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ORIGINAL: SoulPiercer
Maybe this is a topic for another day, but why is it that people form this sense of ownership/commitment so early on when they have not yet looked into the other person's eyes?

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

I refused to just "get over it", so he released me, but has given me tonight to think about it. I feel that if he can do such a thing without consideration of my feelings, what else is he capable of? If a sub cannot trust her Dom to always care for her on the most basic levels such as trust, then she cannot trust Him in the more important ways. He feels that as a Dom, admitting any wrong-doing to me, a sub, would be beneath Him. I need insight, please.

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ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

Wow, I had no idea so many were so sceptical of starting relationships online. Not what I expected here, on an online message board. 

I do understand your distress at the negativity you've received on this point, however, I'd say that the key idea you aren't getting with these responses is that while most here accept that you can meet someone online with whom you can develop a successful relationship, few will agree that it is wise to commit to that relationship before you've had a chance to meet and spend time with each other in person.

Even fewer accept the idea that you can form any type of functioning online D/s relationship without ever having met in person... especially one that involves "training" or the so-called "training collar".

For me, personally, it helps me to know a great deal of what a Dom expects before I even agree to meet him in person, especially if He is not in my immediate area. That makes it sound as if I've a great deal of experience searching...on the contrary, I just know what I'm not looking for and that makes it easier to weed out the obvious wanna-bes. The purpose of the "training collar" as he called it, was for me to get a good idea of what life with him might have been like, knowing fully that it was only a small sampling with no possible way of being completely accurate...but it was a start...and yes, as someone else has said, it filled a need for me and him both, and we both expect it to become an offline exploration with in only a few weeks.

As for your original post...

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

While we had discussed Him sharing me in real life if I accepted His collar, we had both agreed that we would not be with another sexually until we were able to meet in person.

Okay, you say that you discussed him sharing you... but did you have in your mind that you would also be sharing him?  Did you expect that if and when you became sexually involved with others that it would be under circumstances that you were aware of and consented to beforehand?  Was this dominant specific with you in that he expected to be free to have sexual activity with whomever he wished, whenever he wished, without your knowledge or consent?  When you discussed not being with another sexually until you met, did you clarify with each other what was specifically meant by that... defining exactly what sexual contact was being abstained from?

My point in asking these questions is to get you to think about exactly how well you communicated your wants and desires.  You say that his actions were, to you, a betrayal of your trust and the agreement you had between you, but just how careful were you in building that trust and in coming to that agreement?  It doesn't sound as if he agrees with you.

Yes, we had discussed all of this at length....details, hypothetical situations, needs, wants, desires of both of us...lots and lots of details. One of our strengths was communicating with each other, which is why I have struggled with this, because it was contrary to what I had come to expect from him. I had also checked into all the personal information he gave me initially, as one who has heard all of the horror stories and has had experience with online freaks and stalkers. I am not as naive as all of this makes me sound...there are many aspects of this I haven't shared here, both due to privacy issues and the need for brevity, but I do feel I was approaching it with my eyes as open as possible to the pitfalls. That's why I'm here now.

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

He felt that, as a sub, I should "get over it" and wasn't willing to admit he had done anything wrong.

... He feels that as a Dom, admitting any wrong-doing to me, a sub, would be beneath Him.

While I would not accept this reasoning, I would have made this clear before I ever entered into a power-exchange relationship.  Did you?

Yes, I did.

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

I refused to just "get over it", so he released me, but has given me tonight to think about it.

Hmm... this, all by itself, is reason enough for me to walk away, provided that I somehow lost my senses and became involved with this dominant in the first place.   Who needs a dominant that is wishy-washy?

He had not exhibited behavior like this before today. I'm thankful it came out before we went further.

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

... i'm asking for input from understanding Doms.

Understand yourself and what you want, first.  Then, find someone who makes sense to you. 

When that happens, you don't need to struggle to understand them.

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

... is it out of line for a sub to expect a Dom to be willing to admit when he is wrong?

Who cares what anyone else thinks is out of line for a sub?  Question is, do you think it's out of line to expect anyone to admit to you when they are wrong?  If not, then find a partner who agrees with you.

Thank you. This is a good lesson for me to learn.

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ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

what would it matter if hundreds of people said yes you were wrong. You feel the way you do, you felt wronged, and that's the end of it. You negotiated something and he broke the negotiation. The only persons opinion here that matters is yours. if you feel he was wrong doesn't matter if hundreds of others say yes he was or no he isn't/. Stop relying on other people's opinions for vindication and trust yours.

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66
I won't get into our reasons for it, although they're likely obvious with some thought.

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ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

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ORIGINAL: SoulPiercer
Maybe this is a topic for another day, but why is it that people form this sense of ownership/commitment so early on when they have not yet looked into the other person's eyes?

