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RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 12:13:07 AM   
slaveboy41


Posts: 5
Joined: 7/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

Ya know Taggard, it's true...

Every guy I ever knew (who has been sounded) who's first reaction was "keep it away from me!" not only did they never regret changing their minds, but many of them became a nuisance asking for it later.

I know, it's hard to believe...but I assure you, 'tis true.


my first post on Collarme.com........

the above post of MizSuz's brings back memories of my spending the greater part of the summer with Her a few years back......how at first i kept my stuff in Her medical room hoping that the clutter might save me from "getting medically experimented on"... ::chuckles::....it worked......i never ended up being sounded.... so since i am not part of the above statistic, the jury is still out, i guess, whether or not i will inevitably become one of "those nuissance sound beggars" before my time is up on this planet!!

(in reply to MizSuz)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 6:36:21 AM   
MzBerlin


Posts: 378
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		Sin-
First off- Thanks.
Secondly- I don't mind people commenting on my relationship with He Who Must Not be Named, but I don't like people making assumptions about me (or everyone else in general) based on our unique relationship. We have shared the contracts to be informative and explain how we are negotiating. I personally would like to meet others that engage in contractual relationships. I find it 'safe' but maybe that is because I'm such a sucker for the written word. (and we all know where Voldemort stands )
Thirdly- my last post didn't even elicit a response from the person I was responding to, so I've let it go. In my own words, "Whatever!!"
As Always
Berlin

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 8:30:34 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		Hello,

You are welcome Berlin. There are any number of posters on here who,
as opposed to answering the question, lay seige to the person posting
in order to accomplish whatever evil scheme they hope to accomplish.
While I generally assume it is because they have been asked a question
to which they have no answer or empirical evidence to support their
claim, that is simply an assumption and I cannot provide verification of it.

It is a tactic one sees in the political process in the United States. Rather
than attempting to hold himself up as a Great President Who Has Done
(stifles a laugh) Great Things , the Simian-In-Chief attacks Kerry's
record as a Vietnam veteran. A tactic I find both sadly amusing,
unintelligent, and peurile.

Sadly, the tactic works. It works largely because the reading and education
level averaged out in the US is at about the 7th or 8th grade level. I am
disinterested in engaging with people like that. I want to push
the boundaries of intelligent discourse and learn new things
and have my intellectual boundaries tested, rather than arguing like
grade school children on the playground over whose turn it is to use
the swingset.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

< Message edited by Sinergy -- 7/25/2004 8:36:30 AM >

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to MzBerlin)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 8:35:05 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Secondly- I don't mind people commenting on my relationship with He Who Must Not be Named, but I don't like people making assumptions about me (or everyone else in general) based on our unique relationship. We have shared the contracts to be informative and explain how we are negotiating. I personally would like to meet others that engage in contractual relationships. I find it 'safe' but maybe that is because I'm such a sucker for the written word. (and we all know where Voldemort stands )


Hello,

The issue being discussed was not your relationship with HWMNBN. So it was not germane to the question you asked him, but was instead a direct attack at your
ability to post.

Best to HWMNBN if you would be so kind.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 8:42:26 AM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboy41

my first post on Collarme.com........

the above post of MizSuz's brings back memories of my spending the greater part of the summer with Her a few years back......how at first i kept my stuff in Her medical room hoping that the clutter might save me from "getting medically experimented on"... ::chuckles::....it worked......i never ended up being sounded.... so since i am not part of the above statistic, the jury is still out, i guess, whether or not i will inevitably become one of "those nuissance sound beggars" before my time is up on this planet!!



HA! You did luck out that summer, didn'tcha??? In fact, I can't recall ever even bringing it up. Hmmmm.....have to keep that on the back burner.

Nice to see you here, s. There is a good group of folks here and I'm sure your participation will be a positive contribution.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to slaveboy41)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 8:55:12 AM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

Hello,

Well, this is just me, but I can withhold sex and play a lot longer than either of my two submissives could stand to not be played or banged cross-eyed.

They tried that sort of emotional blackmail. Sadly for them, it did not go as well as they had hoped.

