RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (Full Version)

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sweetavani -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/9/2008 12:30:21 PM)

for me there is no switch to flip...its is there always ingrained in my way of being....i can be slave to Master on the phone and order the dog to sit in the same breath....i can make things happen and still always remember my place...which is slave to Mater.....
no matter what its always there...a part of me...he comes first...but then i trust Master..i know that he would never let my dog suffer and always allow me time to "feed the cat, take the dog potty" etc...for as he is responsible for me he is responsible for those i am responsible for....(or at least responsible for the fact that they have needs i need to fulfill also).
as long as there is trust and communication there will be Master ...and i will be his.
 

pettingdragon,
i have to agree with you, what you say here resembles the relationship i have with my own Master.  You expressed it in a great way!!!!!
avani
MasterT's babygirl



adoracat -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/9/2008 1:11:00 PM)

this is kind of heartbreaking to me.

see....i ALWAYS knew i didnt come anywhere near first with wolf.  the kids were first, then work/school, his social life, his g/f if he had one (along with her family), then me somewhere in there.  his social life and g/f could be switched places.  now, did i came that far down the list because i am/was not important to him?  or because i let myself be that downsized?

i've always said i understood when he put me last, but i wish sometimes that i had pushed for my own place in things.  i didnt, so that lays the blame where it should, on both of us.  i know TheEngineer puts me up there in importance, and i LIKE that.  its taking a bit to get used to...but its nice, at the same time, to know i mean a lot to him, above his family.

definitely something to think about.

kitten



akisha -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/9/2008 1:35:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b



Can you manage to combine both elements of your lifestyle, or do you find you have to make compromises and sacrifices. Have you ever sacrificed something which was formerly important to you for a relationship and how was it? Do you need special allowances from a potential partner? What are they? If you are in a relationship what allowances or sacrifices were made, if any?

Please feel free to share your thoughts, experiences, advice, feelings, memories, and so on..


I just wanted to hit on the question I bolded and coloured

When I met my now ex husband, he knew what I was and what I was into. It wasn;t something I suprised him with after we were together for a long time. I was upfront about my needs and what drives me. We were together over 2 years before we got married. With in a couple months after the wedding, he demanded I stop all association with my bdsm orientated freinds, we would no longer play (i'm a maso to a point) etc etc.

So yes I sacraficed a large part of my identity and some freinds because I was married and I belived in sticking to my commitment. I was also pregnant so saying " F-you" and leaving wasn't something i viewed as a viable option at that time. I figured we'd work things out after a time. I figured wrong.

Some other things I've sacrificed to have the type of relationship i wanted and needed:

I didn't even consider dating anyone that was not already kinky. So i limited my possible partner pool I guess.

I refuse to play casually so that limited my play. I've gone months at a time with out playing because i refuse to just be a peice of meat to beat.

I have a small daughter so people were not invited to my house until i knew them very well.

I always put the needs and welfare of lilbit before my own needs or itches lol so again i missed going to lots of functions because i didn't have some one to care for the kidlet.

I'm lucky, being submissive does not affect my job at all. The men I work with know that I am the boss of my department and that is the way it is. Those that know that I am submissive find it amusing that I'm very take charge and totally in control then when we're out and I'm with Sir per base personality is the same but i defer to my partner, and I'm nto the same hard ass I am at the office *S*

I can honestly admit tho that I have never had a burning need to do charity work or do a job where I care for people. I do, do some charity work but more geared towards office work or computer type stuff. 

quote:


I'm talking about being part of a situation which you cannot control


Doesn't this pretty much cover all employment other then self employment?? lol  IT also covers many situations where having kids is involved. [:D]




DavidsGem -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/9/2008 2:13:32 PM)

Brightest Blessings SmilingJaguar,
 
 One is gone, (20) two are on their way (18) and the last little bird is (16). We have been together for 9 years so we did have formative years while in the relationship, and it was still the same way. When I was raising my children before Man, they knew they were important, they knew they could count on me for support, love, lectures and all the things they needed....however they have also  always known that I do not live for them.
 
 Do babies need you 24/7 365 yes but relationships should not stop or be put on the back burner just because a little bird needs something, many couples forget that they are in a relationship with another adult when baby makes three ( or 4,5,6 etc.).
 
