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RE: Overcoming trust - 5/5/2008 8:34:05 AM   
Ialdabaoth


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Nah. I've been seeking treatment, actually. There's been all sorts of bureaucratic snafus, but I've definitely been seeking treatment.

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RE: Overcoming trust - 5/5/2008 8:42:59 AM   
OldBastardly1


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I feel ya. The "man" ...always trying to keep a brother down.

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"You cannot make footprints in the sands of time if you're sitting on your butt. And who wants to make buttprints in the sands of time?" -- Bob Moawad



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RE: Overcoming trust - 5/5/2008 8:53:23 AM   
Ialdabaoth


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Nah, that's an over-simplistic and adversarial view of it, when really it's just that the system is already so over-worked and under-funded that they don't have time to deal with the likes of me. And not having my papers in order (due to having been adopted, and having some weird birth-certificate anomalies as a result) doesn't help anything when one's choices are "don't seek help" or "seek government-sponsored free help".

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RE: Overcoming trust - 5/5/2008 9:11:43 AM   
Archer


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While there might be things beyond your control to handle quickly when it comes to the seeking treatment, there is nothing keeping you from not bringing an innocent person into your disfunction.

Handle your own mental health first then worry about finding someone, (note this will give you extra motivation to get your stuff in order quickly).

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RE: Overcoming trust - 5/5/2008 9:13:55 AM   
Ialdabaoth


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Oh; I know. I'm not intending on actually seeking out anyone, and have in fact been actively turning away offers. But damn if my thoughts haven't been terrifyingly, viciously non-consentual as of late.

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RE: Overcoming trust - 5/5/2008 9:20:35 AM   
OldBastardly1


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Honestly, you seem like a reasonably intelligent person. And there is nothing wrong with having issues. There have been times in my life where I didn't have issues....I had the entire subscription. The shame comes in when you *keep* the issues. I agree with Archer, don't get into another relationship until myou have you squared away.

I know that you are experiencing the stages of a hurtful breakup. My father taught a very valuable lesson many, many years ago, at a time when my heart was broken.
"It is better to lose at love, than to have never loved at all."

There will come a point in your life where you will be very happy with the person you have become. It takes every experience we have experienced, both good and bad, to make us the person we are. So lick your wounds, embrace the parts of the past where you were elated, and also value the bad times, because they will also enrich your life.

Now come here and give me a brotherly hug.

_____________________________

Old Bastard

"You cannot make footprints in the sands of time if you're sitting on your butt. And who wants to make buttprints in the sands of time?" -- Bob Moawad



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RE: Overcoming trust - 5/5/2008 9:24:30 AM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OldBastardly1

There will come a point in your life where you will be very happy with the person you have become. It takes every experience we have experienced, both good and bad, to make us the person we are. So lick your wounds, embrace the parts of the past where you were elated, and also value the bad times, because they will also enrich your life.


To be honest, this has always been my primary strategy - and something that people always love about me in the beginning, and hate about me in the end. I'm on the "experiential fast-tractk": I try everything, make as many intelligent mistakes as I can, and take notes. Then I go back and review, generate some conclusions from the results, and try again with a new angle towards testing out those conclusions. Repeat until I think I understand whatever I've thrown myself into, and then evaluate whether I enjoy it or not - at which point I either stick around and enjoy my newfound prowess, or move on and find something new and terrifying to try my adaptability against.

If that makes sense?

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RE: Overcoming trust - 5/5/2008 10:56:13 AM   
SteelofUtah


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

Let's say you have found yourself in a situation where, emotionally, you are utterly incapable of trusting. Essentially, it is inconceivable for you to believe that anyone has your best-interests at heart, and anyone who behaves as if they love you, respect you, enjoy your company, or want to belong to you is just setting you up. In essence, utter, vicious paranoia.

How does a Dominant proceed forward from here?


Okay Ialda,

This is a Fast Reply I have yet to read the rest of the advice you have been given however I wanted to give you a pure answer not one that deals with the other things people have said so if you get double up info I am sorry for this.

Trust is this Interesting thing. We like to give it a Tangiable Twist as if it is something that we can give and take when that isn't true. It can only be Given and Lost. Trust can never be regained it can only be given again and truth be told once lost it can never be regained.

Example: I steal you wallet and then when you ask about it I admit that I did and give you back your wallet and offer to pay you back the money that I stole. Over the next two years you come to relax and one day you leave you wallet at my house and when you come and get it it has $50.00 less than what you thought you had...... What do you think happened? Truth is You forgot you loaned your brother $50.00 and you figure this out quickly but you still went straight to me because I have a history and you still don't really trust me once it was lost it is gone forever.

Okay so lets go directly to your situation. You have decided to blame the world for the mistakes of a few. No woman is worth your trust because the women you have chosen so far have all done you wrong, You are so sure that every woman will do you wrong that subconciously you set up situations where they certainly will do you wrong. You never give them a reason to be trust worthy with you because you never offer a willingness to trust.

I only blame those who hurt me for what they did. Not every woman is going to use me for money, however I have learned that there are things to watch out for and then there is also paranoia. Just because a woman goes out with you without money doesn't mean she is onoly out for money maybe she assumed that you would pay for her. Be a gentleman and pay once then talk about your next date NEXT time set up a realistic situation in which you ask. "So if we go to Red Lobster we will be getting seperate checks right?" Or " I bought my ticket for the movie Last Night if you want I will wait for you inside till you get your ticket and then maybe we can split the popcorn and each get a soda for ourselves." Some women will see this as cheap, Others will see it as you not wanting to commit to a relationship, I see it as setting boundries.

Truth be told that is a Bad example because well some women just want to be wined and dined by thier guy it is how the choose a man, sad but true, most women DO want to be paid for, I have YET to meet a woman who wouldn't let me pay or who paid for me first. EVER.

