TallDarkAndWitty
Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leonidas
You can negotiate with your sub all you want to, and have as many safe words as you'd like, but when the relationship turns the corner from her communicating her needs to her controlling the interaction through whatever means of control she decides to use, from "setting limits" to pouting to tantrms to "the look", you have switched roles. Is that not so?
In my view, it is not so.
Here is another perfect example of where we don't see eye to eye. You view "setting limits" as a means of control. I see "setting limits" as a means of communication.
I have two limits. The first things I tell any potential slave is that I won't do anything that could put me in jail or anything that will lead to permanent harm (which I define quite clearly in all of my contracts) of either of us. I am not using these limits as a way to control anyone, they are just information about me that might be useful in determining if we are a match. In addition, they are things I simply will not do. Not for anyone.
The simple truth is that every one has limits. Be they physical, psychological, or emotional. A no-limits slave simply has found someone who won't make her do things that are beyond her limits and she trusts her Master to look out for her.
quote:
All the talk there about acknowledging that there are some things that the slave simply cannot do, or that would be stepping into a psychological minefield are nice for the sake of an argument on this forum, but is that really what you are talking about?
That is what I am really talking about. Here is another example. I negotiated a contract with a slave who had severe scar tissue on her anus, and could not engage in anal sex. That was a "hard limit." Again, was this an attempt to control me?
quote:
I seem to remember some limit that you were negotiating about when there would or would not be toys; hardly something that is physically impossible or potentially traumatizing.
And completely out of context. What you are refering to was the negotiation for the 'nilla part of a weekend visit with a woman who has never experienced a Master/slave structured scene.
Such limits would be completely unacceptable in one of my slave contracts. I have a phrase I like to use during contract negotiation: "request denied."
quote:
I think you were just trying to make points in an argument here, not really convey anything about what you believe, yes?
No. While I love to argue, I never argue to win. I argue to learn and grow and get my own thoughts clear. You have helped me tremendously in this regard, and for that I thank you. *smile*
What I have witten is what I know at this point in time.
quote:
Let me throw a few more "limits" at you that I've heard over the years.
"I will not wear a collar in public. That's demeaning."
"You may not use the word "fat" in my presence. I find it offensive. By the way, this particular sub, when this man slipped and said the "f" word screamed, "hard limit!!" and stormed out of the room, with him redfaced and running after her.
And of course, usually: "You may not play with other submissives".
None of these is asking the slave to fly, eat lead and shit bullets, or take in in the ass from a clydsdale without any lube. They're just ordinary, eveyday things that the submissive doesn't happen to like, and so sets as a "limit". And they are limits that you would agree are valid, would you not?
I would not. The limits you stated above, for me, would be completely and totally unacceptable. I would not play with, much less commit to anyone who had those limits.
That said, what's wrong with lubeless horse cock anal penetration? I assume it is possible...is that a standard gorean limit? *wink*
quote:
Nothing that I am saying here should be constued to mean that people shouldn't have whatever kind of relationship makes them happy. I just wonder, consistant with the title of the thread, where dominance is to be found here?
I would agree that the situation you describe above is not a (in my mind) a quality Master/slave relationship. I think, and statistics show, that quality dominant men are in short supply, so people make do...
quote:
What I was pointing out to you is that people's rhetoric, written and verbal, doesn't always, or even usually, match what they actually do. Even people who are good at what they do sometimes have congnitive explainations for their success that don't really match what you would observe them to be doing if you watched them doing it.
The same can be said for observing. I teach partner dance, at which I am a World Champion. I can't tell you how many students develop bad habits from observing and trying to imitate. All the time I will tell students that it isn't done how it looks.
That said, I clearly understand the value of observing a skilled person doing a difficult activity. I certainly could learn something in watching a skilled interpersonal communicator but what was I supposed to learn by watching a dominant being led about by his dick? Sorry, but most people are just not worth watching...
Yours,
Taggard
_____________________________
A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.
My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com
|
RE: Dominant? - 
Profile
)
) 
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread