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RE: Death, taxes and hijacks - healthcare - 5/5/2008 3:13:55 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Funny Hippie, almost every other incantation of that word root 'vita' seems to have retained the 'a' at the end. Like in vital and vitality.

If the root is vita, then the rest of it is min, the word root for mineral, mining, notice how one word has the min root and then different letters, like min-eral and min-ing.

However wiki seems to support your claim, but only very weakly -

"Polish biochemist Kazimierz Funk isolated the same complex of micronutrients and proposed the complex be named "Vitamine" (a portmanteau of "vital amine") in 1912.[11] The name soon became synonymous with Hopkins' "accessory factors", and by the time it was shown that not all vitamins were amines, the word was already ubiquitous."

I erred, I forgot to mention that nitrogen is in them as well. Big deal, and there is even one of the B vitamins with sulfur in it.

Hippie, as you seem to be some sort of expert, have a look at the chemical formulae for those vitamins you can find. Now tell me what would happen if you dropped these substances into a vat of damnear pure hydrochloric acid.

I know how hard it must be for people with years of indoctrination, oops, schooling, to see any ideas outside of the mainstream. I am just stupid, stupid for bringing this up. For 47 years I guess I have been chasing rainbows. No knowledge here. It does not conform so it must be wrong. Perhaps I'll drop the whole fucking thing.

Have fun at the doctor's and dentist's offices.

T

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Death, taxes and hijacks - healthcare - 5/5/2008 3:21:08 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Come on termy this is ridiculous. You claim an age of 47. Without great nutrition and excellent health care including public health stuff like vaccines and sewage treatment you'd be well past the average life span. Type II Diabetes, the kind adults get, is a disease of excess not one of malnutrition. Heart Disease ditto.

Infant mortality rate? You're really serious? How many people know someone who lost a child in the first year? Now dig out your family bibles or genealogies and check out how many of your direct ancestors lost babies in the first year. In the US infant mortality was 6.4 per 1000 live births in 2007. In South Africa in 2007 it was 59.5 per 1000 live births. Doing a little checking I find that in 1927 the infant mortality rate in the US was 65 per 1000 live births. So in 80 years we've cut the infant mortality rate in this nation by 90%. Obviously malnutrition is to blame for this.

There are people who want to continue selling snake oil to the gullible so they have to try and convince people that things are awful but really they're not. Eat a varied diet. Steam your veggies rather than boiling. Make sure your diet includes at least one serving of bright green veggie a day. Learn what a 2000 calorie a day diet is and don't overeat, easier said than done I know, and your health problems are very unlikely to be dietary or nutritional.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Death, taxes and hijacks - healthcare - 5/5/2008 3:45:30 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Funny Hippie, almost every other incantation of that word root 'vita' seems to have retained the 'a' at the end. Like in vital and vitality.

If the root is vita, then the rest of it is min, the word root for mineral, mining, notice how one word has the min root and then different letters, like min-eral and min-ing.

However wiki seems to support your claim, but only very weakly -

"Polish biochemist Kazimierz Funk isolated the same complex of micronutrients and proposed the complex be named "Vitamine" (a portmanteau of "vital amine") in 1912.[11] The name soon became synonymous with Hopkins' "accessory factors", and by the time it was shown that not all vitamins were amines, the word was already ubiquitous."

I erred, I forgot to mention that nitrogen is in them as well. Big deal, and there is even one of the B vitamins with sulfur in it.

Hippie, as you seem to be some sort of expert, have a look at the chemical formulae for those vitamins you can find. Now tell me what would happen if you dropped these substances into a vat of damnear pure hydrochloric acid.

I know how hard it must be for people with years of indoctrination, oops, schooling, to see any ideas outside of the mainstream. I am just stupid, stupid for bringing this up. For 47 years I guess I have been chasing rainbows. No knowledge here. It does not conform so it must be wrong. Perhaps I'll drop the whole fucking thing.

Have fun at the doctor's and dentist's offices.

T
Oh, I'm no expert. Just the first time around in Uni my major was Chem, minor Math(s).

Thiamine and Biotin both contain sulfur. So do onions and garlic.
The B-12s contain phosphorus and cobalt.

You wouldn't be able to get near a "vat" of 12 Normal HCl. HCl, although a strong acid, is not as corrosive as some other acids. It is also not as reactive as some other acids, such as sulfuric (H2SO4).
If you want to find out what would happen, check Chemical Abstracts.

Vitamins have nothing to do with minerals, either in the real world or linguistically. It is as I said.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/vitamin-b.htm
Vitamin C, Ascorbic acid, is not an amine; it is a carboxylic acid.