Sinergy


HA! And here I thought I held the title for "Longest Celibate."

The problem with the stereotypical 'tease and denial' scenario is that the person doing the teasing also endures the denial. It's a good argument for having multiple subs.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 9:02:00 AM   
iwillserveu


Posts: 1633
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: SherriA

The first time I did it was at Suz's studio. I had volunteered to be the stunt victim for an electrotorture demo and part of it was going to include electrical sounds. Since I'd never been catheterized or anything of the sort I thought it would be prudent to have a "trial run" in relative privacy first. I wasn't scared, but I wanted to know what to expect before going to do the demo.

I seem to recall projectile orgasms that evening. *grin*

"You'll shoot your eye out!"


SherriA,

Wow. Too rich for my blood, but wow.

sfgrrl,

lol. You are as funny as Estring.

_____________________________

When the Lady smiles i can't resist her call. As a matter of fact, i don't resist at all. Well that depends if it is a smile or a grimmace.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 9:35:40 AM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Ok...in the interest of trying to make examples of both sides of this argument I'd like to convey a true story. Please do settle in, boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen.


When I owned The Void (a fetish studio/dungeon) I once spent some time with a married couple who were, for the most part, novices in the scene. He was the dom, she was the submissive in their dynamic, although she also topped/ dominated/ choose your nomenclature others.

They asked me about safewords one evening and I gave them the standard Red, Yellow, Green. This is how I usually define red/yellow/green (stay with me, this is relevant). Bear in mind that I usually only give this speech to people who request safewords or to someone I don't feel I've got a good enough established relationship with. Otherwise my play style lends itself to normal speech for communication.

Green means you are "good to go" for more. When you use green all options are open to me in how we proceed.

Yellow means if I continue doing what I'm doing you are going to have to say Red. When you use yellow all options are open to me in how we proceed. It's not uncommon that I will slow down, check in, switch up at this time, but I have no obligation to do so. Understand, my preference is to dance all over someone's edge, and if you don't share with me that you are at that edge then you are denying me my pleasure. That means if you are experiencing 'yellow' and not saying 'yellow' then you are not doing your part to communicate. Using the word yellow is a form of communication that I here and now charge you with the responsibility of.

Red means ALL STOP. If you use red because of an emergency (your arm is being pulled out of socket; you're about to slip out of your suspension, this action unexpectedly presses a fight or flight switch in your head, etc.) then kudos to you and thank you for taking your responsibility in your well being to heart! Bravo! But if you use Red because you don't think you can endure anymore (especially if I've not heard a yellow yet) then all play stops, you put your clothes on and you go home. No re-starts or do overs. We'll discuss it within the next 24 hours, but not here and not now.

After a few months the couple in question were visiting my studio and asked me to join them in a scene. Some time into the scene the submissive said "yellow" and I acknowledged her statement and proceeded as I saw fit. This woman had a fit and immediately jumped to 'red,' at which time she said "I told you yellow but you continued." I said, "Yes, because yellow still leaves the decision to me." She responded "When I use yellow with my husband it means to slow down, change the rhythm, toy, or intensity and to check in. It means to change what you're doing."

For me this (the latter exchange) is an example of what Leonidas is talking about. The described dynamic went from the red,yellow, green safewords being a form of communication that still left the bulk of the control in the dominants arena (while providing the submissive with at least one way to communicate for well-being's sake) to it being a way for the bottom to dictate how the scene goes.

I have no doubt this became their dynamic as a way to keep peace in the home. It's not something I will participate in, though, not unless it's agreed in the beginning. I walked away from the scene and left the dominant to his submissive.

Do I think that all negotiation is giving away power? Certainly not, in fact being able to control a situation within an agreed upon framework can be another kind of coup. Do I think that it's very easy to negotiate away control? You bet.

But then, I'm overly sensitive at this point in my life to being seen or treated as a service provider.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 1:25:00 PM   
Thanatosian


Posts: 765
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
Status: offline
quote:

Um...I've had sounds used on me several times. They're especially fun in combination with electricity or tuning forks.


