Guilt

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Madame4a -> Guilt (5/7/2008 1:15:25 PM)
I did a search and found nothing came up in this forum on guilt -- so I'll try this here. I'm back. How do you help, if you can, someone get over the guilt they have for wanting to be tied up, be beat, be enslaved, and all those other lovely nasty things we like to do. The guilt over wanting to be used and abused -- the guilt over being the big strapping alpha savior knight, but really wanting to be at someone's feet? errr... my feet actually grin I've never felt this kind of thing, never had guilt over who I am... so while I'm working at understanding and I am being sympathetic, I don't know how to help. It might be that I can't help, but I thought I'd see if anyone here has experience with it. I have known at least two others, both heterosexual males, who have had this problem. I don't think they have gotten past it. Thoughts? and thanks...

RedMagic1 -> RE: Guilt (5/7/2008 1:29:55 PM)
As a lover/playpartner: Lots of positive reinforcement before, during and after sessioning. "You look so beautiful like that." "Thank you so much for pleasing me this way, it means a lot to me." "I am really touched you are willing to do this for me. It means a lot." As a Platonic friend: point out that submission has been part of the code of chivalry and manly-men-ism since the dawn of time. You slay the dragon and go through the horrible trials before you get the girl. You put your cape in the mud so she can walk more easily. Those who only say that men have been raping women for millions of years fail to recognize that men have also been DEFENDING WOMEN FROM rape for millions of years. Submitting to a woman ain't exactly a new thing, and nonwanker Doms do it all the time. It's called building a relationship in real life. My point: help him see that the criteria he is using to define what a "real man" is, are also criteria that clearly allow him to submit to, care for and serve a woman he likes/loves.

Shawn1066 -> RE: Guilt (5/7/2008 1:31:58 PM)
When I was younger, about 13 or so, I was guilty because based on everything I'd seen, read, or learned about in school... What I wanted from a relationship was wrong and innately sinful. Granted, in a much less sexual way, I'd wanted those same things from early childhood. The way my games of make-believe worked...the ways I played with other kids...with my action figures... I always desired a much different power dynamic. None of this was wrong to me until I learned that it was wrong. Needless to say, it took me until I was about 16-17 to unlearn it...and I didn't fully reconcile with it until I met my Owner at 20, in Oct of last year. It took a lot of introspection before hand for me to learn and accept that my desires weren't abnormal in any real sense of the world. They were abnormal if I let them control me, if I allowed myself to truly obsess about them. If I focused on them with a realistic mindset, then nothing was wrong at all. All of this was proven true eventually. For me, it was as simple and as difficult as making my peace with God and with myself. Because I have to live with both for a very long time. It took a lot of soul searching, to say the very least. If I didn't have support from friends when I needed it...I'd likely still be struggling. It's hard to go at anything alone. DV's Fox

abqowner -> RE: Guilt (5/7/2008 2:26:16 PM)
I've only ever had to deal with this once, but it had a profound impact on us both. This was quite a while ago, when I was pretty much a novice in the role of top. I was strongly attracted to my newest slave, so much so that I wanted him in spite of the guilt issues. It was a disaster for us both. I ended up trying to coddle him, trying to assure him that it was alright to want this - to be a young dashing executive by day and a submissive by night. In this instance I picked the wrong approach. What he needed, in retrospect, was my strength not my sympathy. My desire to make things better for him translated to weakness - someone too weak to truly own a slave. He reacted with contempt, and I lost him. Everyone's different, sure. But what I took from this experience was the notion that slaves need compassion through strength. From then on I've tried to give that, and I've been very happy with the results.

Pyrrsefanie -> RE: Guilt (5/7/2008 7:08:18 PM)
Getting over that guilt is a very personal issue, something that in my opinion cannot easily vaporize into nothingness with a caress or reassurance. Which is unfortunate. As a dominant I went through a period of thinking "what is wrong with me? Why can't I be normal?" I'm seconding what Fox is saying about needing to really look deep within oneself to combat those feelings. A submissive or dominant going though these feelings simply needs to accept themselves for who they are... I know, 'simply,' right? If you are in the position of watching a slave or submissive of yours struggle with those feelings, all you can do is be there for support. Don't try to intrude immediately. Make it clear that if they choose to come to you, you are there to be a pillar of support for them, but the ball is largely in their court.

ThundersCry -> RE: Guilt (5/7/2008 7:29:29 PM)
Back...then* I could not get over the guilt at times....it stuck to me like resin...at times I was covered in it...at times there was only a trace...but the stench was...there.* My problem was I was not able to communicate* it in a manner where I could be helped and at times I don`t think they gave a rats ass....tsk tsk.* Comfort.... became... the bottom of the shower afterwards... Some of those rooms I was willing to open the door a crack and let her see inside...sometimes I allowed her/them into the rooms and we talked...there were other times the doors opend if one was gentle and other doors could only be opened if the were smashed open violently...ahhh, seems theres always a price to pay to be...free. To give...RAW....to submit RAW...is FREEDOM! Thats when the demons run... Many will never experience...it. Screw guilt... Excellent topic... Thx...

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Guilt (5/8/2008 5:38:58 AM)
In the end, all we can do is be supportive. It's their row to hoe, so to speak. Releasing guilt usually comes along with self acceptance and integration of who they are into their lives. That's not something that's easily done for some people. So, offer support...be patient...but don't let them use their victimhood against you (such as in a manipulative manner). Master Fire

MsCfromMelbourne -> RE: Guilt (5/8/2008 6:44:00 AM)
Hmmm.....IME masochists, bondage bunnies and slaves experience guilty pleasure. Take away the guilt and shame and I think you take away most of the thrill of BDSM. Feelings of shame and guilt are the unavoidable by-product of knowing you are being very, very naughty. Which is exciting. Rebellious. Non-conformist. Do you really want BDSM to be a guilt-free, wholesome experience? Where's the delicious inner conflict?? And as a psychological sadist, where's the fun for me if I cannot make the sub feel genuine shame, humiliation and guilt??? Only those of us who are old and jaded no longer feel the thrill of guilt. Let newcomers enjoy their delicious guilt while it lasts, I say [:D]

MsCfromMelbourne -> RE: Guilt (5/8/2008 6:47:05 AM)
BTW, when the sub says afterwards that he feels guilty, say "of course you do. You have been a bad, bad boy. And thats what I love about you". Works for me.

Marysboi -> RE: Guilt (5/8/2008 7:59:44 AM)
Great input, I love Ms. C's above comment. ".when the sub says afterwards that he feels guilty, say "of course you do. You have been a bad, bad boy. And thats what I love about you". just seems so perfect..not avoiding or running from the question..but hitting it head on..Personally ..age for me has helped put many things in perspective. The older I get the less I care what others think..and who are these Others anyway..Respectfully..jim

MadameXTC -> RE: Guilt (5/8/2008 9:56:28 AM)
I think for those of us brough up in christian homes , we were taught so much was sinful we have a hard time getting over that. I think that theres always going to be a guilt hanging over some peoples heads. It is when that person understands that their feelings are what makes them who they are. Once the ones they love accept them for who they are taht we can overcome these barriers. I still have moments where I feel guilty, but I am happy and would not change who I am. I know that I am a good person and that my love for BDSM is what makes me unique. Positive reinforcement does help as does open communication. If a sub or slave feels the desire to tell the Dominant their deepest darkest secrets thats the first step to unloading the years of built up guilt. Trust and communication are the first step to revealing fear and guilt of doing something that has been taught is wrong. It is a slow process but it is possible to be overcome within time and with lots of patience.

AllforFun -> RE: Guilt (5/8/2008 3:17:52 PM)
Finally someone else who knows what this is like. I take it that it is your sub who feels guilty? I can relate to him. I know he feels guilty and why. I wrote a thread about this once before, something along the lines "the moon goddess and her alpha dog" or something like that. Anyway, here's my opinion (just my opinion, I dont want to be flamed by people for it.) It is sort of an unspoken expectation for big strapping guys to be the protectors etc. and this generates ALOT of pressure. Pressure from your own sex, pressure from the opposite sex, etc. Other guys will mock you and make comments like "pussy whipped". Damn right we are pussy whipped! Big time! and you know what? that means WOMEN WHIPPED! I get sick and tired of people equating male submissives with "weak" "gay" etc. (by the way if your sub is gay too, no offense :) ) . Back on subject..... Dont feel guilty.... if it feels right, screw it, go for it. Everyone else is, lol.

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