RE: Argument or discussion (Full Version)

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Mercnbeth -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 7:57:22 AM)

looking it up in the dictionary, "argue" and "discuss" have identical meanings.
 
is your definition of argue more along the lines of "fight"? (where there is a competition of sorts, with each contending with each other in a win-lose scenario.)
 
or more closely described by the word "bicker"?(to engage in a petty, bad-tempered quarrel.)
 
this slave is all about discussion and even argument, as the dictionary defines them, but in no way is ever inspired or motivated to "fight" or "bicker" with Master.  she has no desire to "win" and argument or discussion by treating it like a "fight".  she sees bickering as disrespectful, shameful, bad-mannered and not her place to engage Him in that manner.
Added by Merc:
quote:

beth: but in no way is ever inspired or motivated to "fight" or "bicker" with Master.

The down-side is that we've never experienced 'make-up sex'.

Besides - [sm=doh.gif] since beth knows that I'm always right, arguing is a waste of time?![sm=biggrin.gif]



mistoferin -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 8:01:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

looking it up in the dictionary, "argue" and "discuss" have identical meanings.
 
is your definition of argue more along the lines of "fight"? (where there is a competition of sorts, with each contending with each other in a win-lose scenario.)
 
or more closely described by the word "bicker"?(to engage in a petty, bad-tempered quarrel.)
 
this slave is all about discussion and even arguement, as the dictionary defines them, but in no way is ever inspired or motivated to "fight" or "bicker" with Master.  she has no desire to "win" and arguement or discussion by treating it like a "fight".  she sees bickering as disrespectful, shameful, bad-mannered and not her place to engage Him in that manner.


Thanks beth. In going over this thread I was wondering if people were simply viewing the terms differently. There is a HUGE difference between an "argument" and a "fight".



Alumbrado -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 8:34:39 AM)

quote:

looking it up in the dictionary, "argue" and "discuss" have identical meanings.



No, argument is a form of discussion, with the component of disagreement added in... discussions where both parties are in agreement are no more 'identical' to an argument than the man in the moon.

And as pointed out above, 'arguing' does not have to mean a violent screaming match either... that is just one subset of argumentation, and not a terribly useful one.

Taking the terms in their apparent context from the OP, both can be valid forms of expression, and I've got no use for a relationship that announces from the onset that valid emotions, and the expression thereof, is 'forbidden'.
Might work in a fantasy novel, but real life operates more along the lines of 'never say never'...[:D]



subtee -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 8:53:33 AM)

~FR

Come on...fight sex!

Anyone????



Dnomyar -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 9:01:48 AM)

Grins subtee [sm=spanking.gif]



Mercnbeth -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 9:07:18 AM)


quote:

looking it up in the dictionary, "argue" and "discuss" have identical meanings.



quote:

No, argument is a form of discussion, with the component of disagreement added in... discussions where both parties are in agreement are no more 'identical' to an argument than the man in the moon.


Alumbrado et al,
 
deepest apologies for using the word "identical" when this slave should have used the more appropriate word "synonymous".



Prinsexx -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 9:16:11 AM)

I don't think arguments and discussions are distinct phenomena. In academic questions the terms are used in similar ways, as in discuss the relevant details of....or argue the case for.....I think they are terms relating to a continuum of expression, like body temperature say.....it's on a scale.
Also: one man's argument is another man's discussion.......
In vanilla relationships I would argue until plates got smashed, until we were both upping the anti to intolerable levels.
In bdsm relationships I have usually followed the requests of my partner. This is because I have known that with  the type of dominants thus far opposition of any scale is has been off the menu. I'm a feisty bitch enough to try the patience of the most saintly dom. I guess I quite like arguments though as making up is divine and comes with its own rewards. A non-emotive, placidity bores me and if I am given half a chance to get bored I will.



Alumbrado -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 9:21:53 AM)

A lot of people find themselves confused by the distinction between 'parts of the same category', and 'the same as'.



missturbation -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 9:27:48 AM)

quote:

is your definition of argue more along the lines of "fight"? (where there is a competition of sorts, with each contending with each other in a win-lose scenario.)

Yes and no. For me fight refers more to physical, argue mental. However i can see the lines you are going along so yes.
 
quote:

but in no way is ever inspired or motivated to "fight" or "bicker" with Master. 

Agreed other than the turn of phrase.





UncleNasty -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 10:09:12 AM)

Sometimes I put my own or definitions on words.

Argue = compete = one wins and one looses

Discuss = everybody wins

There is such a thing as a passionate discussion, at least for me there is. Kind of problem solving with passion.

Uncle Nasty



batshalom -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 10:31:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave is all about discussion and even argument, as the dictionary defines them, but in no way is ever inspired or motivated to "fight" or "bicker" with Master.  she has no desire to "win" and argument or discussion by treating it like a "fight".  she sees bickering as disrespectful, shameful, bad-mannered and not her place to engage Him in that manner.


Beautiful as always, beth. ~smiling~ And agreed.



