softpjOS
Posts: 398
Joined: 6/7/2005
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And yet another shadow lurker creeps forward.....
I as well read and was tempted to reply to the thread on "wants, needs and desires" but managed to contain myself. As you can see, I can only contain myself for so long ~smile~
My reply to this was originally posted (in two parts) to another discussion group and I am editing it only to spare everyone the ramblings of a confused self doubting slave. No, I do not feel your questions/views pertain only to submissives. Perhaps some out there are less self doubting/ secure within themselves but I feel many(even slaves) question themselves, their roles, postions, needs, wants....yadda yadda. So to that end I copy and paste my original "rant/ramblings" in response to your question.
So we toss aside the fantasy BDSM relationship and refocus ourselves on reality. Reality really isn't nearly as much fun but hey....it's umm life. And in life we say/do/think/ quite freely- even us slaves. Regardless of our "title" we have feelings, thoughts, needs, ideas and yes..even opinions. Is a Top's feelings/needs/.....more important... more valued then a bottoms? Some would say yes, others a firm no. Sadly, some's view on this would change depending on current company. And you think I didn't notice that.....oh I do...I just try to be the "good slave" and keep my opinionated yap shut occasionally. ~laughs~ as you can see...that only lasts for so long.
Shall we debate the term "needs"? Who defines a "need" vs a "want"? Is it a carefully negotiated definition that is set in stone? Or something that is addressed as it comes up? An example
slave x is a cutter. she has a past history of releasing stress/tension/hurt/anger by cutting herself. Along comes Master Y, He sets a firm rule of no self mutilation, however knowing slave x's love to be cut not just as a release..uses cutting in play from time to time, including times he knows slave x NEEDS emotional release. A disagreement erupts, words exchanged...slave x is under a lot of stress, questioning herself, her role, her relationship....Master Y is not happy with slave x and decides to ignore her....let her think about what has been said. slave x has told her Master that being ignored makes her feel abandoned, increases her emotional stress. The method she has used to cope with this has been taken away. She is not allowed to cut...the stress/anger/hurt only continues to build, making the situation worse.
In this situation... would cutting be a "want" or a "need"? Should she be able to go to her Master and request release? Should she expect that request to be honored? What if her Master has given her what He considered to be an acceptable alternative to cutting but slave x doesn't find the relief she feels she needs?
I can see the replies about communication being typed now. Communication is absolutely the most important part of any relationship. However, communication isn't always the answer. In the above scenario they have discussed at length the cutting/needs/wants issue. So, because He views it as a "want", she's supposed to smile and say.... oh! yes Sir! thank You Sir! and go about life? Or she's to say..umm Sir?? we need to talk about this and even though he's royally pissed at her and mad as hell, he's going to say... oh, your right..lets talk! Certainly!! If that is we were talking about those fantasy relationships again, but this is reality folks. Real emotions/hurt/anger. Not the sci fi channel.
So why the statement " If slave/sub does not mean we are to be treated like a doormat...at what point are we allowed to stand up and said NO, this isn't right without being seen as a demanding brat? When are we allowed to say we NEED something and not be considered demanding?
Quite probably it is conflict within myself. I can only give what She wishes to take. What reality allows. She is very careful to not interfere with my family life. Very cautious of what She is willing to ask of me. We are also at the opposite ends of the spectrum on many things. I am what many would call a "neat freak", always cleaning....I love to cook, bake....where She is more the laid back "the house isn't going to be condemned", dinner??? umm how about a sandwich....(gonna get swatted for that one ~laughs~). She'll build you a house, fix your car but don't ask Her to touch a bank statement. Oh yes, we are VERY different people. Our biggest difference being how to handle teenagers. Argh! Her being such a laid back person and me being the organized dominant personality I am....oh yes, the differences jump out and bite us in the rump quite often in this department. Do I try to take control of Her life? Absolutely! When I see the kids pushing Her around, Her friends/family being too demanding, see Her overwhelmed with errands because She is so giving of Herself....you betcha... I step up and say..now hold the phone here....You are one person, yes I am there to help Her but.....when the same people (ok the kids) continue to place excessive demands on Her and I'm forced (not by Her ..by my love for Her) to step up and try to take some of the burden She faces....You bet I get mad. THAT is where the feeling of being treated like a "doormat" comes from. Not Her. Her love and willingness to do for others, deserving or undeserving..She will do anything for anyone. Which in turn places me (self imposed all the way)into the position of also doing for the unappreciative others in Her life without so much as a second glance or thank you. In fact most times I get the complete opposite from them, hostile attitudes, rude, disrespectful behavior. Yea, kids are going to feel that way towards any "step parent" which is the position I guess I fall into, and how many step parents out there "rant" about these same issues?
Because I feel the need (yes NEED) to be there for Her in all ways, at all times, I place MYSELF into the position of feeling like a doormat to them. Which opens the door for me to feel like ok... She's ALLOWING them to do this. Ah ha! So maybe it is Her? Most likely it is me. My wish to make everything a bed of roses for Her. My desire to take care of, protect Her. The very fact that She does everything within Her power to NOT ask me to pick up any of this load causes more frustration. I WANT to help Her. But that good ole dominant side of me says oh HELL no, that brat doesn't deserve to be taken to the mall. Conflict? You bet. Frustration? A whole new level. So I try to focus on the fact that I am doing this for Her. Entirely for Her. That only lasts for so long.