Thinking outside the "mainstream" is great, but goofy-assed crackpot "ideas" that have no basis in the real universe; i.e., physics, work best in Science Fiction. So, with what you say in the paragraph just before the "doctor/dentist office" remark, whatever that means, I have to agree wholeheartedly.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Death, taxes and hijacks - healthcare - 5/5/2008 9:54:51 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Well Hippie I don't know if I want to continue this argument any further. I will tell you why - I don't want any animousity. There is none now as far as I am concerned and we might as well keep it that way.

The way you attack my statements on this subject indicate to me that you are not completely assured of your beliefs. Otherwise you would never spend the time and trouble to debunk me, which you have not.

So I got you telling me I am full of shit, another guy who says we must be in great health because the average height of one of our sheeple is up by an inch and who knows who is going to walk in and call me a conspiracy theorist.

But you know what, I will be happy to be friendless when I am 90 because everybody refused to listen. You will all be gone and I will still have all my teeth and hair. But be happy, have a donut. Drink a five pound bag of sugar for all I care.

I refuse to impose myself on people who do not want to hear it.

But see they are always right. Like that thimerosal had nothing to do with autism. Well anyone out there with autistic kids, get on the bandwagon because there are going to be lawsuits.

Peter Keisler, a US assistant attourney general disclosed that HHS's Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation had reviewed a case and concluded that compensation was appropriate.

I brought this up a while back, and people told me I was full of shit. Oh they were nice about it, but the question now stands : Was I right then or am I right now ?

Like in a court, a lawyer or whatever examining a witness might say "Were you wrong then or are you wrong now ?". Same thing.

I might note at this time that the manufacturers did not pay the settlement, taxpayers did.

Now if you can't see how that opens doors for a plethora of lawsuits, I have a question.

What is the area code for south Mars ?

T

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Death, taxes and hijacks - healthcare - 5/5/2008 10:50:26 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Well Hippie I don't know if I want to continue this argument any further. I will tell you why - I don't want any animousity. There is none now as far as I am concerned and we might as well keep it that way.
Nor do I, right now. I'm feelin' mellow. It's not an argument. Argument means there are differing opinions. Chemistry is not an opinion. The Ideal gas Law isn't an opinion. Dissociation constants (which is how one knows what is a strong acid or weak acid) are not opinion. Radioactive decay is not an opinion - it's basic calculus. I could, of course, go on.

quote:

The way you attack my statements on this subject indicate to me that you are not completely assured of your beliefs. Otherwise you would never spend the time and trouble to debunk me, which you have not.
You could not be more wrong. I am right, there's no two ways about it. As I said, chemistry (a part of physics, really) is what it is. You either know it or you don't. Telling yourself you are thinking outside the box is delusional. I spend the time with you, like I spend the time with people on Bondage.com, because I want them to have at least a minimal understanding of the subject. I haven't "debunked" you; I have corrected you.

quote:

So I got you telling me I am full of shit, another guy who says we must be in great health because the average height of one of our sheeple is up by an inch and who knows who is going to walk in and call me a conspiracy theorist.
Problem is, DomKen is right. Our current longevity is due primarily to advances in Public Sanitation. The average height of all Americans is up due to better, more balanced nutrition. However, it is decreasing due to income inequality (see: Gingrich, "Contract on America")(joke).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/apr/04/usa

quote:

But you know what, I will be happy to be friendless when I am 90 because everybody refused to listen. You will all be gone and I will still have all my teeth and hair. But be happy, have a donut. Drink a five pound bag of sugar for all I care.
Why do you believe you will live until 90?

quote:

I refuse to impose myself on people who do not want to hear it.
You do, anyway, just by posting.

quote:

But see they are always right. Like that thimerosal had nothing to do with autism. Well anyone out there with autistic kids, get on the bandwagon because there are going to be lawsuits.
Who is "they"? What studies indicate thimerosal is causative vis-a-vis Autism? The fact that there are class-action suits and some defendants cave doesn't mean the "science" behind the suits is correct. 

quote:

Peter Keisler, a US assistant attourney general disclosed that HHS's Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation had reviewed a case and concluded that compensation was appropriate.
Can you stay focused on one thing? You jump around from subject to subject like a Kangaroo on Crank. Vitamins, remember?

quote:

I brought this up a while back, and people told me I was full of shit. Oh they were nice about it, but the question now stands : Was I right then or am I right now ?

Like in a court, a lawyer or whatever examining a witness might say "Were you wrong then or are you wrong now ?". Same thing.

I might note at this time that the manufacturers did not pay the settlement, taxpayers did.

Now if you can't see how that opens doors for a plethora of lawsuits, I have a question.

What is the area code for south Mars ?
Or maybe like Fred MacMurray with the flubber attached to his shoes.