 
I understand that I do not hold the popular opinion of society however it is mine and I am quite fond of it[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m22.gif[/image] .
 
Blessed Be
Gem
 



incantatrice -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/9/2008 2:41:15 PM)

I found this thread really interesting as I have tried both ways of living..

When my son was born his father and I openly told each other that our son now came first and our relationship second; and true to our word that was exactly how we operated.

Even when he began to make me so unhappy I would cry every day I stayed for my son, so he could have a 'good' upbringing. However five years later the day came where I had to leave, for many reasons which can all be equated with one simple fact, in putting each other second our relationship had totally fallen apart.

When I met my Master he taught me many many life lessons, but arguably the most important is that in putting my son first, despite myself, I am not helping him at all, I just end up making myself so unhappy it becomes impossible to be a good parent.

I suffered a lot of guilt over leaving my ex, I was so worried at the effect it would have on my little boy, yet some time after I met Master Gio my precious 6 year old turned to me and asked ''Mummy why do you smile so much?'' I asked him what he meant and he replied ''you smile all the time now, and you never cry any more, I like it when you smile you look so beautiful'' ..for the first time some of my guilt melted away. Some months later at his parents evening, the teacher told me how much he had grown up and how good his behaviour and concentration had become compared to when I was ''putting him first'' and with that more guilt melted away. As I have continued to see the detrimental effects of ''putting him first'' wearing away, so has the rest of my guilt.

The truth is we can't make our kids number 1 if we are making our selves number 2, you only need to examine how a child learns anything to see this is true. How do they learn to talk? through watching, listening and copying us!  ..to walk? ..to smile? They need us to teach them how to live full and happy lives by demonstrating it, you can’t talk to a child in Chinese and expect them to grow up speaking English! They need to learn how to be happy people by seeing what happiness is, they will learn how to love and respect by witnessing our love and respect. If we cannot lead by example how can we expect them to learn?

So I also agree with Mercnbeth that ''Any partner is fitted around" is very sad,  love isn't a share scheme ..kids 60% ..Master 30% ..cat 10% there are no first and second places in true love. I am deeply in love with Master Gio and am with my son, I have also fallen madly in love with Gio’s son. I do not have a set quantity of love, loving Gio and his son has not made me love my son any less. It has given me the ability to finally be the parent I have always wanted to be, to both the children I love so much.

I loved Rocks and Sand by Stephen R. Covey posted by eyesopened, I always love a good analogy and this one is perfect for how to fit everything in to a busy life. Master decides on the rocks and all four of us ad the small rocks, sand and water. We are a team with a leader, and as all good leaders ours listens to his team before making the decisions that affect us all. I don't see D/s as a separate thing to my life, or as something I must sacrifice in order to get things done, it is a lifestyle, the kink and sex is only one very small part of what is essentially about love, respect and trust.

I thought pettingdragons summed it up perfectly when she said ..

quote:

ORIGINAL: pettingdragons

 for me there is no switch to flip...its is there always ingrained in my way of being....i can be slave to Master on the phone and order the dog to sit in the same breath....i can make things happen and still always remember my place...which is slave to Mater.....no matter what its always there...a part of me...he comes first...but then i trust Master..i know that he would never let my dog suffer and always allow me time to "feed the cat, take the dog potty" etc...for as he is responsible for me he is responsible for those i am responsible for....(or at least responsible for the fact that they have needs i need to fulfill also).as long as there is trust and communication there will be Master ...and i will be his. my 2 centspettingdragons

Beautifully put and this is exactly how it is for me too.
His incantatrice



stella41b -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/9/2008 3:02:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: frazzle121

Life comes first. Kids, job/education. Any partner, bdsm or nilla, is fitted around.


Rocks and Sand
by Stephen R. Covey
Here are some good words to remember and live by.
A high school science teacher wanted to demonstrate a concept to his students.

He takes a large-mouth jar and places several large rocks in it.

He then asks the class, "Is it full?"

Unanimously, the class reply, "Yes!"
The teacher then takes a bucket of gravel and pours it into the jar.

The small rocks settle into the spaces between the big rocks.

He then asks the class, "Is it full?"

This time there are some students holding back, but most reply, "Yes!"

The teacher then produces a large can of sand and proceeds to pour it into the jar.