Trust in Cheating is a little closer. One has to ask themselves when they have a history of women who cheat on them, they have to ask themselves what is the common denominator? If the woman always changes but the outcome stays the same you have to ask yourself what you do to perpetuate the problem? What about you, or the women you choose ends in infidelity?

I have come to learn that no matter the problem, no matter the situation I can always find myself to blame if for noting else for me putting myself in that situation. This is had to deal with at first if you blame yourself for everything you find you are rather hard on yourself and easy of others however after time you find where EXACTLY you were a fault and what you had no actual control over and since you had no control you cannot BLAME yourself for the entire situation but you can take responsibility for putting yourself in that situation and try not to do things like this again.

Trust us always something you FREELY GIVE!!!! It can never really be earned, Cause even the most TRUST worthy person may not be worth your trust because everyone is capable of hurting someone else and for any reason and at times they may not even know what they had done. So if you can't trust it is because you won't let yourself trust and you have only yourself to figure that out.

If you want to have a meaningful relationship you MUST HAVE TRUST because it is the foundation that a healthy relationship is built without Trust you will never have a foothold to start a future because nothing will stand up on a nonexistent foundation of worse a hollow foundation.

Think about it. Would you want to spend the rest of your life or even the next 6 months, hell, 6 HOURS with someone who didn't trust you? Well then why would you expect anyone to want to do the same with you?

As Always

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
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Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

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RE: Overcoming trust - 5/5/2008 10:59:56 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


To be honest, this has always been my primary strategy - and something that people always love about me in the beginning, and hate about me in the end. I'm on the "experiential fast-tractk": I try everything, make as many intelligent mistakes as I can, and take notes. Then I go back and review, generate some conclusions from the results, and try again with a new angle towards testing out those conclusions. Repeat until I think I understand whatever I've thrown myself into, and then evaluate whether I enjoy it or not - at which point I either stick around and enjoy my newfound prowess, or move on and find something new and terrifying to try my adaptability against.

If that makes sense?



This is not possible if you honestly believe this

quote:

Let's say you have found yourself in a situation where, emotionally, you are utterly incapable of trusting. Essentially, it is inconceivable for you to believe that anyone has your best-interests at heart, and anyone who behaves as if they love you, respect you, enjoy your company, or want to belong to you is just setting you up. In essence, utter, vicious paranoia.


If you genuinely believe you try a new angle then you must first be willing to TRUST the new beginning otherwise the Control starts without trust and thus the Control is a FAILED experiment.

Read my previous post.

Steel



_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Overcoming trust - 5/5/2008 11:05:45 AM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
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Maybe we're using different definitions of 'trust'. I always dive into situations, regardless of my trust or mistrust of them, because I acknowledge that I'm too finite and limited a being to know every possible outcome.

So maybe what it is that I've lost is actually "faith". I no longer have faith that long-term, genuine love is possible, and am contemplating a life without it.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Overcoming trust - 5/5/2008 11:39:37 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
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Now there are two very different situations Trust and Love and Faith and Trust.

Trust is believing that it CAN
Faith is knowing that it WILL

Love is something COMPLETELY different.

A relationship without love is possible. As long as both parties want the same thing.

What you talked about was Trust and Trust us something FAR from Love. The two are NOT exclusive.

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)
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RE: Overcoming trust - 5/5/2008 11:46:59 AM   
MasterFireMaam


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Therapy. Honestly.

Master Fire


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RE: Overcoming trust - 5/5/2008 3:57:11 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Trust is believing that it CAN
Faith is knowing that it WILL



Actually, I find this to be kind of wrong. Semantical? Sure, maybe, but I think its still ultimately important.

faith Mental acceptance of and confidence in a claim as truth without proof supporting the claim.
trust Confidence in or reliance on some person or quality.

I find faith to be the prerequisite to developing trust with a person you have no history or knowledge of. Hence, you have to have faith that the person will do action X before you have trust in the person that they will continue to do action X in the future.

Unfortunately, when it comes to blind faith, it almost always requires one to expose himself to risk.

Without a willingness to have faith in people, lower one's defenses, and risk being harmed or wronged, then you can't ever come to trust people and have good relationships. It's a very simple and obvious equation at work with human interaction.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 5/5/2008 4:03:00 PM >


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RE: Overcoming trust - 5/5/2008 6:10:09 PM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
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The other option for those who cannot afford therapy is to look in your local phone book for an A.C.O.A. meeting, Adult Children of Alcoholics. You can afford 50 cents towards the coffee. And this is, effectively, deep group therapy. Go and don't speak. Just sit in the back and listen for six months or so, and then go cry in your car, yell, scream etc with the music turned up until you get that night's worth of pain out. At the end of six months or so, you may feel able to speak. Or not.

But it works. The reason this keeps happening to you repeatedly is that you set it up this way. Why did you keep setting up these no-win situations? Family of origin issues. Perhaps an alcoholic mother, or a nonexistant father, or adopted after bouncing between foster homes. Get the pain out without worry, people at  ACOA have heard it all and ten times worse.

And don't keep looking for more people to love you temporarily so you can spread your intimacy around between them all, avoiding the risk of any one person becoming too important to you. That isn't poly, it's fear and it's unfair to do this to anyone. And for God's sake, don't have offspring until you've dealt with these issues because you'll pass this on to them and no innocent child deserves this.

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RE: Overcoming trust - 5/5/2008 6:13:10 PM   
OldBastardly1


Posts: 651
Joined: 7/22/2006
From: Atlanta, GA
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_____________________________

Old Bastard

"You cannot make footprints in the sands of time if you're sitting on your butt. And who wants to make buttprints in the sands of time?" -- Bob Moawad



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Profile   Post #: 35
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