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Respect - 1/15/2004 5:47:04 AM   
Wolfspet


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/11/2004
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OK, in another board I belong to the subject of being a "slave" but not a "submissive" came up.

I have a few questions regarding that and those who feel that because one is a slave to another that they are automatically a submissive to others, and should automatically "respect" other Dominants. I am not a submissive person. I do submit to one man who has drawn that part of me out.

In other words, I submit to a man. (not trying to be gender biased) Not to a orientation.

In another forum, it was mentioned that I was a dishonor to my Master because I vehemently disagreed with a posting by a dominant. I have a temper, and I showed it.

My feeling is that I am Wolf's, no-one elses. I have no responsibility to blindly treat someone with respect because they are a Dom, or call themselves Sir, Master, Lord, whatever. If someone acts like a mindless twit with there head up their posterior, I will tell them that.

There have been one or two occasions that Wolf has curbed that part of my nature, but it is not often. He feels that I am a reasonably good judge of character, and if I feel that strongly against someone, mores the pity to them.

This frequently annoys me that just because I am a sub to one, all Dominants feel the can use diminutives with me, or speak condensending.

Opinions anyone?
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RE: Respect - 1/15/2004 6:22:40 AM   
ShadowHwk


Posts: 158
Joined: 1/5/2004
From: New York
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Oh I am sure you will get some responses.

Here is my .02 on this issue, which comes up from time to time.

Respect is earned. Period. It does not belong to someone by divine right.

Declaring yourself to be dominant does not make it so - look at the number of wannabes out there. Those who cant control themselves let alone anyone else, yet CLAIM to be dominant - do they deserve more respect than anyone else? Not in my book.

My opinion? If someone, by their actions, their behavior, earns your respect then show it. Otherwise they get the same level of respect that I would grant any other human being - nothing more, nothing less.

ShadowHwk

P.S. SherriA: Thanks for correcting my errant grammer.

< Message edited by ShadowHwk -- 1/15/2004 7:35:37 PM >

(in reply to Wolfspet)
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RE: Respect - 1/15/2004 7:44:29 AM   
MistressSinful


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Joined: 1/1/2004
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respectfully......before honor, respect, and honesty comes an
initial trait that's even more important; integrity. In our e-
world, integrity is taken very lightly, as we all know very well,
but it is the first impression one acquires of us and is a very
lasting one at that.

Many of you folks have chosen to present yourselves via typed words
that portray who you'd like to be for the sake of either attention,
chatting, or hormone delivery. Or in the case of many in this
group, a blank profile, as you are reluctant to admit being what
you'd like to be, which is fine. Whether domme/dom or sub, divulgence
can be quite difficult as we all have lives to protect. But who are
we protecting ourselves from?
In most cases, it is others who have no integrity. The fear of our
identity being exposed can be very real; especially for subs. How
much intestinal fortitude they have to overcome such exposure varies
amongst them. But the real issue is portraying ourselves for what we
really are.
Doormats leave no potential for training, accomplishments, and the
sweet taste of victory. If gold was $500 per ounce, and every
panfull resulted in a few hundred grams of gold, wouldn't we all be
panning for gold in the middle of nowhere? When I pan for gold, I
am not a real miner. I have my recreational fantasy of getting that
once-in-a-lifetime humongous nugget, which will probably never
happen. I also don't write off my gold panning expenses from my
dominance or submissiveness? The once-in-a-lifetime fantasy of a
night of D & s? Or are you just describing yourself as a domme or
sub for the sake of personal relief? On the other hand, are you
accurately portraying yourself as one who is looking for a
permanent, loving D/s relationship?

Few dommes/doms understand their role
in a D/s relationship. Is the description full of integrity?
There is no wishy-washyness about who and what I am stating I am. But
then, it doesn't attract too many phony wannabe subs/slaves.
Integrity saved me a lot of time and headaches.