The sand fills up the spaces between the gravel.

For the third time, the teacher asks, "Is it full?"

Now most of the students are wary of answering, but again, many reply, "Yes!"

Then the teacher brings out a pitcher of water and pours it into the jar.

The water saturates the sand.

At this point the teacher asks the class, "What is the point of this demonstration?"

One bright young student raises his hand and then responds, "No matter how full one's schedule is in life, he can always squeeze in more things!"

"No," replies the teacher, "The point is that unless you first place the big rocks into the jar, you are never going to get them in. The big rocks are the important things in your life -- your family, your friends, your personal growth. If you fill your life with small things -- as demonstrated by the gravel, the sand, and the water -- you will never have the time for the important things."
You can try this experiment by pouring in the water first, or the sand or the gravel and in each case the rocks will not fit into the jar. When the jar represents the relationship, nothing is fitted around, everything is fitted within and there's a whole lot more room than one would expect.



Thank you for sharing this. So very true.



lronitulstahp -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/9/2008 3:40:00 PM)

sooo many good and interesting points here...whew!
    Mercnbeth...i agree that a partner should be first, or at the very least as important to me as my little ones, but in a different way. When one is at the point of total commitment, (ie, your wedding...smile) but i have seen the dangers involved with putting a partner one doesn't wholly know before one's own offspring first hand, as a child.  And imo, THAT is a no-no.  i know you were speaking of a deep emotional and spiritual bond...but for some in frenzy, or just insane...2 emails, 4 IM's and a scene a equals a deep emotional spiritual bond.[8|] 
  As far as work...what i do is important to me, but it is't more important to me than the relationship i plan on sharing with a partner. 
  On the other hand, i wouldn't be with anyone who wasn't able to fully grasp the idea that small UM's in particular, will sometimes be in need of my attention and focus.  That doesn't lesson my submission, but it is part of my responsiblity as a parent.  My sort of Dom/Masterful type would be One that enables me to be a better person overall( sort of like what domah said).  i had a Masterful type once tell me, " If it weren't for your kids, I'd totally break you, but they need you"  Right or wrong, He considered them...i come with extras, and wouldn't have it any other way.
  It's funny, but if asked to choose work over our children, noone would say..."my children need to realize my work is my priority."  How quickly some utter that concerning relationships... somebody said,
“The person who really wants to do something finds a way; the other person finds an excuse"



stella41b -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/9/2008 3:40:20 PM)

I thnak everyone so far for contributing and for enriching this thread each in their own individual way. The general consensus appears to be that people come first, and among those people it's the children who matter most. But this I feel is human, it lies within us, and comes through in a great many number of ways. Then we have our jobs, our employment, our businesses, our occupations, which was one of the motivating reasons why I started this thread.

As some of you know I'm connected with theatre, I run a small theatre here in London, and am directing a play which involves characters interested in BDSM. I cannot define my work in directing into any one of the commonly associated roles found in BDSM, for in fact I am all three, dominant, switch, and submissive. I am dominant through the fact that I am the authority, I take the responsibility for the production, I am the one who leads, inspires, encourages the cast, I make the decisions, suggest changes, develop the strategy, but then I am also submissive. I am submissive in that when I hand over a role to an actor I trust him to develop that role, however which way he wants, I hand over control of the production to my actors, they are the ones who make the performance possible..I can influence, mentor, guide, but they are the ones who make the decisions. Ultimately I hand over control because on the opening night it is them who go out on stage, not me. Therefore it can also be said that I switch.

So therefore what I would want to ask is does your submission in BDSM transfer over into your life, or vice versa? And what about the times when you have to switch and take control? Does this somehow create a conflict within you, and how do you cope with it if it does? If you identify as a Dominant in BDSM but are required in life to submit, does it also create a conflict?

Do you ever find yourself applying knowledge or experience gained from BDSM in other aspects of your life, or vice versa? How? Has there been a situation or an experience where a transfer of knowledge or your own experience proved to be advantageous or beneficial? Or has it ever worked against you?



exploreme760 -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/9/2008 4:13:40 PM)

i had one thought, having tried life on both sides of this discussion.
When you are in an airliner, and the flight attendant is demonstating the oxygen mask, who do they tell you to put the mask on first if you are traveling with a child?
The child or yourself?