AquaticSub -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 11:35:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

Arguing doesn't have to be destructive as long as things aren't said that are only meant to be hurtful, but venting emotion seems ok to me. It could be, though, that I am misunderstanding "discussion" as it is being used here. Is your house always calm and quiet with no raised voices (during such discussions)? If so, wow again! I think my body might implode if those feelings didn't have a place to go - sometimes, like laughter, the feeling is too large to be contained inside myself.



I have to echo this. We have many respectful discussions but we also fight from time to time. There isn't any name-calling or lashing out at each other just to hurt, but they are fights.



AquaticSub -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 11:40:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

I'm a little confused here, hoping someone can enlighten me.
For me arguing with Sir shows a complete lack of respect.
Confused as to how a blazing row can be respectful of either party.


There is a difference between an argument and a blazing row, in our opinions. He isn't slinging insults and neither am I. But we aren't calmly sitting down and discussing things over tea. Our voices are raised, our dander is up though we are sticking to the issue at hand and not calling each other names. The issue gets resolved and, which our emotions high, we have some really hot primal sex afterwards.

Neither of us are complaining.

Edited for word misuse - thanks Beth



ownedgirlie -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 11:41:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

I wonder why so many people have this image of TPE or Master/slave relationships as being so harsh, that a slave is not permitted to express thoughts, feelings/emotions, and point of views... let alone be permitted to have any? 



I haven't seen anyone here saying they are not allowed to express thoughts, feelings, emotions and points of view, or not allowed to have any.

I am required to express all my thoughts, feelings, emotions, and points of view.  I'm just not allowed to do it at high decibles. 



lizcgirl -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 11:49:09 AM)

I have an irrational temper, when I get mad, I WANT to fight. My Daddy is the opposite, He won't fight with me. He simply derails my anger and discusses what's bothering me. At the moment, it frustrates the hell out of me, but afterwards I am EXTREMELY grateful He had enough foresight to not let me provoke Him into an argument over absolutely nothing.



ownedgirlie -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 11:50:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

looking it up in the dictionary, "argue" and "discuss" have identical meanings.
 
is your definition of argue more along the lines of "fight"? (where there is a competition of sorts, with each contending with each other in a win-lose scenario.)
 
or more closely described by the word "bicker"?(to engage in a petty, bad-tempered quarrel.)
 


Hi beth,

You make a good point (as usual), although argue has various meanings.  It can be synonymous with discussion, but it can also mean "contentious dispute."  When I see questions about "argue vs. discuss" I tend to think "contentious dispute" vs. "conversation of opposing opinions."  Perhaps that's what others here are thinking, as well. 

"Arguement" itself can be quite a benign word, and I've used it as such before, only to be challenged by those applying the "contentious" definition to it.  I suppose it's a case of choosing words for your audience carefully.  An "arguement" can simply be a variable in a mathematical equation, after all.  :)

So the confusion is that argue is both synonymous with fight and discuss.  But I'm glad you brought up the less than considered meaning, as it's something I forget from time to time, myself.

As it stands, I am not allowed to be argumentative with my Master, meaning bitching to him and picking apart things he says (I used to try that a lot).  I am not allowed to fight with hi m.  I am allowed to discuss opposing points of views to him, in fact, I am required to.



velvetears -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 12:29:52 PM)

i would venture to say that most of the respondants here haven't lived in heavily predominant Italian neighborhoods [:D]  Though i am not Italian myself, i have known and lived around many and even greeting and saying hello can seem like an argument lol.  Discussions almost always have a yelling-arguing quality to them.  There is constructive and destructive arguing - in my house it was mostly the destructive kind so when i had to acclimate myself to my friends it was difficult because i had to readjust my thinking that arguing didn't necessarily need to lead to hurt or devestated feelings.  The trepidation went away and i adjusted. 

The times i find myself in least control is when i feel most frustrated with people who are either negating my emotions or ignoring them altogether.  But experience has taught me that it's like beating a dead horse.  In a face to face altercation, if someone is trying to intimidate me, they see the bull rise up in me and just the thought of being bullied puts me in a rage and i retaliate.  i guess left overs from a childhood where i felt a sense of complete non control as well as other experiences in life similar to that. 



ownedgirlie -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 12:31:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i would venture to say that most of the respondants here haven't lived in heavily predominant Italian neighborhoods [:D] 


LOL.  I'm Spanish on my Mom's side and Italian on my Dad's.  Trust me, I know all about it.  [8D]




clevername2 -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 12:38:07 PM)

I see a discussion as the cooperative viewing of all sides of the subject. An argument is when you make the case for one thing against others.



mistoferin -> RE: Argument or discussion (5/14/2008 12:40:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
i would venture to say that most of the respondants here haven't lived in heavily predominant Italian neighborhoods [:D]  Though i am not Italian myself, i have known and lived around many and even greeting and saying hello can seem like an argument lol.  Discussions almost always have a yelling-arguing quality to them. 


I'm an Irish girl who grew up in an Irish/Italian neighborhood in Brooklyn, no less. I can totally relate to what you are saying.



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