When I read Jay's reply (with Mistress by my side) I almost cried.
"Somehow we expect that we say to have the same meaning to everyone, and the truth is far from that. What is presented, and what is perceived are sometimes not even on the same road map. No matter what is said, or written down, what is perceived goes through that filtering process of our experience, and when all is said and done, the meanings will be as vastly different as each person's life experiences."
Wow...finally someone put into words (that make sense) what I've been rambling about for years.
"There is that evil word, communication. However, what does it really mean? Communication is not the act of talking and listening. This is often confused with communicating, but like in pj's experiences, there is a critical piece missing, the understanding. Sure, part of communication will be in words, but where words fail, the need for understanding still exists. Somehow we need to bridge our own internal worlds to have the words make sense. Still, even with understanding being the key, finding the right vehicle can be tough. Though there are many paths to understanding, but there are far fewer ways to be understood. Sometimes it takes talk, sometimes journals and diaries, sometimes counseling, and sometimes psychological tests. There is no one right path to understanding."
We spend many nights talking, I write daily in my journal, She gives me assignments designed to make me evaluate how I think/see/feel. Does any of this help? Absolutely. Going back to my old journals and comparing how I reacted to situations in the past and how I am seeing them now helps me see that yes, I am changing. The entries about cutting have decreased dramatically. It takes a much higher level of stress/frustration for that need to become overwhelming. There are times that Her alternative WILL work (ok ok so maybe She is right- and yes that was painful to say). ~laughs~ In time, with Her guidance and support I am optimistic that cutting will be firmly in the past. With of course the occasional play being the exception *grins*.
It has been a very long road for me to get to where I am today. Sometimes it is frustrating and I see only more road ahead and forget to look back and see the distance I have already traveled. That's where my old journals are so invaluable. Oh I grumbled plenty about doing them at first, but today I don't care if it's 2am before I can sit down and write..it is something I look forward to.
When I wrote my original post, I was full of frustration and confused. I needed to refocus and re evaluate myself. I thank everyone for helping me do just that. I needed to remember that I am who I am and comparing myself to anyone else will cause nothing but more frustration and confusion. Am I a bad "slave"? Hell no I'm not. Am I a pain in Her ass on a (too) frequent basis... umm yep... that I am. But She loves me even more for it. Will the kids eventually grow up and leave home? Oh lord I hope so. ~laughs~ I am exactly (most days) what She wants and expects. But that doesn't stop me from wanting to be even more for Her. Even if She doesn't expect it. To me, rising above Her expectations, continuing to surprise Her with my service to Her is my ultimate reward. Seeing that smile on Her face when I catch Her by surprise when I pop over out of the blue with a cold pop or rented movies for Her to kick back and relax with. I just need to remind myself that She (out of Her love for me) won't always give me what I want...She evaluates every situation and determines what is best for the both of us.
I submit to Her but that doesn't mean I give up who I am or that I'm going to let Her do something that down the road is going to come back and bite Her in the tush. My service to Her isn't restricted to the bedroom or weekends......my service to Her requires me to sometimes be dominant to others. I submit my heart, soul and life to serving Her in ALL ways. No, maybe some wouldn't consider windows, laundry, dishes part of their responsibilities but I do. Errands, housework, keeping Her schedule...these are the very things that I feel make me not Her sub, but Her slave. To see the smile on Her face when She returns to Her bedroom to find it dusted and straightened up (hey.. good excuse to see where She hides the dreaded clove oil (~yup, I'm still "me"~) is all the reward I need. She knows that She can ask anything of me and not hear "umm that isn't part of the "deal"....but that doesn't mean that I may not have an opinion (occasionally loud) on the task asked of me.
Hopefully this copied and pasted without making a complete mess of things. In defense of myself if it does post as a mess....its my first post here so please be gentle on the heckling. If anyone is interested in reading both original posts please feel free to contact me and I'll forward both to you... I only wished to spare most readers the pain of reading two of my posts in their entirety at once. You see.. I've never been known to be short winded ~insert sheepish grin~.
To those in the position of questioning themselves/their roles, positions... needs/wants all I can say is take a deep breath..step back and refocus. Typically when I finally find myself to the point that I want to speak up, I am frustrated to the point of not necessarily communicating my thoughts in the most respectful of ways (yup I'm me) so we have agreed that when I feel this way I am to come to Her, kneel naked at Her feet (takes away any possibility of my demeener being "threatening") and sit quietly until I am able to calmly and respectfully state my concerns/needs/wants. It also signals to Her that I am frustrated/upset and allows Her to brace (laughs) errr prepare Her own mindset to one of perhaps listening closer to what I have to say...knowing it is something that is sincerely bothering me.
Just my thoughts, hopefully it made sense and no one has tossed their reading glasses on my account.
pj
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