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trust - 10/16/2005 1:14:30 AM   
hotsweet19


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what would you advise a slave to do if she found out the 8 month relationship with her master was based on a lie.he was seeing others without her knowledge.i would apperciate any advice
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 1:33:26 AM   
Wolfie648


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quote:

what would you advise a slave to do if she found out the 8 month relationship with her master was based on a lie.he was seeing others without her knowledge.i would apperciate any advice


Define slave - personally I like to use websters or oxford. Which pretty much says a slave has NO rights.

In the general (not all of the) BDSM community the word slave is taken to mean far less. I would ask yourself what the terms of your agreement were/are and whether he broke the agreement. Understand that some dom/mes/owners and slaves have an ability with words to twist. Listen to yourself, your heart and do not doubt it.

You know if you should stay with this person or not and you should be prepared for the consequences if you do.

or don't,

D (owner of j)

< Message edited by Wolfie648 -- 10/16/2005 1:36:26 AM >

(in reply to hotsweet19)
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 1:44:17 AM   
domtimothy46176


Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hotsweet19

what would you advise a slave to do if she found out the 8 month relationship with her master was based on a lie.he was seeing others without her knowledge.i would apperciate any advice


Assuming we're talking about an actual lie, where the dominant specifically told the submissive that under no circumstances would he see others during the course of the relationship with the submissive, then I would end the relationship. My reasoning for this is very simple: If I state that I will not do X, Y or Z during a relationship, doing either X, Y or Z signals an end to that relationship, by definition. Likewise, if I state that I will not tolerate X, Y or Z and find that my partner has done one of them, that signals to me that they are no longer prepared to maintain the relationship according to the agreed terms.

Having said that, however, it's been my personal experience that such situations are often not so cut and dried. Before I packed my bags, I would first assure myself that there was no misunderstanding that could be rectified. While people can and do lie to achieve gratification, many are woefully inept at clearly stating their goals, intentions, limits and expectations. I see more cases of "I thought we had an understanding" than I do of "The bastard told me a bald-faced lie".

YMMV
Timothy

(in reply to hotsweet19)
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 3:38:25 AM   
Focus50


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From: Newcastle, Australia
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I'd give her the same advice I'd give a 41yo vanilla....

Only you know what's best for you but if this particular relationship dynamic isn't what you signed up for, and especially if it's making you miserable, you should get out.

Seems to me that "seeing others" is something you were entitled to know going in! Btw, welcome to the Forums....

Focus.

(in reply to hotsweet19)
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 4:27:08 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Seeing others without her knowledge is not necessarily the same thing as lying. If he led her to believe that he was not going to see anyone else without her knowledge, then I agree that he was being dishonest. But if he made it clear from the outset that she would not be the only person he might see, then he wasn't being dishonest.

But all that is irrelevant. The decision is in your heart. If you want to continue the relationship, knowing that he considers it his privilege to see others without your knowledge, then do so. Some people accept that. Most don't.

My only advice, if you do continue the relationship, is to ask him for specific guidelines about involving other people, and decide whether you can accept them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hotsweet19

what would you advise a slave to do if she found out the 8 month relationship with her master was based on a lie.he was seeing others without her knowledge.i would apperciate any advice


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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 6:11:11 AM   
smilezz


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In the grand scheme of things..........it all boils down to choice. What you can and can not live with.

~smilezz~

_____________________________

=It's not my fault that when I was a baby I was dropped in a box of Glitter & I have been shinin' ever since=

�*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,-:* �

(in reply to hotsweet19)
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 6:53:06 AM   
stormie


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Joined: 4/29/2004
From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hotsweet19

what would you advise a slave to do if she found out the 8 month relationship with her master was based on a lie.he was seeing others without her knowledge.i would apperciate any advice


Welcome to the Forum. This is something no one can do but you. It also depends on the fondation You and He sat down before hand. Trust is something that is hard to gain and without knowing the full Input of things It would be hard to offer advice unless Both were aware of things. As a slave If my Master decides to see others...well that is His right, but with our relationship is much different. I would have to say talk to him and find out somethings. Be honest and Open with Him and He you. Plus are you going on what others told you or facts?....Is it something He came up with or Did you actually See Him with another?...There are a lot of things that can make one feel they are seeing others, But for me it would have to be Facts of my own knowledge, not that of others say so. I wish you the best of luck in all you do ...but please remeber He too is only human and can make mistakes as W/we all do.

