RE: a thing called subspace

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innocentangel -> RE: a thing called subspace (7/22/2004 10:53:02 AM)
quote: Can you really reach subspace through an IM conversation? i believe it can be possible to reach subspace through an IM conversation. but, i think it has a lot to do with the relationship between the Master and slave. if they share a tight enough bond, that she can hear His voice when reading His words. i do believe it can be possible to reach that level. Mind you, it might not be as deep as if they were together going through a scene in real life, but i believe it's a mindset. just some thoughts.......anxious to see what anyone else has to say. innocent angel

Voltare -> RE: a thing called subspace (7/22/2004 11:37:16 AM)
A few thoughts... First, I've never been in subspace. Everything I know about it, I get from what others have told me, and from what I've seen. I think anyone with a desire to endure any sort of pain can attain this sense (note desire.) I would suggest that the desire to suffer, for the sake of suffering, is what permits the sensation, but only specific types and degrees - otherwise we'd have everyone doing ritualistic self-mutilation just to get high, and spend more time hurting ourselves then we would working, eating, etc. I think that while it's possible to believe you are in subspace from IM, I would liken it more to a hypnotic or suggestible state that comes from emotional overload, etc. Most experienced players I know scoff at anything 'cyber' as being little more then mutual masterbation, but if there was no value or reaction to the activity, nobody would participate in it. I won't suggest that it's even in the same ballpark or league as the 'real thing' but for someone who is exploring fantasies of BDSM without the real time experiences (and the subsequent real time mistakes and problems associated with anything going wrong in the 'scene') it can seem very real, and sets the stage and fuel the desires to experience this sort of activity. There's a great deal of contriversy regarding subspace, I believe, and it's role within Master/slave relationships, vice Sadism and Masochism. I've heard it said that if a slave only wishes to spend her time writhing and shuddering in the throws of subspace extacy, she is essentially being selfish. One girl and I, in particular, had a serious fall out as I felt that she only desired my presence, so that she could 'feel' like a slave, and launch into this sensation - not unlike a vanilla man might use an woman just for sex. Obviously, your milage will vary on this issue. Stephan

ManeSlave -> RE: a thing called subspace (7/22/2004 11:46:23 AM)
[ORIGINAL: ScorpioMaster The best example of it is in the Movie called a man called Horse. This is an old movie with Peter Otool in it. He had his for slits cut through his pectoral muscles and two wooden pegs were slit through it. The four Leather strips were attached and he hangs from it. Scorpio.. For the record it was Richard Harris in the title role. No, matter, it gives me the creeps just thinking about it! ms

melycious -> RE: a thing called subspace (7/22/2004 1:12:16 PM)
~reposting something i wrote previously to another list.... *grins.. and the ferret has recovered fully.. as will my checkbook some day.. the kiddo graduated and the other one did awesome in her summer course LOL~ Coping or Cop-Out? ~grins~ amazing what an awesome weekend can do to ones writing volume! O.k. I’m driving home from the vet’s, and the thoughts are running crazy.. so I’ll throw them out there and see what kind of discussion we can get started, or who wants to pay for my mental health treatment. I think for the most part... I would have to consider myself a bottom, as opposed to a sub, and definitely, slave would never describe me. For the most part I’m content with this label (which works well as a label only in that it makes most of us have a common vocabulary); I say that, because I don’t want the discussion to get bogged down in the labeling section. I am a bottom simply because the part that makes me submissive doesn’t exist in my life right now. It’s a choice, between, not playing or playing, between being involved on a level that is comfortable to me, or not being involved at all. I have been submissive in the past, for someone who saw me in the role, it was a comfortable fine role, but it was definitely defined by who I was with and my thoughts about it, rather then any basic value on my submission. I know folks who truly are submissive, their submission spans time, person, place, it simply is... mostly I envy those folks, to be able to give in such a way, without feeling as though you are compromising or not conforming , must be a wonderful thing. Over the years, I have tried to be like that, only to discover it’s not me, I’m ok with this now. I also know folks who simply are bottoms, not submissive; they gain their pleasures from things other then giving up the control and finding peace in that. As with all things, this lifestyle, journey, whatever you want to call it, is always about what works for you, it’s individual and unique to the time, person and place. So I’m driving home from the vets, having left the poor sad very sick ferret there, for tests, x-rays etc, wondering how I will tell the child graduating from 6th grade tonight, that her beloved ferret is in the hospital and may not make it. Along with those thoughts, are jobs I need to finish, so they are out of the way, plans for my son’s upcoming graduation, and the resulting crush of relatives that will be descending on me, quickly followed by plans for my daughter leaving for a college summer course, at age 16, then to college orientation the following weekend, worried about friends who are struggling at the moment, coupled with all those day to day things, such as groceries, laundry etc. Nothing really all that new or different, just life, with all its turns and issues that we all deal with. As I’m coming up with a plan to deal with all of those things... here is my thought... how I wish, I could find a few days, hide away.and totally submit, to be nothing but there, to give without thought, without cost, to exist for someone elses pleasure.. I call it sinking into submission, and I was almost giddy at the thought of it. It’s not something I want to do day in and day out, but at this point, it seemed so basic and critical to my life that even I was stunned. Which led me to the question, are these thoughts a way to cope, or a way to cop-out? Does wanting this make me less capable? Am I looking for a way to not cope? Or am I simply using tools at my disposable to find order in my life? As with all things, I will find the answers, but it occurred to me, that it was a good discussion ………… are there times when sinking into submission is the same thing as sinking into a large blender full of margaritas? Is it bad? Good? Does it make you a wanttobe?

