any more or less poignant than that of any other disillusioned soul? Whether it's money or a broken heart, folks suffer the consequences of their actions every day. I guess I just get puzzled when I see this question treated like it's any different than any other question of compatability. I want a slave who understands that I may never lay a finger on her unless it suits my purposes. Most females out there find that to be at odds with their desires and so they do not line up at my door begging to serve my household. They don't act like I'm trolling for suckers who don't know any better. In the same way, when I see a slave advertising for an owner who will love and cherish her, I don't point out that, according to my requirements, love and affection are not a proper foundation for an owner/property dynamic. I just pass them over and respect their right to seek out what they want and need. If you find it distasteful, you're free to choose to avoid such an arrangement. So why all the vitriol? Timothy Thank you for stating more clearly what I was thinking! M

LadyJulieAnn -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 8:24:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: strongnsubmissiv My point simply is that the profile in question is just so blatantly obvious. Stating intentions up front doesn't make it right, and i fail to see how paying a huge financial debt for someone has anything to do with BDSM. There's a reason this woman posted the profile here, and not on a vanilla site stating the same conditions. It has the potential to exploit a sexually submissive male, who just might be confused about his sexuality. In my opinion it's shameful; regardless of what is stated upfront. sns Being sexually submissive does not excuse you from having to use common sense when interacting with other human beings. Be well, Julie

domtimothy46176 -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 8:24:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: strongnsubmissiv I wonder if we should ask native North Americans the same question? My point simply is that the profile in question is just so blatantly obvious. Stating intentions up front doesn't make it right, and i fail to see how paying a huge financial debt for someone has anything to do with BDSM. There's a reason this woman posted the profile here, and not on a vanilla site stating the same conditions. It has the potential to exploit a sexually submissive male, who just might be confused about his sexuality. In my opinion it's shameful; regardless of what is stated upfront. sns If "stating it up front doesn't make it right", then is it fair to assume that you have been appointed final arbiter of what is right? Your position indicates that you have declared that this is wrong under any circumstances, including willing consent from both involved parties. My question is a simple one, on what basis have you determined that two consenting adults are not free to choose the basis for their own dynamic? I would further point out that every dominant "has the potential to exploit a sexually submissive male (or female), who just might be confused about his (or her) sexuality. I will further postulate that every vanilla possesses this same potential. If you have been appointed the protector of potential victims, I think it's a safe assumption that you have a pretty full schedule. I think you do submissives a grave disservice, however, when you draw conclusions that predispose their inability to look after their own best interests. Contrary to popular fiction, rarely are submissives incapable of making their own decisions when it comes to choosing a dominant. Believe me, if they were that easy to "exploit", toy would have more help with the laundry. Since your position and your tagline are in apparent opposition, perhaps you would prefer to restate your position and thereby avoid the appearance of contradiction. Timothy

JustaTop -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 8:58:55 PM)
The long and short of it is: "You get what you invite"

strongnsubmissiv -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 10:27:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176 If "stating it up front doesn't make it right", then is it fair to assume that you have been appointed final arbiter of what is right? Your position indicates that you have declared that this is wrong under any circumstances, including willing consent from both involved parties. My question is a simple one, on what basis have you determined that two consenting adults are not free to choose the basis for their own dynamic? I never proclaimed to being the holy keeper of all things right Timothy. I merely expressed a dislike for this particular demand. Not because it's wrong for consenting adults but because the theme of this site is BDSM. Personally i fail to see how paying someone's debts, in such an upfront and calculated way has anything to do with our theme here at all. Far be it from me however to determine what BDSM is and isn't. I've only expressed an opinion. It's neat now we can do that here in a forum. quote: I think you do submissives a grave disservice, however, when you draw conclusions that predispose their inability to look after their own best interests. Contrary to popular fiction, rarely are submissives incapable of making their own decisions when it comes to choosing a dominant. Believe me, if they were that easy to "exploit", toy would have more help with the laundry. I'm sorry, i fail to see where i've painted all submissives with the same brush. shrug quote: Since your position and your tagline are in apparent opposition, perhaps you would prefer to restate your position and thereby avoid the appearance of contradiction. Timothy ...erm.. no thanks... i'm quite content with my position. I will say though i'm quite impressed by your diction, it's very eloquent. The content however, doesn't really agree with me. Still, it's great how a forum can provide us with a place where we can express opinion. sns

brightspot -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/14/2005 11:27:25 PM)
Myself....I was disapointed to see both the artistic expression boards go, yet the Professional Services one remain[&:]. *Brightspot

krys -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/15/2005 2:10:56 AM)
Someone, sub or otherwise, who has managed to reach a fiscal position in their life where they would be able to pay off $18K in someone else's debt has probably been around the block a few times. Consequently, they are probably also unlikely to seek the guidance and control of someone who has thusfar not figured out how to take care of themselves.

sting516 -> RE: Thought i'd seen it all till... (10/15/2005 4:40:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domtimothy46176 Having read through the entire thread, I thought I would throw in my perspective. I've read profiles of those who make it clear they expect to be provided for by someone who's "financially secure" and I've read profiles of those who claim to be "financially secure" and looking for someone to provide for. Regardless of how it impacts a third party's sensibilities, the fact is, there are people who put themselves out for rent and people looking for someone to rent. I may or may not find such an approach suitable for myself, but I'm not being asked for my blessings, either. I don't find the given example unethical. I personally point out in my profile that I make no promises other than the opportunity to serve with honor. I don't promise sex, play or love. Is it unethical for me to advertise for someone to serve as an unpaid maid? Perhaps for some it is. If someone accepted such a post within my household after being assured that I meant exactly what I wrote, have I taken advantage of them by accepting their service? In the eyes of some, probably so. We each are looking for someone who meets our needs. Regardless of what those needs may be, we should each be able to judge for ourselves who best meets those needs. As to the question of buyer's remorse, we're all adults and those of us who don't use good judgement can either take responsibility for our failings or we can blame the one who accepted what we willingly offered. The person that forks over $18K for the opportunity to serve a domme may well live to regret it but is his remorse any more or less poignant than that of any other disillusioned soul? Whether it's money or a broken heart, folks suffer the consequences of their actions every day. I guess I just get puzzled when I see this question treated like it's any different than any other question of compatability. I want a slave who understands that I may never lay a finger on her unless it suits my purposes. Most females out there find that to be at odds with their desires and so they do not line up at my door begging to serve my household. They don't act like I'm trolling for suckers who don't know any better. In the same way, when I see a slave advertising for an owner who will love and cherish her, I don't point out that, according to my requirements, love and affection are not a proper foundation for an owner/property dynamic. I just pass them over and respect their right to seek out what they want and need. If you find it distasteful, you're free to choose to avoid such an arrangement. So why all the vitriol? Timothy i guess my question to that would be....what makes you think you'll actually get to serve this 'Domme' once her bills are paid? sting

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