GW's Pet
~stormie~


_____________________________

~Fire that Burns within, is a Great Servitude of submission~

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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 6:59:20 AM   
Theslavetrainer


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quote:

Define slave - personally I like to use websters or oxford. Which pretty much says a slave has NO rights.

I agree with Wolfie648's definition. If you are a slave then he has no obligation to be what you consider faithful. If he sees another while you are with him or he wishes to add another to the house, it is his choice alone. You must decide wheather or not you can handle this or not.

(in reply to hotsweet19)
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 8:51:12 AM   
krikket


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From: Washington, DC Metro Area
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The one word you used for the thread title "trust" pretty much sums it up. In my own relationships, unless i can trust what someone tells me, trust their integrity, then there's no relationship. If, after careful thought, you can still trust him (and only you will know the answer to that question), then you have your answer.

Good luck!!

jimini

(in reply to Theslavetrainer)
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 9:00:55 AM   
FLButtSlut


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Your position as a slave matters little in your choice. Essentially, even if you, during the intitial stages, stated or implied that you wanted one on one, if he didn't tell you otherwise and just let you believe this would be the case, he was dishonest in my opinion.

The idea that as a slave, you have no rights is not how every M/s relationship works. Don't let anyone make you feel you have to accept this because you are a slave. It would be difficult for you to continue in this relationship even if you and your master talk and he says that he will stop seeing others because your trust has been violated, but not impossible. You have to do what is right for YOU, and only you knows what that is.

(in reply to krikket)
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 9:20:27 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Theslavetrainer

quote:

Define slave - personally I like to use websters or oxford. Which pretty much says a slave has NO rights.

I agree with Wolfie648's definition. If you are a slave then he has no obligation to be what you consider faithful. If he sees another while you are with him or he wishes to add another to the house, it is his choice alone. You must decide wheather or not you can handle this or not.

I agree with this except to say that a dominant who does things without giving information to the slave is being rash at best and completely ignorant at worse. I'm looking at this from a completely practical perspective- what if something went wrong? As in bad accident dead wrong? As in random drunk driver killed everyonei n the car wrong?

It's just stupid not to at least give people the basics of what's going on in your life. I can't imagine how a slave can serve to their best if they are kept completely ignorant of those aspects of your life.

I'm not suggesting a master needs to give a total play by play schedule of their lives to their slaves. But keeping them completely in the dark about what's going on seems a stupid way to go about building long term relationships.

(in reply to Theslavetrainer)
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 9:43:44 AM   
darkinshadows


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I completely agree with Em. To make that decision one has to at least know the basics of the TPE. If this Dom took on a slave, leaving her with the impression she was the only slave he would ever have and then this turns out to not be the case - then she is owned under pretense. Even as a slave who has no rights as is defined, it matters not, because the dominants already broken the contract. Thats why communication is paramount.

Peace and Love


_____________________________


.dark.




...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 8:30:42 PM   
OscarHargraves


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Let me ask a question. Does your use of the word trust mean that you had an agreement with this Master or just an assumption on your part? Did he indeed lie to you or are you the one who assumed that this was a 'monogomous' relationship? If he did promise to be 'true' to you then take the same actions you would if it was a Vanilla relationship. If he didn't then you might want to consider trying to open a clear channel of communication to work out your problems.

Good luck. I hope it all worrks out the way you want it too.


_____________________________

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

(in reply to hotsweet19)
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 9:36:50 PM   
candigirlll


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Joined: 4/22/2005
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it is true a *OWNED* slave has no righst i am slave and i am slave weather i have a Master or not.. i did not *become* a slave because someone else told me i was... and i am sure before she was *owned* she had a understanding with this man or she would feel so hurt... and just because is a D/M does not mean that he can do what ever he wants when he wants...i am slave but i am not unworthy.. as a matter of fact i am wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy more worthy than most of the Self proclaimed Doms i have met on this site... and part os owning a slave is not only that she serve and obey... but that in her doing so that her Master will also reward her in making her happy... we are slave... we are not stupid.. and we dont morph into this unfeeling creature... just because we wish to serve...


makayla

(in reply to krikket)
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 9:39:56 PM   
candigirlll


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Joined: 4/22/2005
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and i will also add that i am poly... and i love having sisters.. i do not think because a man loves or desires another female that he loves or desires me less... but i sick of people thinking just because a girl is slave that she has to take what ever is dumped on her...