Sherri - ever had a vibrator held to the end of an inserted sound?<evil grin> My current play partner swears by it

and while sounds are mucho fun, I was actually speaking literally - I was talking about the man fucking the woman in her urethra

btw - you didnt get me to cross my legs, as I had inserted a thermometer into my penis when I was about 12 - interesting sensation, just had to be sure to leave enough sticking out to be able to take it out again (and yes I am talking about the old skinny mercury filled glass thermometers)
Apply usual caveats here

_____________________________

Apply Usual Caveats Here

An expert is somone who has made all the mistakes there are to be made

(in reply to SherriA)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 1:57:52 PM   
SherriA


Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thanatosian
Sherri - ever had a vibrator held to the end of an inserted sound?<evil grin> My current play partner swears by it


Oooo...never tried that, but I"m guessing it's similar to the sensation from a tuning fork? Definitely something worth trying. Thanks for the suggestion!

quote:


and while sounds are mucho fun, I was actually speaking literally - I was talking about the man fucking the woman in her urethra


Having recently done some overly large catheter play, I don't think this is very high on my "to do" list. The irritation due to the size of the catheter (which was still significantly smaller than any dick I've ever seen) caused me discomfort for a few days afterwards, even though it was much fun at the time. My preference tends towards average/small penises, but damn, that would have to be a mighty small cock!

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to Thanatosian)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 2:50:40 PM   
ThornBlood


Posts: 91
Joined: 3/5/2004
Status: offline 		*Still crossing my legs*
Not at this time thank you, ask me again in 40 years or so..

Smiles and shrivels,
John

(in reply to SherriA)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 2:52:33 PM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThornBlood

*Still crossing my legs*
Not at this time thank you, ask me again in 40 years or so..

Smiles and shrivels,
John



:::writing the date on my calendar...:::



_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to ThornBlood)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 2:57:03 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thanatosian
Sherri - ever had a vibrator held to the end of an inserted sound?<evil grin> My current play partner swears by it


I'll give this one two thumbs up. I'd give more but I only have two thumbs.

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to Thanatosian)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 4:56:09 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thanatosian
and while sounds are mucho fun, I was actually speaking literally - I was talking about the man fucking the woman in her urethra


Have you read Pornucopia by Piers Anthony? It is all about this guy who...umm..well he ends up doing what you say for various bizzare reasons...

Yours,
Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Thanatosian)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 9:53:25 PM   
Sundew02


Posts: 457
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		My view of being a Dominant is that, yes, I want my way most of the time. BUT not to the total neglect of the males in my world. My definition of being dominant is the one in control, not a selfish ME! ME!! ME!!! I enjoy not only the play, but the day to day interaction with a submissive male. I insist on them voicing fears, ills, and concerns. The problem for me stems from the fact that many male submissives feel they have no right to have human needs or concerns. I have no idea if this is a learned response, or just their personal view of D/s. Sundew