So, when considering many of the important traits like,honor,respect andhonesty,remember to preface them with integrity.
You'll sleep better at night.In Love and Light Mistress K
]

(in reply to ShadowHwk)
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RE: Respect - 1/15/2004 8:38:37 AM   
Wolfspet


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/11/2004
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Mistress Sinful,
I do understand what you are saying.

Personally, the first things in my profile are that I am owned. By this I mean that Wolf possess me in a manner that encompassed my body & mind.

I choose to present myself as a woman who has 15+ years in this lifestyle as a sub/slave to a man who has taken me places that I would have never ventured to go. I present myself as a intelligent woman who has managed to correlate the more genteel side of my nature with the more agressive, leaving my vunerable side open in all ways to this one man I spend my life with, and my aggressive side at his disposal.

We have managed to blend our cultural beliefs with our personal desires and with our desire to have a family & life in the world around us.

I try to be open & friendly for the most part, and I will help anyone if I can, advise if asked.

But I will not tolerate anyone who feels that because they identify as a Dominant, they are somehow a superior being to me. I am equal in my relationship, just imbalanced in the power of the relationship.

Example, just last evening, I got a message on this site from a Dom who simply asked if I chat on yahoo. I replied that friendly chat is fine, but I am a owned woman. His reply was

"Well then, be a good girl & IM me at XXXXXXX."

granted tis a small example, but it is symptomatic of a larger prevelance in the life.

(in reply to MistressSinful)
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RE: Respect - 1/15/2004 11:17:12 AM   
MistressSinful


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I am equal in my relationship, just imbalanced in the power of the relationship. A wonderful way to phrase it Wolfspet. Mistress K

(in reply to Wolfspet)
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RE: Respect - 1/15/2004 12:10:15 PM   
EStrict


Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
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I know exactly what you are talking about Pet. If you read my profile on the site, you will see it says almost the same thing. I have run into many problems on boards because of my views. They are considered poor for a slave. One of my biggest conflicts is that I am slave to my Master, but I am not submissive in any manner to women. I do not deny that a woman can be a Mistress, but to me, I am any woman's equal. For that reason, I always use the woman's name, instead of her title.

One of the things that bother me, is when there is a conflict people write to me off lists saying things like *stick to your guns*, but say nothing when I am ripped apart on the board for *daring* to use someones first name. But it doesn't bother me enough to change what I say, as I always give EVERYONE at least as much respect as they give me.

Sandy

(in reply to Wolfspet)
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RE: Respect - 1/15/2004 5:21:02 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Great topic. It's something I've seen often, too. I have been known to tell people that "There is no need to tell someone you are not a doormat. Just because someone assumes or believes that because you identify as a submissive you must treat all dominants this way or that way does not mean you have to acquiesce to their assumption - nor to clarify that you don't have to. Leave them to their assumptions, it quite possibly might be what keeps them warm at night." If you are attacked, however, it is appropriate to state your position if you so choose.

For me (that's ALWAYS the disclaimer, eh?) I tend to see "novice" or "onliner ONLY" in those that make those sorts of assumptions. I realize that it's my own prejudice and I'm OK with that.

Also for me is an aversion to the notion that submissives are "less than" or "less powerful" or "beneath" or "below" or any other derogatory or diminutive position. I am sado-masochistic. I love giving AND receiving pain. I am also a rather dominant personality and, while I have truly tried to be submissive for a short time - it's just not in my make up. I simply could not give my power to someone else. How could I not revere someone who can give to me something I could not possibly give another? I find it humbling, to say the least. The fortitude required to submit is an incredible strength and one that deserves respect. Please know that I differentiate between submitting and bottoming.

Conversely, titles and such are honorifics. Honorifics are GIVEN. When an honorific is demanded it stops being an honor and becomes just another name. Those that require these things from people they do not even know have, in my experience, miles to go before they sleep (or before they will have the capacity to experience the glory of the dance at levels that transcend simple endorphin games).

If your dominant expects you to treat other dominants in a certain way, then that is the nature of your commitment to your dominant and your relationship with your dominant. Anyone not in your dynamic presumes much if they presume to dictate another's behavior; and quite probably would be BEST served by a therapist.

< Message edited by MizSuz -- 1/15/2004 5:23:26 PM >

(in reply to Wolfspet)
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RE: Respect - 1/16/2004 8:27:13 AM   
trnmastr


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Until someone commits to someone else they are just people, period. They arent sub or Dom they are just people.
Sure each will that they are either but that doesnt mean anything when just talking to each other. Online or otherwise.
Now if you are directed by your Dom to act a specific way then yes you have too. But when everyone is free and unattached then they are just people.

William

(in reply to Wolfspet)
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RE: Respect - 1/21/2004 8:44:36 PM   
lepidus


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Joined: 1/14/2004
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On another level it is disrepectful to everyone to act like whatever you want is Ok simply because you want it. All society has rules of behavior. Why should that not extend to the world of D/S.
Shouldn't all dominants make sure of their ground before engaging in boorish behavior? My slave belongs to me. Who she submits to is my decision. Abusing my slave without my permission is disrespectful to me, my slave, and even to our friends.. I wouldn't think of using someone else's property without their consent and I expect the same consideration.
My slave trusts me and I intend to keep it that way. She need to know I cherish her devotion to me.

(in reply to trnmastr)
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RE: Respect - 1/22/2004 4:34:29 AM   
soulcatcher


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Joined: 1/16/2004
Status: offline
Interesting discussion. I enjoyed. Here's two cents.

Communication is a funny thing. For certain, its clear that in any aspect of life, we should validate our concerns. In this case, respect or integrity...may mean one thing to us...and another to our "counterpart".

Too, remember many cultures only recognize "respect" after it been earned. So between integrity, honor, trust.....etc...respect may be the last to show. Certainly the clarification of important criteria would or should be addressed early on.

I am just out of a year long relationship with a wonderful lady...as interesting as it was...I simply could not establish the level of respect I expected. Close...but obviously there were issues and in the end, I realized she needed and wanted punishment for her brat behavior. Her way of expressing what she couldn't portray in words.

So...integrity steps in..and I ended the relationship. She clearly needed to deal with issues that I realized were serious,...she's in counseling now..for better or worse, I feel she'll benefit...D/sub relationship at this time in her life would have only pleasantly candy coated issues. Or...by the same token, it could have been a disaster.

As a Dom,....we have many responsibilities. At times clearly we are caretakers...thanks for you time.

(in reply to lepidus)
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RE: Respect - 1/22/2004 7:02:38 PM   
KnightWolf


Posts: 2
Joined: 1/17/2004
Status: offline
i totally agree with lepidus, personally i get pretty pissed off when another dom tries to pm or otherwise go behind my back to contact my sub, it is totally disrespectfull and when my sub tells me about it i make sure to have a "talk" with the person when ever i see them. what ever happend to the unwrittin rule of asking for permission to pm someone?

(in reply to soulcatcher)
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RE: Respect - 1/22/2004 8:37:10 PM   
DocHolliday


Posts: 25
Joined: 1/10/2004
Status: offline
Hi Wolfspet!
In My opinion, respect is earned, not demanded. I would never ask My submissive to run around a play party addressing ever Dom/me as "Sir" or "Ma'am". On the same token, I do not expect a submissive I do not know addressing Me as such Sir, god forbid one call Me "Master". Laugh, but it is has happened.
A girl's submission and her respect has to be earned over time...Here's a good example I like to use:
I would like a brand new Harley Davidson V-rod. I feel like I deserve one because I am a very avid and loyal fan of H~D. But if I call up the local Harley shop and "demand" they surrender a new motorcycle to Me merely by virtue that I feel I deserve one, they will most likely tell Me to go fuck Myself, and rightly so.
Thats just My opinion...I could be wrong

(in reply to Wolfspet)
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RE: Respect - 1/22/2004 9:18:47 PM   
lilmsdangerous


Posts: 1
Joined: 1/21/2004
Status: offline
i agree wolfs pet
my pet peeve is you go into chat and some are very rude
because one has a title Dom/Master does not mean i have to do anything
i give respect and curtousy, however i dont like a Dom coming onto me insisting i give my name after being in the same chat room with him 10 min
i dont like it just because someone carries a title, they think it gives them permission to be rude
my profile says im not looking for sex.... what part of that didnt they understand? it also states im taken...
i had a run in with a very rude wanna be dom today.... im just venting

(in reply to DocHolliday)
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RE: Respect - 1/23/2004 7:36:04 AM   
Wolfspet


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/11/2004
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I am a bit confused by your response.

Are you saying that I am disrespectful because I refuse to kowtow to anyone but my Master?

**sighs**
This is a main reason why Wolf and I do not belong to any local scene. I refuse to use third person when referring to myself, and I will address everyone by their name. I am not "a" submissive. I am a woman who submits to a man, not a orientation.

(in reply to lepidus)
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RE: Respect - 1/23/2004 7:52:40 AM   
litaTshai


Posts: 31
Joined: 1/19/2004
Status: offline
font="Arial"]girl offers greetings,

this one is an OLD slave. she has been reading this thread with interest.

to her, what a lot of this boils down to is simple, old-fashioned good manners.

like when she was a child, everyone was addressed as Mr. Mrs., Miss, Sir or Ma'am. Even some married couples addressed each other as Mr and Mrs. Jones or whatever.

folks didn't jsut drop in on other folks unannounced. They checked first to see if it was convenient. and some folks had certain days, morning or afternoon, designated as "at home" times, when visitors could and would be received with pleasure and treated as welcome guests, and need not fear they might be interrupting anything the host wished or needed to be doing.

you did not interrupt or butt your way into convesations either, but waited politely until the speakers were finished, and politely inquired if you might interject a thought on the topic.

people were courteous to each other, opened doors, offered to carry packages or run errands for each other. if you were going somewhere on an errand you inquired of family, friends and neighbors if they would like to share transportation, or if you could pick up something for them while you were out.

you didn't park vehicles where they would block driveways or lanes or streets, or even the view of others backing out of oncoming traffic where they might get hit because they couldn't see.

the same respect for all was shown whether it was the wino passed out in the gutter, or the Mayor's wife. (can you tell one grew up in the south?)

so this one sees it not as a matter of "respect", necessarily, but just good manners to inquire if one may speak privately in a chat room with another. or address all capped names as Sir or Ma'am (this one, being a Gorean slave, is required to address Them as Master or Mistress, but the same theory applies.)

and no, she does not think it good manners for those with capped names to expect every submissive or slave to be totally submissive to Them, anymore than They would expect a neighbor's dog or child to respond to Their every command annd/or whim.

one knows many hear will laugh and think it ludicrous to suggest tht old fashioned manners be practiced in this day and age, and in "alternate lifestyles". However, the practice of these good manners when they were practiced jsut made daily life and interac tions, social and business, a lot smoother and simpler.

there is a minimum level of respect we owe each other as human beings, after all. else we'd all kill each other on sight.

just the random meandering thoughts of an old lady, and a slave at that. carrying only such value as the reader chooses to give them....or not.

one wishes All here well, enough, and great joy.

respectfully submitted,

lita {Tshai}

(in reply to lilmsdangerous)
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RE: Respect - 1/23/2004 10:41:29 AM   
trnmastr


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quote:

one knows many hear will laugh and think it ludicrous to suggest tht old fashioned manners be practiced in this day and age, and in "alternate lifestyles".


Laugh? No way, that is exactly what is needed and the only thing that needs to be followed when talking or meeting someone.

William

(in reply to litaTshai)
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RE: Respect - 1/23/2004 5:12:55 PM   
lepidus


Posts: 5
Joined: 1/14/2004
Status: offline
Wolfspet,
It is now me who is confused. I thought my response was in support of your position. However you and your Master play is your business and it is up to anyone who desires your acquaintance to find out just what your particular take on D/s is. My comments were only in the context of how I and my slave prefer to play. My main point was that all should offer the basic considerations to those they care to strike up a relationship with.

(in reply to Wolfspet)
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RE: Respect - 1/24/2004 6:57:21 AM   
Wolfspet


Posts: 143
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline
My apologies, I think I was having one of those mornings...

(in reply to lepidus)
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RE: Respect - 2/12/2004 6:30:22 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Wolfspet
I agree that your choice to suplicate to one man makes you neither a submissive and most definatly NOT a slave. In MY world only slaves speak in third person as they are the ones with in MY Lifestyle whom give up TOTALLY their being and self and body and life to become a * Possession.
You stated your stance Your self quite plainly and what I read in MY LIFESTYLES terms is two vanillas whom choose to Top and bottom when They so choose for Their Own enjoyment and this is TOTALLY o.k. BUT when you try to take the position that you fit into one of the associations of either submissive or slave and speak as such this is where the lines for those of US whom have been taught Proticals in your world get fuzzy AND this is where there should be NO FUZZ. These are the problems that have popped up in the past 10 years or so since the invention of ONLINE. The roles, rules,regulations and proticals have always been in place befor this time and it is only the bleeding over of those in the Vanilla life whom have a kink they choose to experiament here on line and then bring it into their Homes and real life starts to make the definitions get smokie and when one calls Them Self a name NOT earned. You say that you serve a Master Wolfspet and yet also state that the both of You do not frequent Munchies or BDSM Social Groups because you both refuse to conform to whats set in the Lifestyle which is fine but do not be offended when you are told that you are NOT of the lifestyle when the positions that you proclaim to sit in have not been earned. A Man whom calls Him self Master with out having any formal training is only a TOP with a Dominant complex and the same can be said for a bottom whom has not had any formal training but professes to be a slave. ~giggles~ just MY OPINION.
P.S. your a very cute pet in mind and matter even if I disagree with you and Yours and Wolf should be proud.....* wink ~Ill give you both another 10 years to see the light~

(in reply to Wolfspet)
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RE: Respect - 2/12/2004 7:21:11 AM   
MrKing


Posts: 27
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Reno
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lita {Tshai} mostly made my point for me, but I had an illustration I wished to make.

Old fashioned courtesy, though often used to forbid meaningful speech, is actually intended to say the undiplomatic diplomaticly. It does, however, require some skill.

And let us remember that Southern Courtesy persisted longer there as the instituition of duelling also persisted longer.

So here's my illustriation, between Clueless HetDom Wannbe and TPE slave:

StudPanther: Kneel to me, bitch
bella{Donna's}: this one is forbidden to do so.
Studpanther: Why not, cuntface?
this one is forbidden to speak with those who my Owner would think disrespectful of Her property

Courteous, you see, yet as direct as a rock between the eyes.

Courtesy is something that will do socially even when respect does not exist. If we witheld polite regard from those whom we did not respect, or who's opinioins we did not consider worthy, well, as lita {Tshai} said, we'd be at each other's throats in days.

I observe this to point out that courtesy is not dead; but clearly some consider it dispensable when dealing with people in the context of bdsm, and I assure you, it's not.

It's the best means of creating that first impression that may lead to respect, and ulitmately, the life one desires.

And in real life, not having to find out if your dick IS bigger. :>

_____________________________

graphictruth.com
practical libertarianism, free speech, etc.[img]http://tn.cafepress.com/9/2772269_TN.jpg[/img]

(in reply to litaTshai)
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