People crave attention and affection -- and when they get both from someone who is still two-dimensional (online-only) the only way to flesh that person out is to "guess" at who they really are.  This means, in many many cases, projecting all their hopes and desires of the perfect mate/relationship on that still-mostly-virtual person.  With no real-life contact, there are no cues to indicate the "guesses" are incorrect.  It's a combination of knowing a real person and having an imaginary friend.

I've made several friends online-to-real.  But the actual friendship started the day we shook hands in real life.  Everything leading up to that was flirtation -- a 21st century mating dance.

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66
I won't get into our reasons for it, although they're likely obvious with some thought.

Were you online only because one or both of you is in a relationship with someone else? Was the person he was sexual with recently his wife or significant other?

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66
Those who are less than who they present themselves to be online generally come to light, especially if you know the tells.

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

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ORIGINAL: mistoferin

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66
I won't get into our reasons for it, although they're likely obvious with some thought.

Were you online only because one or both of you is in a relationship with someone else? Was the person he was sexual with recently his wife or significant other?

No. Neither of us are married or otherwise involved. The person he was sexual with was a chance encounter.

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ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66
Those who are less than who they present themselves to be online generally come to light, especially if you know the tells.

As pointed out in detail by TreasureKY, you either (a) aren't as good at reading people as you thought, or (b) something is going on that causes you to doubt your common sense.  Which is it?

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

A)  Why would someone in a training only situation be prohibited from fucking others?  What does training have to do with enjoying some sex?

It was a personal choice for both of us, discussed at length and agreed upon.

B)  He betrayed your trust...but you're willing to say that's ok.  Do you understand exactly how that will teach him to treat you and accept the consequences?

Once I realized his attitude about it, I knew it wouldn't be okay. Had he been willing to acknowledge that, even as a sub, I had a right to feel betrayed and hurt, there would have been room for healing and moving on. It didn't happen, obviously.


Take my advice- don't make a commitment to anyone for at least six months.  And when you do, try and make sure it's someone you know a little better.

Excellent advice. Thank you.

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66
It was a personal choice for both of us, discussed at length and agreed upon.

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Once I realized his attitude about it, I knew it wouldn't be okay. Had he been willing to acknowledge that, even as a sub, I had a right to feel betrayed and hurt, there would have been room for healing and moving on. It didn't happen, obviously.

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66
It was a personal choice for both of us, discussed at length and agreed upon.

OK that's understandable then.  But do know that many many people who use the term trainer and mentor and teacher are just trying to use happy euphemisms to get your guard down when they really just want to manipulate you like anyone.

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Once I realized his attitude about it, I knew it wouldn't be okay. Had he been willing to acknowledge that, even as a sub, I had a right to feel betrayed and hurt, there would have been room for healing and moving on. It didn't happen, obviously.

I suppose I believe in giving second chances, but when it was something so obvious and so egregious, why?  So he felt remorse...that would teach him that next time he'd just have to act sorry and give a little more cyber lovin and you'd be fine.

When there was so little invested to begin with, I don't see the point of taking more of a risk.

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66
Not new to me, no. But I had struggled with it enough to want to seek advice from others, though, who are familiar with such relationships, which is why I was here seeking input from Doms...isn't that the purpose of this forum? To ask advice from those who have experience? It didn't seem out of line for me to expect him to be willing to admit he was wrong, if the relationship was important to him.

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

Something happened today between the Dom I was under a training collar with, online only, and I need to get other Dom's opinions on if I was wrong as a sub to take the stance I did.

A quick summary: he and I have not met in person, but have spent a great deal of time talking and had gotten to know each other enough to feel comfortable with beginning the training process to the extent we could online, both being aware of the limitations. While we had discussed Him sharing me in real life if I accepted His collar, we had both agreed that we would not be with another sexually until we were able to meet in person.

Today he openly admitted to having participated in  sexual activity (no intercourse) this weekend.  In my mind, that was a betrayal of my trust and the agreement that we had between us. Normally, I would have walked away right then, but was willing to try to work past it, based on the strength of everything else we had built thus far. He felt that, as a sub, I should "get over it" and wasn't willing to admit he had done anything wrong. I refused to just "get over it", so he released me, but has given me tonight to think about it. I feel that if he can do such a thing without consideration of my feelings, what else is he capable of? If a sub cannot trust her Dom to always care for her on the most basic levels such as trust, then she cannot trust Him in the more important ways. He feels that as a Dom, admitting any wrong-doing to me, a sub, would be beneath Him. I need insight, please.

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if both are committed to it,

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ORIGINAL: Moonchild66

I hope people can look past that part and address the actual issue I have asked about.