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High Ceiling suspension? - 5/6/2008 6:38:37 PM   
Valsboytoy


Posts: 7
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline 		i have a question, and i figured this would be the place to ask it... 

my Mistress has just gotten an apartment, and wants to outfit it for suspension, but the ceiling is too high to easily fit with an anchor point. is there any way to suspend a sub safely using only wall anchor points?

thank Y/you for Y/your help!
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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/6/2008 7:08:36 PM   
azropedntied


Posts: 1829
Joined: 7/25/2005
From: Phx AZ
Status: offline 		I would not suggest you or Her drilling into the apt for ceiling suspension's unless you do not mind giving back the security deposit .Depending on if it is a second or third floor or ground floor unit , A simple cage can be constructed or use a piece of gym equipment .Last thing you want is to have the ceiling fall down or do damage to the apt .there is a company "that maybe still is open " called jim support  that also sells a sling rack that could be used and it is portable . the are located in palm springs  and shipping is available .Its a strong  unit too .

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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/6/2008 7:27:52 PM   
TheHungryTiger


Posts: 454
Joined: 3/9/2004
Status: offline 		Againt the wall? Maybee ..... but then thats not realy suspention as much as it is just simulating a StAndrews cross.

Free floating suspention? As in running a line between one wall and the oposite wall and suspending from that? Nope ..... The vector analasis of it gets into some math that is dificult to type out just using a keyboard. For a full explination you could pick up 'stage rigging handbook' by Jay Glerum and read the chapter on vertical and horizantal forces. It sounds ilogical but even a 100 pound force downward can result in a force of several tons pulling out on the wall.

Get a frame. Personaly I would suggest a hammock-chair frame. They are built to safely hold up the weight of a full human and it has an easy cover story.


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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/6/2008 7:40:46 PM   
Valsboytoy


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Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline 		Mistress would be willing to use multiple wall anchor points because they can be disguised as picture or plant hangars. also, Mistress does not want a frame, as they are unsightly and take up storage space.

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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/6/2008 7:41:49 PM   
Leatherist


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Status: offline 		Build a frame that bolts together.

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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/6/2008 10:16:54 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Actually there is an easier solution.

Don't use that room for suspension.

Vaulted Celings are BAD for suspension anyway because the Anchors are always being pulled down at an angle and have a history of being pulled from thier Anchor Points.

Use another room. Most places I have seen only have a Vaulted living room however if you are in a situation in which everyroom you have is vaulted the solution requires Equiptment. Suspension on a Vertical Wall is simply lifting it isn't quite suspension as you always have the wall against your back you never get the full feel of suspension also you run the gambit of abnormal muscle strains and nerve pinches as the body is held differently when lifted against a wall.

If she is willing to use a Rack by Modifying the Bed frame to add a Pyramid shape conection points that can mount to a frame then I will be starting a project in 3 months where I modify a standard Bed frame to become a Suspension Harness setup complete with Ratchet Pully for quick hold and quick release.

Steel

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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/11/2008 6:03:04 PM   
MisPandora


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From: Philadelphia, PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Valsboytoy

Mistress would be willing to use multiple wall anchor points because they can be disguised as picture or plant hangars. also, Mistress does not want a frame, as they are unsightly and take up storage space.

Suspending?  From a wall?

Surely, you must be referencing her wanting to restrain you, not SUSPEND YOU OFF THE FLOOR by a wall.

Is that what you were meaning?

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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/11/2008 7:28:30 PM   
Valsboytoy


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Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline 		Mistress wants to have anchor points on different walls, suspending me in the middle of the room. i would like to know if this is possible.

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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/11/2008 7:31:47 PM   
MisPandora


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From: Philadelphia, PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Valsboytoy

Mistress wants to have anchor points on different walls, suspending me in the middle of the room. i would like to know if this is possible.


Neither of you are engineers or paid much attention in physics, huh?

I can't say that without the help of an adjunct, that putting anything in to a vert wall is going to get you off of the ground in the middle of the room.

Edit: UNLESS you have two foundation beams accessible and create some sort of zip line cable between the two.  I can't vouch for how safe that is on the house structurally.  I'm not sure that the hardware required for that is going to be very disguisable either.  Once it's installed, you'd have to have that cable up constantly.  There's no claiming that is for hanging plants....

< Message edited by MisPandora -- 5/11/2008 7:40:00 PM >

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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/11/2008 7:32:55 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Valsboytoy

Mistress wants to have anchor points on different walls, suspending me in the middle of the room. i would like to know if this is possible.



It is possible, but the force vectors envolved mean that the strain both on the connecting point in the walls and on your arm will be several times greater than with conventional overhead suspension.  The best I suspect that would be do-able would be a sharp V with the attachment points considerably over the highest point to which your arms would be raised.  In other words, not all that much different than suspension from two widely separated point on the ceiling

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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/11/2008 9:09:38 PM   
TheHungryTiger


Posts: 454
Joined: 3/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Valsboytoy

Mistress wants to have anchor points on different walls, suspending me in the middle of the room. i would like to know if this is possible.

No.

And no matter how many times you ask the question it will still be no. And if you rephrase the question to something like 'how can I change or adjust this so that it will be safe' the answer will still be no.

Just for refrence, Im going to copy the tabel out of the book I refrenced above. Your profile lists you at 170 pounds so I will base all calculation on that.

0 deg = 170 pounds
30 deg = 196 pounds
45 deg= 240 pounds
60 deg = 340 pounds
80 deg = 978 pounds
89 deg = 9,740 pounds
89.9 deg = 97,402 pounds

Now lets assume a best case setup of the 'sharp V' like mentioned above. Say the room has 10 foot high walls and is only 10 feet across. Also assume you are zero feet tall and are suspended in the exact center of the room zero 1 foot off the floor. Even this is an angel of nearly 30 degrees. A more reasonabal assumption of the walls being 8 feet and you suspending 5 feet off the ground makes the angel 60 degrees. The closer you get to 'clothesline' status of the rope comming right out perpundercular from the wall and going directly over to the other wall, the closer the angel gets to 90 (it will never exactly reach 90 because the weight will always cause the line to sag) and the closer the forces get to infinity.

Now add to the issue you kicking and squirming around and you become a dynamic lod instead of a simple static load. Then add in that knots in a rope cause it to loose a percentage of its strength. Then add in a minium 3X load ratio for safety.

No.

The letter N folowed by the letter O. No.

It aint going to happen dude. Forget it. No way it can be done and there is no way to twist or distort around the setup or use some kind of magic mumbo jumbo to change it all into somethign that will work. And I saw this knowing full well your going to come back with some question like what if you used 4 lines comming together in an X or what if you used anchor points on adjecent walls instead of going from one wall to the oposite wall. If you have already made up your mind that a 'clothesline' style hardpoint  is what your going to do, than nothing that anyone on an online forum tells you is going to change your mind.

Hardpoints have to be above where you are suspended. Not beside you.





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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/11/2008 9:17:59 PM   
Leatherist


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Status: offline 		In other words, mistress can get a frame, or forget about it.

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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/11/2008 9:21:26 PM   
TheHungryTiger


Posts: 454
Joined: 3/9/2004
Status: offline 		Ya know ..... on second thought heres what ya do.

Go get a gallon jug and fill it up with water. Then get a length of rope. Dosent have to be much. 2 or 3 feet is fine.

Run the line through the handel of the gallon jug. Hold each end in either hand with the middle of the rope at the handel. Now place your two hands close to each other and lift straight up. Feel the weight? Notice the tension you feel in each hand?

Ok, now bring your hands apart to about sholder width. The gallon jug will rise slightly. Feel the change in tension? Notice how there is more force you can feel in your hands?

Now bring your hands apart further. Try and ge them as far apart as you can. The gallon jug will rise even higher but it will be imposible to bring it all the way up. Feel the tension go up even more?

Now bring your hands back together. Feel the tension in yoru hands drop.

Do this and then you will know from your own direct experence why 'clothsline' style hardpoints wont work. It will no longer just be meaningless words on a computer screen from people you dont know.


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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/12/2008 12:09:44 AM   
SNoB


Posts: 145
Joined: 2/26/2008
Status: offline 		Either something in your rigging will break, anchors will tear out of the walls, or the walls will come down. 

I dont sugest trying to put in an overhead suspension poin in an apartment unless you have attic access.  A lag bolt into a rafter isnt enough to support a human.

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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/12/2008 11:11:11 AM   
FRSguy


Posts: 653
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		My sub only weighs in at about 110 so I do it.  I screw a large heavy hook into the ceiling and I havent had any problems... however I dont swing the weight either.  I hide it by using a gutted fire detector. I use a telescoping painters pole to string the first line. I just spackle over it when I leave. I havent had any of these pull out yet but I am extreamly carefull and set up for the fall so to speak.

You can also make a pyramid type wooden frame that screw together at the top kind of like what is used to remove engines from cars.


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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/12/2008 1:11:40 PM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

Suspending?  From a wall?



Well, actually, I have suspended my girlfriend once from a board of glory holes (uhm, they weren't in actual use by the way). It's not really traditional shibari, but it's sure possible. It wasn't in the middle of the room though...


< Message edited by Guilty1974 -- 5/12/2008 1:13:29 PM >

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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/12/2008 2:18:36 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FRSguy

My sub only weighs in at about 110 so I do it.  I screw a large heavy hook into the ceiling and I havent had any problems... however I dont swing the weight either.  I hide it by using a gutted fire detector. I use a telescoping painters pole to string the first line. I just spackle over it when I leave. I havent had any of these pull out yet but I am extreamly carefull and set up for the fall so to speak.

You can also make a pyramid type wooden frame that screw together at the top kind of like what is used to remove engines from cars.


I had to shudder a bit about a hook screwed vertically into the ceiling.

Maybe this will help people thinking about conventional suspension.  It's an edited section from The Loving Dominant

http://www.lovingdominant.org/suspend.html



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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/12/2008 2:55:10 PM   
FRSguy


Posts: 653
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks for the link.

It actually makes me shudder as well...LOL

Like I said its only 100-110#.  The beam does have to be exposed and I do pre-drill and no swinging... so you cant do some of the fancy stuff.... I also plan for the fall so to speak which is also limiting. I also dont go very high at all using this method.  It has to be very exact and checked before each use and replaced in a different location on ocasion.  My plans are to replace it by placing a metal bar between two beams with a welded hook then replace the missing sheet rock and use texture spray to hide the seems but I havent reached the three year mark on my rental yet. (at three years they are pretty much screwed on keeping the deposit in my area)   

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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/12/2008 11:30:12 PM   
pdxropedom


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Listen to TheHungryTiger - his numbers are right on. If you put anchors in the walls, it won't take much force in the middle of the room to bring the walls down.

Screw anchors in the ceiling aren't much better, but I know many people who do it (even though every screw anchor I've seen has a warning to the effect of "do not use for overhead lifting"). Getting such an anchor directly center in a 1.5" wide piece of wood (without being able to see the beam) is risky (you also don't know if you're going into a 2x4, a 2x6, etc).

A freestanding frame is the way to go if you're not absolutely certain about the construction of the building.

For a horizontal surface (such as a ceiling), you really need access to the other side. For a vertical surface (such as an exposed beam), there are inexpensive climbing anchors that you can get.

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RE: High Ceiling suspension? - 5/13/2008 3:13:07 AM   
TheHungryTiger


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quote:

Listen to TheHungryTiger - his numbers are right on.
Oh hush! You are going to ruin my reputation as a heretic if you keep talking like that.

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