_____________________________


~~~~~Enjoy the ride, the landing could get painful~~~~

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 10:42:02 PM   
MzBerlin


Posts: 378
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


Hello,

The issue being discussed was not your relationship with HWMNBN. So it was not germane to the question you asked him, but was instead a direct attack at your
ability to post.

Best to HWMNBN if you would be so kind.

Sinergy


Sin-
I reread the thread and you are correct. I still think that my post was wholly clear in its' intent though.
As Always
B

(Voldemort is napping right now, but the next time I see him I will.)

(Hopes no one sees me as HP- please refer to avatar if you do)

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 10:54:01 PM   
baileythorne


Posts: 264
Joined: 6/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzBerlin

(Voldemort is napping right now, but the next time I see him I will.)

(Hopes no one sees me as HP- please refer to avatar if you do)


At the risk of opening a can of worms... who is Voldemort?

And what is "HP"?

inquiring minds want to know...

--bailey

_____________________________

Dance like no one's watching and
Love like you've never been hurt.

(in reply to MzBerlin)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 10:57:49 PM   
MzBerlin


Posts: 378
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: baileythorne

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzBerlin

(Voldemort is napping right now, but the next time I see him I will.)

(Hopes no one sees me as HP- please refer to avatar if you do)


At the risk of opening a can of worms... who is Voldemort?

And what is "HP"?

inquiring minds want to know...

--bailey



Bailey-
Voldemort is TWA, Taggard, TallDarkandWitty (DON'T TELL ANYONE. IT'S A BIG SECRET )
HP is Harry Potter. In the books the two are linked by the powers that be (or linked through their own existance *romantic notion*)
As Always
*waiting to meet you*
Berlin

PS- I highly recommend the series.

(in reply to baileythorne)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 11:04:29 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I’m not sure how to interpret comments like “he really dominant (at least with respect to this particular woman), or is he just someone who has learned how to use some toys, and happens to be good at telling others what to do, but not necessarily able himself”


Well, the subject of the thread is (or at least started out to be) an inquiry into the nature of dominance. I think that the question above is clear. Does someone qualify as "dominant" because of the toys they know how to use, and what they say, and what they call themselves, or is something more required? You stated earlier that the one calling the shots is the dominant. Sinergy wrote about a situation where a well known "dominant" didn't really call the shots in his relationship at all. Thus the question.

quote:

Again, you have negated the opposite dynamic in regards to gender, but I’m starting to realise that making that point with you is falling on deaf ears.


I didn't negate it, I just didn't happen to talk about it. The example that we were taking about happened to be a man who called himself dominant and a woman who called herself submissive. Sometimes when I speak of my own experience, I will similarly talk about male dominance and female submission. My intention isn't to suggest that the opposite arrangement doesn't exist, it just isn't what I happen to be talking about right then.

quote:

Though I have met pushover Dom/mes who are just kinky and like to think they are in control and perhaps pussy whipped, I don’t think that negotiating limits puts one in that category.


I agree. At the same time, "negotiating limits" can certainly be a control mechanism for someone who wants the fantasy or appearance of being "submissive" but who really wants to be more or less in control of the interaction. I take it you have never heard a submissive say something to the effect of "the submissives really have all the power, anyway". Notice in my original post about this that the "submissive" party was making all of the ground rules, and the "dominant" party simply went along. A situation like that, as far as I'm concerned, is a role reversal. That is all that I meant to convey.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/25/2004 11:27:42 PM >

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Dominant? - 7/25/2004 11:20:29 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

1) I feel this comment completely deflects from responding directly to the issue being discussed and is instead a rather peurile attack at the person making statements.


I addressed the statement that she made directly after this statement. I wasn't attacking anybody. In our conversation, Taggard started talking about "slaves". I thought maybe he kept slaves, since he saw fit to comment on how he keeps them. From what I had seen on the board so far, they have some kind of relationship. I thought maybe she was his slave.

Where I come from, for me to respond directly to a slave's uninvited intrusion into a conversation between myself and her master would be rude. The respectful thing would be to remain silent and let the man correct his slave. The statement was simply giving her the benefit of the doubt. Either she is his slave and needs his permission to intrude and has it, or she does not need his permission. I could have posted "Taggard, would you mind me responding to her?" first, which achieves the same thing, but It probably would have gotten a similar reaction from you.
quote:

quote:

2) It makes an assumption about, and casts aspersions at the relationship of other people which, in my mind, is nobody's business but the two people involved.


In my conversation with Taggard, he made the argument that limits are necessary because, among other things, slaves can't fly, and sometimes have physical or psychological trauma that impairs them. I simply reminded him that I saw him talking about a "limit" of "no toys on the first day", which wouldn't seem to rise to the level of an immutable law of the universe, or acknowledging a real physical or psychological impairment. I don't care to cast any aspersions on their relationship. In fact, I don't really care about their relationship at all. I do care about the consistency of the argument being made to me.

In hindsight, the smarter thing would have been for me not to respond to her at all. Sometimes I forget that not every assertion warrants a response.

As for the rest of this, fortunately for you, you can get rid of what I have to say with the click of a little red hand. Salesmen aren't usually so easily disposed of.

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 7/26/2004 12:02:44 AM >

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 140
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