(in reply to candigirlll)
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 10:12:39 PM   
kimmypuss


Posts: 47
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: candigirlll


quote:

... sick of people thinking just because a girl is slave that she has to take what ever is dumped on her...


Well, I certainly agree that nobody should have to take whatever is dumped on them.

"Slave" is a hell of a loaded word. To me, who does not relate to it much, if one willingly adopts "slavery" as their self image/role - are they not agreeing to exactly that - "to take what ever is dumped" on them, since one is a "slave" - by definition having no rights and choices other than those of the "owner"?

If the "slaves" here have another definition, I'd like to hear it cuz I know I do not understand it as a chosen way to live one's adult life 24/7, as I understand it from reading here and other places.


(in reply to candigirlll)
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 10:49:20 PM   
Wolfie648


Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Theslavetrainer

quote:

Define slave - personally I like to use websters or oxford. Which pretty much says a slave has NO rights.
I agree with Wolfie648's definition. If you are a slave then he has no obligation to be what you consider faithful. If he sees another while you are with him or he wishes to add another to the house, it is his choice alone. You must decide wheather or not you can handle this or not.

I agree with this except to say that a dominant who does things without giving information to the slave is being rash at best and completely ignorant at worse. I'm looking at this from a completely practical perspective- what if something went wrong? As in bad accident dead wrong? As in random drunk driver killed everyonei n the car wrong?

It's just stupid not to at least give people the basics of what's going on in your life. I can't imagine how a slave can serve to their best if they are kept completely ignorant of those aspects of your life.

I'm not suggesting a master needs to give a total play by play schedule of their lives to their slaves. But keeping them completely in the dark about what's going on seems a stupid way to go about building long term relationships.


I agree with the intent of what you are saying here - my slave did not become my slave because I walked up to her and told her so - there was a process. During that process she decided to consent - she decided that for her it was a reasonable thing to do. I didn't hide anything from her, nor she me. Had she lied to me I would have kicked her ass. Twice. And left. She probably would have done the same to me ;-) Except I still would have kicked her ass after she attacked me <insert boyish grin>.

D (owner of j)

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 11:14:00 PM   
angelic


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Joined: 1/24/2005
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Here is what i found for the definitiion of the word 'slave'

One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.
One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence: “I was still the slave of education and prejudice” (Edward Gibbon).
One who works extremely hard.
A machine or component controlled by another machine or component.

intr.v. slaved, slav·ing, slaves
To work very hard or doggedly; toil.
To trade in or transport slaves.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English sclave, from Old French esclave, from Medieval Latin sclvus, from Sclvus, Slav (from the widespread enslavement of captured Slavs in the early Middle Ages). See Slav.]
Word History: The derivation of the word slave encapsulates a bit of European history and explains why the two words slaves and Slavs are so similar; they are, in fact, historically identical. The word slave first appears in English around 1290, spelled sclave. The spelling is based on Old French esclave from Medieval Latin sclavus, “Slav, slave,” first recorded around 800. Sclavus comes from Byzantine Greek sklabos (pronounced sklävs) “Slav,” which appears around 580. Sklavos approximates the Slavs' own name for themselves, the Slovnci, surviving in English Slovene and Slovenian. The spelling of English slave, closer to its original Slavic form, first appears in English in 1538. Slavs became slaves around the beginning of the ninth century when the Holy Roman Empire tried to stabilize a German-Slav frontier. By the 12th century stabilization had given way to wars of expansion and extermination that did not end until the Poles crushed the Teutonic Knights at Grunwald in 1410. ·As far as the Slavs' own self-designation goes, its meaning is, understandably, better than “slave” it comes from the Indo-European root *kleu-, whose basic meaning is “to hear” and occurs in many derivatives meaning “renown, fame.” The Slavs are thus “the famous people.” Slavic names ending in -slav incorporate the same word, such as Czech Bohu-slav, “God's fame,” Russian Msti-slav, “vengeful fame,” and Polish Stani-slaw, “famous for withstanding (enemies).”