If you give everything to the child, like the oxygen mask, who will care for you when you have nothing else to give, when there is no more air to breathe?



wantstotrust -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/9/2008 5:39:01 PM)

incantatrice said it best...you are the best teacher when you are living by example for your children.

Living a fulfilling life for yourself will teach them to life their own fulfilling life.

Bending your life around them will only set them up for disappointment...the world will not bend to them.



DesFIP -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/9/2008 6:08:50 PM)

We are both devoted to our children. We agreed that they come first. He's been amazingly good with my daughter and I've bonded with his son. We don't fit each other into the spare moments, we fit the spare moments into our combined life. We do errands together. I'm home sick today and he went into the auto parts store alone at which point the guys there asked him if he had chained me up. They never see us not together. Neither do the waitresses at the diner. If I wasn't sick as a dog, I'd be with him now driving up to retrieve his son from college.



kiwisub12 -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/9/2008 6:20:53 PM)

When i was younger, i was married, and produced 2 kids. I put those kids first and lost sight of the fact that the parents of said children were a relationship before they came along. I neglected my husband and our marriage, and the predictable happened. It wasn't onesided, but i accept my responsibility for my part.
it wasn't until i was divorced and wanting more than work, coming home and tending house and kids, that i realised that i had made a couple of brats. They didn't want me to be unavailable to them - they wanted me home, even if they weren't.

I did no favours to them by putting them first - infact, i turned them into entitled beasts that didn't see me as a person, but a caretaker.
In hindsight, i would have put them second often enough that i could have nurtured my husbands and my relationship more. It probably wouldn't have prevented the divorce, but it would have shown the brats that they weren't the center of the universe.

There needs to be a happy medium to all things. Parenting is important, but so is nurturing adult relationships, work relationships, ...  and ourselves. I think as women particularly, we neglect ourselves something terrible - and teach our children a really bad lesson in doing so.



smilingjaguar -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/9/2008 6:32:31 PM)

I think perhaps the problem with people who see issues with ums' needs coming first are playing a version of the zero sum game that SimplyMichael posted on the general board.  If the um gets some attention, the master must lose attention.  Paying more attention to one thing does not mean the other is ignored to the point of catastrophic failure.  My Sir and I have been together so long that I don't think outside of "us".  We're pretty much a unit these days.  Our first priority is our children to the point that when stress got to be so much on him that he was being cruel to the ums I left...not only because what he was doing was wrong but the way we operate our relationship that was the correct thing to do.  When he realized this, we very quickly ended up back together because the adjustment in his attitude was instantaneous.

Life is a balancing act whether we like it or not.  Shared priorities and communication ("hey babe, I think maybe you're a little too involved with the ums and I'm feeling left out") are skills that are needed for any relationship.  I'll be honest; if a man can't understand that changing a poo diaper comes before getting him a beer, he's not worth my time.

I realize that the relationship and dynamic between Sir and I is a bit unusual; he's an offshore oil production operator which mean's he's gone 14 days and home 14 days.  If there's anyone who knows how to juggle changing priorities in the moment, it's us quite frankly.  We accept life and the limitations/obstructions that take us away from each other in stride with the relationship, not as some external force that's coming to destroy us.  We're brutally honest and brutal about prioritizing our ums and our relationship above anything else while trying to work around a schedule neither one of us can change.  We're more fulfilled in our relationship because of the place we put the ums' needs.  We both grew up in families where we had to fend for ourselves and often there was little to no attention.  We're extremely happy to provide a loving attentive atmosphere for our ums...



smilingjaguar -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/9/2008 6:42:51 PM)

I have to say that I'm surprised to hear that so many believe putting an um's needs first results in a brat or makes them believe the world bends to them.  My ums would be surprised to hear that, lol.  I don't think any of us who prioritize our children mean that we spoil the rotten or submit to them; it means that their needs are fulfilled and us as a team fulfilling those needs fills an important need in our relationship.  We feel we have a responsibility to be loving, nurturing parents to our ums.  At this point in our relationship, each other's presence is a given and we work things out. 