T


< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 5/5/2008 10:59:56 PM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Death, taxes and hijacks - healthcare - 5/6/2008 8:02:19 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Thimerosal does not cause autism. I'm so confident on this I'll bet any amount of money on the subject. Thimerosal was removed from all childhood vaccines quite some time ago and autism rates are still the same.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Death, taxes and hijacks - healthcare - 5/6/2008 12:04:01 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
I started my folly into this totally dead end philosophy a long long time ago and it has hurt me apparently. I have never had a broken bone, even though I have been in quite a few very bad car/truck wrecks and fights. I have never lost a tooth, even though I have not seen a dentist in decade, and have been hit in the teeth with a six foot two by four in the projectile mode, that is I got hit by the end. I got shot in the face and no longer have a left sinus, and after losing probably a third of my blood and having a bunch of broken ribs, my poor health prolonged my hospital stay to five days ! That wrecked my weekend.

Hmmmm....

That's been bugging me.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Death, taxes and hijacks - healthcare - 5/6/2008 10:11:55 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		DK, I kinda wonder what you mean by that. But no problem..

Hippie, simple chemistry will not help you understand all the complex processes in the human body. If you understood all of that the world would be awaiting your thesis, and you would be foremost in the field.

Neither one of you should be here arguing with a lowlife like me. And it is an argument, but a civil one. In fact an argument is also a term for a certain type of equation.

I should probably recuse myself from this thread, because the fact of the matter is I am not going to convince anyone I am right and nobody is going to similarly change my course.

As such the words are wasted. So it might just be better to go find greener pastures and newer arguments.

T

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Death, taxes and hijacks - healthcare - 5/7/2008 1:47:35 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

This brings up another one. I have known alot of people with dogs. The healthiest ones did not get table scraps, and if they did it was like the core of a head of lettuce, carrot ends, things like that. I don't hear about alot of triple bypasses being done on animals. Shouldn't that be telling us something ?

Dogs don't even brush their teeth, but they usually keep them a long time.


Dogs quite often suffer from coronary disease that leads to death at an early age due to infection caused from dental disease, secondary cause is untreat cancers ..large breeds should be living close to 20 years.. small breeds  till 30 they don't because they are often denied appropriate  health care as well most kibble diets do not meet their protein requirements..but how many people are going to spend thousands on their pets for healthcare   most vets won't even recommend bloodwork annually or other health test because they know most owner would look at the vet like they are insane for suggesting,  in some ways a bit sad because unless the owner understands something about veterinary medicine they might not know to ask for certain tests or think a problenm is sufficient enough to mention to a vet for example may not pick up every thing in a year exam  such as changes in behaviour which could be signs of disease, since the vet does not live with the dog  they may not pick up physical signs of hypothryroidism and the major symptom could be behaviour change or considerable change in energy which too many owners believe to be old age even as young as 7, some physical changes may be subtle or found during grooming which the vet may miss such as  a lump which could be skin cancer...cure rate can be extremely good when caught early  but often deadly by the time to vet  may note. .    Nowadays many vets do recommend that owners  brush dogs teeth  ...look at the lifespan of a dog and a human ... enamel bone and gums is structually the same in both dog and man, dogs do not need to have their teeth last 80 years  which is why not as much emphasis is put on dogs teeth though slowly changing.       One of my dogs has very little enamal on his teeth and they are extremely porous even with brushing he needs dentals cleaning done to remove excess tartar every year to help prevent infection that could damage his heart and liver, actually they need to be done every 6 months but we have to weigh the anesthesia risks ...this year at 12 years old he will be going to specialist to have all his teeth removed as there is concerns about the risk of him continually going under anesthesia now that he is older  ..as sometimes he require more often that annually if he injures a limb, back or if his appetite falls of inorder to double check on his spleen to see if it is causing a blockage  his spleen tissue is health and functioning but for some weird it continues to grow roughly 3 to 4 times the size of normal .  My other dog that is 13 has had 2 dentals with about 16 teeth removed due to rotting below the gum line,  I can tell when she has bad teeth because she starts going off her kibble --as it hurts her  to chew,.  Because my 13 year old   has always refuses to eat raw meat and vegetables  I have maintained my  crew on kibble diets , but if they went allowed to eat a  raw whole prey diet and some veggies instead of a kibble ,similiar to what wild canines eat  they would never require dentals unless they suffered an accident  like breaking a tooth , because no tartar would form, kibble diets are extremely bad for most dogs teeth  ...take a look at any 4 or 5 year old dogs  back molars on the outside,  there is usually a thick buildup of grey or brownish color tartar on those molars  if the gums are reddened around the teeth that is the signs of peridontal disease starting,  most need dental cleaning after  5  years if they are eatring a kibble diet .. more frequnetly  after as they   age because the enamel wears down. 