slave

adj : held in servitude; "he was born of slave parents" [syn: slave(a)] [ant: free] n 1: a person who is owned by someone 2: someone who works as hard as a slave [syn: striver, hard worker] 3: someone entirely dominated by some influence or person; "a slave to fashion"; "a slave to cocaine"; "his mother was his abject slave" v : work very hard, like a slave [syn: break one's back, buckle down, knuckle dow

slave

Jer. 2:14 (A.V.), but not there found in the original. In Rev. 18:13 the word
"slaves" is the rendering of a Greek word meaning "bodies." The Hebrew and
Greek words for slave are usually rendered simply "servant," "bondman," or
"bondservant." Slavery as it existed under the Mosaic law has no modern
parallel. That law did not originate but only regulated the already existing
custom of slavery (Ex. 21:20, 21, 26, 27; Lev. 25:44-46; Josh. 9:6-27). The
gospel in its spirit and genius is hostile to slavery in every form, which
under its influence is gradually disappearing from among men.

no where does it say he gets to lie to her and use that word as an excuse to do so!

but it's just my opinion, of course!

(in reply to Wolfie648)
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 11:24:02 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
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Here's Webster's definition:

Main Entry: 1slave
Pronunciation: 'slAv
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sclave, from Old French or Medieval Latin; Old French esclave, from Medieval Latin sclavus, from Sclavus Slavic; from the frequent enslavement of Slavs in central Europe
1 : a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
2 : one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence
3 : a device (as the printer of a computer) that is directly responsive to another
4 : DRUDGE, TOILER
- slave adjective

and Oxford's

slave /sleIv/ noun, verb
noun
1 a person who is legally owned by another person and is forced to work for them: She treated her daughter like a slave.
2 ~ of / to sth a person who is so strongly influenced by sth that they cannot live without it, or cannot make their own decisions: We are slaves of the motor car. Sue’s a slave to fashion.
3 (technical) a device that is directly controlled by another one
verb [v, usually + adv. / prep.] ~ (away) (at sth) to work very hard: I’ve been slaving away all day trying to get this work finished. I haven’t got time to spend hours slaving over a hot stove (= doing a lot of cooking).


i did not see in any of these definition that a 'slave' should be lied to... or am i missing something here?

(in reply to angelic)
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RE: trust - 10/16/2005 11:51:11 PM   
Wolfie648


Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
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quote:

i did not see in any of these definition that a 'slave' should be lied to... or am i missing something here?


You are missing (in my small world view) that a slave has no rights (including the right to not be lied to).

I posted this to a different topic earlier today regarding a dominant putting a cigarette out on a "slave":

"It's not abuse if a slave has consented to be a slave. The black (negro?) slaves in the US (worldwide of whatever race) would have been laughed at (minimum) if they complained to anyone, legal or not, about what their master did to them. The difference between a lifestyle slave and the black slaves is that a lifestyle slave has given informed (hopefully) consent. What happened to the black slaves was plain wrong.

Now I'll be the first to admit that this is my interpretation but most dictionary's agree with me (not that they intended to ;-). www.dictionary.com doesn't quite hit it but "The new Lexicon Webster's Dictionary of the English Language 1988 Edition" has this to say:

slave: (sleiv) 1. n. a person who is the property of, and completely subject to, another // a person victimized by another --posters note (oooh that sounds so sexy)-- // (etc.
not relevant.

property: (properti:) ... n. a thing or things owned // real estate // (etc. not relevant)

Guess what I can do with real estate I own. I can ignore and let it grow over, I can dig holes in it, I can plant a rose garden, I could sell it. I could do nuclear tests in it (ok I don't have the resources for it but it was fun to say), I could donate it to charity, I could painstakingly tend every inch of it. I may or may not do any of those things, but it is my choice.

A submissive would certainly have the right to safeword before it touched the skin (after as well I suppose, but at that point why bother safewording? ;-)

D (owner of j)

(in reply to angelic)
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