I like what DesFIP said...Sir and I often spend time together running errands and doing things around the house that need doing.  It may not be whips and chains and our primary focus is not each but our relationship is nourished all the same.  Raising ums can nourish in that way, too, if both partners are secure in their relationship enough to let it happen.



smilingjaguar -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/9/2008 7:53:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b
So therefore what I would want to ask is does your submission in BDSM transfer over into your life, or vice versa? And what about the times when you have to switch and take control? Does this somehow create a conflict within you, and how do you cope with it if it does? If you identify as a Dominant in BDSM but are required in life to submit, does it also create a conflict?


My submission is only for and to Sir.  The rest of the world can take a long walk off of a very short pier.  In fact, Sir's family who have no idea of the BDSM aspect of our relationship, is quite convinced that I am fully in control of the relationship and he's a whipped puppy.  If only they knew the truth...

I don't consider being a take-charge person outside of my relationship with Sir to be switching.  There is no BDSM dynamic involved; therefore there can be no conflict within myself. 



newflowers -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/9/2008 9:29:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

So therefore what I would want to ask is does your submission in BDSM transfer over into your life, or vice versa? And what about the times when you have to switch and take control? Does this somehow create a conflict within you, and how do you cope with it if it does? If you identify as a Dominant in BDSM but are required in life to submit, does it also create a conflict?

Do you ever find yourself applying knowledge or experience gained from BDSM in other aspects of your life, or vice versa? How? Has there been a situation or an experience where a transfer of knowledge or your own experience proved to be advantageous or beneficial? Or has it ever worked against you?


I have not encountered an instance in which my submission or my submissive nature conflicts with my work or the general fulfilling of my responsibilities. One of the things my partner particularly enjoys is that to others I do not seem submissive at all and at work and other places am the person in charge directing what many others are doing without a problem. To him I submit; to others it is not a question of submission; if I were to do such a thing, I would not be able to do my job or fulfill my responsibilities.



pettingdragons -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/10/2008 6:33:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetavani
pettingdragon,
i have to agree with you, what you say here resembles the relationship i have with my own Master.  You expressed it in a great way!!!!!
avani
MasterT's babygirl


thank you MasterT's babygirl- [sm=oddballs.gif]
each relationship is different...everyones dynamic is different...but for me as a slave...Mater is first..if i am watching my niece and nephew, ...work...play...being here on the computer chatting on CM,  He helps me through my day and sees me through the light and dark of life..**ok a bit mushy here but the point is clear**[sm=duck.gif]

pettingdragons
**Master Dragons considered slave**



lizcgirl -> RE: When submission goes beyond BDSM (5/10/2008 8:04:25 AM)

I have two small children, ages 7 and 3. I've been a single mom since my oldest was a year and a half old and I am very used to them coming first and doing it on my own. I think my conflict comes into play when Daddy tries to help me by taking control of the situation. If He's here and my son steps out of line, He at first would ask my permission to step in and deal with it. Now He just does it naturally. I want the help, I want Him to be the head of the house so to speak, but after so long of doing it on my own, I still struggle occassionally with letting go of that control and trusting another's judgement when it comes to my children. He knows it's no disrespect to Him when I hesitate, but rather my devotion to my children. Since I handed Him all that I am, including giving Him a father position in my childrens' lives (their father is MIA 99% of the time), He sees it as a good thing to an extent because He knows I care for what's His very fiercely and He respects that.

That being said, there are always a few things I keep in mind when it comes to my children. They will grow up, they will go on and make their own lives and marry and have families of their own. I almost married the wrong man simply 'for the sake of my children'. I stopped and pictured my life in a year and I could see myself throwing my energy and focus into my kids and being content with that being all I had to bring me joy. But then I tried to picture myself when they would be teenagers and too 'cool' or too busy to hang with mom and it made me sad because what would I do with myself then? And what about when they were grown and moved out? I would be stuck in a loveless marriage with a person I couldn't stand and no kids around to distract me. What lesson would I teach my children by living a life like that? My kids see me happy, and they're happy. They see me submit to my Daddy and they follow His directions. They see us joking around, and they tackle Him trying to get Him to wrestle. They learn so much by example that I want them to see all the good a healthy, happy relationship can bring so that they will never consider settling for second best when they are grown. I put my Daddy and my children as my first priority in my life, I don't seperate the two because we are a family, even if unconventional, and as a family, we all hold the same level of importance.



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