_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Death, taxes and hijacks - healthcare - 5/7/2008 5:55:00 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

DK, I kinda wonder what you mean by that. But no problem..

I was just curious when ribs stopped being bones.

{quote]Hippie, simple chemistry will not help you understand all the complex processes in the human body. If you understood all of that the world would be awaiting your thesis, and you would be foremost in the field.
I'm not sure biochemistry is simple but it certainly does explain all that. If you're actually curious I can point you to tons of good rersources including fascinating blogs by working scientists.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Death, taxes and hijacks - healthcare - 5/7/2008 8:58:34 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		DK, I'll give you that one. I had completely forgotten about it.

But how many times have you smoked a cigarette with a 200 lb Man standing on your chest ? I did it at least three or four dozen times before that last time.

Yes, the truth goes against me in this case, therefore I stand corrected.

Actually I still think it would not have happened if we had not just previously burned a left hander.

I might even stand double corrected, when I got shot it was for refusing to die, I was beaten and kicked around by three guys before I got shot. The Xrays showed cracked ribs, but not actually broken. At least not displaced. So does it count or not ? I guess we would have to see all the Xrays to know. If we can read them properly. There is a bit of talent involved in that.

I would love to have those Xrays right now, in fact let me ask y'all a question.

I went to the nearest hospital when I got shot, and got out of there as quickly as possible. I collected up my Xrays to take to another doctor, an ENT specialist and left them with him. Details on request, but for other reasons I would very much like to have those Xrays.

Is it possible that someone might archive these things on microfilm or something ? I'd pay good money for them, or basically copies of them.

Anyway, maybe somehow in my mind I somehow excluded ribs. Perhaps because some people break them very easily and a hell of alot of people have had broken ribs.

Whatever, I yield the floor.

T

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Death, taxes and hijacks - healthcare - 5/7/2008 11:00:17 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		All right then Term. Here you prove a very useful fact when dealing with psuedo science and why anecdotes are considering the very poorest of evidence in favor of something.

You prescribe to whatever nutritional quack fed you the SD264 and related nonsense. You're convinced you're healthier than someone who doesn't follow this quack(s). So you proclaim that since you started following this regime you haven't broken any bones, with the underlying assumption that this is both normal for the followers of your regime and unusual in the population as a whole, while discounting your actual broken bones to the point that you could literally contradict yourself inside a single paragraph. So your anecdote has at least three things wrong with it, it's not actually true factually and both underlying assumptions are at best unproven.

This is precisely why anecdotal evidence isn't regarded as useful to science. This applies to a broad spectrum of psuedo scientific controversies around recently. Vaccines and autism, silicone breast implants and all the various quackeries often called 'alternative medicine' are all scientifically disproven but continue chugging along due to people believing anecdotes and people's needs to explain the bad things that sometimes simply happen.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Death, taxes and hijacks - healthcare - 5/7/2008 2:31:03 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

DK, I kinda wonder what you mean by that. But no problem..

I was just curious when ribs stopped being bones.

quote:

Hippie, simple chemistry will not help you understand all the complex processes in the human body. If you understood all of that the world would be awaiting your thesis, and you would be foremost in the field.

I'm not sure biochemistry is simple but it certainly does explain all that. If you're actually curious I can point you to tons of good rersources including fascinating blogs by working scientists.

My big hangup right now is understanding ion channels. I kinda sorta have a basic understanding, but not to the point where I can visualize what is going on, like I can with the position probability
of electrons in, say, polyaromatic hydrocarbs/pyridines/indoles and so on. 

< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 5/7/2008 2:32:02 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Death, taxes and hijacks - healthcare - 5/7/2008 3:53:30 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		First off, I have to say I want to try that concoction of Pahunk's.  It sounds really good to me.  My wife and I cut margarine out of our diets over a year ago and will not even allow it in the house.  Why?  Because it is not food.  It was first marketed as a food supplement for cattle ... who turned out to be smart enough not to eat it. 
My allergies and other health problems are growing less as time passes.  Was it only the margarine?  Hell no.  We also started growing a lot more of our own foods.
DK, not all alternative medicines have been disproven.  Even doctors now recommend things that were scoffed at 10 years ago.  Chiropractic care and acupuncture are both recommended by doctors to treat certain problems now.  In fact, my wife's carpal tunnel treatment was acupuncture.  Her doctor recommended it over the operation and it worked.  Sometimes it can't be explained but it doesn't prove it wrong either.
Oh... and if a pill for headaches causes nausea and anal seepage, what the hell good is it?  I'll stick with the headaches.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Death, taxes and hijacks - healthcare - 5/7/2008 9:04:09 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Do I really need to explain the placebo effect?

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 35
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