MrThorns -> RE: a thing called subspace (7/22/2004 1:24:02 PM)
I think this is one of the reasons there are so many professionals...who are required to be in control in their day to day lives...that choose to submit. It is a release of control. Problem is...too many people think that it is a release of responsibility. I don't think that delving deep into the roots of submission is coping or copping out.....if your intent is pure. If you want to sink to that deep submission to aviod resposibility, avoid having control...then perhaps it is a coping mechanism. (I'm not saying its wrong to cope, btw.) What is your intent? Are you running? Or are you trying to find something more? ~Thorns

melycious -> RE: a thing called subspace (7/22/2004 1:42:20 PM)
I don't think that delving deep into the roots of submission is coping or copping out.....if your intent is pure. If you want to sink to that deep submission to aviod resposibility, avoid having control...then perhaps it is a coping mechanism. (I'm not saying its wrong to cope, btw.) What is your intent? Are you running? Or are you trying to find something more? ~Thorns [/quote] Nope not running, my day to day life runs as smoothly as ever, and sometimes i'm lookign for somethng more.. althou not as often anymore... mostly its just a place that is fun to go, but.. since i analyze everything, i have to look and make sure i'm not doing as a cop=out... Grins course.. as i have spent more time in the lifestyle as i describe it.. i find that space easier with less emotional attachment, which is both a good and not so good thing... mely

basiasubrosa -> RE: a thing called subspace (7/23/2004 3:17:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: January Which reminds me. Somebody mentioned rhythmic pain is good for getting to subspace. So can anyone tell me why you don't get to subspace when you give birth? Is there a doctor on the board? O, but some do indeed! Naturally, the body does release endorphins during birth. "Oxytocin" the birthing hormone and maternal hormone is also fondly dubbed "the loving hormone" because it brings about that feeling of bliss and contentment when released during childbirth, right afterward, and later during breastfeeding. The thing is that childbirth is so clinical-ized in hospital settings, women are rarely at comfort enough to let go. Drugs and all the apparati do not help to this end. Ob/Gyns are no longer trained to support a woman through childbirth-- they only know the clinical procedures, which more often than not lead to greater discomfort and greater need for more interventions. Some of the births i have attended have truly been beautiful and sublime to behold, because the mother was allowed to establish her own rhythm and enter an alternate space. Good midwives and doulas and childbirth educators are there to help it happen. Hopefully there will be more physicians following suit soon.

basiasubrosa -> RE: a thing called subspace (7/23/2004 3:33:45 AM)
quote: It is entirely possible that subspace is a function of childbirth, and that without the overload of endorphins the experience would be far more painful than it is. Part of why (overuse of) drugs and other interventions are so disruptive is because they 'knock out' and inhibit the woman's natural ability to release endorphins. The birth becomes increasingly painful and uncomfortable--> need more drugs and interventions, and on and on and on, until lo and behold-- oops! you "need" an epidural or emergency c-section, both of which lead to more pain and medication and physical damage later on.... quote: I say this because when my children were being born, the doctors for the first one were in a big fat hurry to knock my ex-wife out, give her pain killers, etc. I was under the distinct impression that her comfort and experience were near the bottom of the list of things her doctors gave a rat's keister about. In other words, the sooner she could be unconscious and the kid was in my arms, the sooner they could go back to talking about their golf game. Too prevalently true.... It is really disturbing how many physicians have no respect for childbirth, birthing mothers, or their families. Or have any idea how to support a birth at all...... quote: Pain management is a fairly new study in medicine, and I am not sure a predominantly male profession would have historically spent much time looking in to the hormonal stressors on a woman giving childbirth. That's why before the hospitalization of childbirth in the early Twentieth Century, births were for the most part attended by women who knew about pain management. It is also why, in many other developed nations, like the Netherlands, low-risk pregnancies are still relegated to the care of midwives.

tanna -> RE: a thing called subspace (7/23/2004 5:56:59 AM)
Subspace is a state of mind.. Finding that place within yourself. His voice or his touch being the most likely thing that put you there. Flying is what happens when the endorphins kick in. Sort of like being high. tanna

JinCap -> RE: a thing called subspace (7/23/2004 6:07:13 AM)
it may be for me, as Voltare suggest, a hypnotic state more so than what might be called "true" subspace. i'll accept that difference. but it is a psychological state, only induced in relation to Him, either via phone or IM. and that is good. that said, i don't think it would be possible to achieved this suggestive state if we did not also have r/l times together, which we do, just not as frequently as we'd like. [:)] jin

Clay1 -> RE: a thing called subspace (7/26/2004 6:50:52 PM)
I must say that I have definitely experienced subspace. I can only describe it as a rush, a desire to not turn back, but to move forward in the D/s relationship, a heart-pounding time with my mistress that is like a 30-foot leash by my "organ". I just find that extremely erotic, and if I were in real time while in subspace, there is no telling what my limits would be still under my mistress's control, of course. ~Clay~

theroebabe -> RE: a thing called subspace (7/26/2004 7:17:16 PM)
anger has heard of subspace but only briefly and wonders if A/any here know of it as well.........more or less, has any experienced it, and how can one experience it? sets back eagerly to await any replies to this thread......thank you for replying in advance!! lovingly- innocent angel Well i have not experienced sub space though the course of S&M play but have experienced a form of it through intense sexual play. I know i was enjoying all the moments but cannot remember a damn bit of what happened. For me it was one after another overwhelming sensations, i know i was making a lot of noise, and that i enjoyed it and thats all i can remember. This occurred on numerous occasions. During hard S&M play i have a need to be taken to the point of crying, sort of the need to be punished mentality during a scene. i do fade out if i have the right surroundings and usually music helps me concentrate my thoughts in a different manner. Not sure of this helps. just my two cents. Roe

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