Polar bears endangered species? (Full Version)

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Alumbrado -> Polar bears endangered species? (5/14/2008 7:34:57 PM)

 


I'm not up on the details of global warming well enough to make a claim that it is or isn't  a carved in stone certainty...



But if you heard some government official saying that it would be 'wholly inappropriate' to link the deaths of parakeets in the  mines with levels of safe air, would you stay in the mine?


quote:

The Interior Department declared the polar bear a threatened species Wednesday because of the loss of Arctic sea ice but also cautioned the decision should not be viewed as a path to address global warming.
Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne cited dramatic declines in sea ice over the last three decades and projections of continued losses, meaning, he said, that the polar bear is a species likely to be in danger of extinction in the near future.
But Kempthorne said it would be "wholly inappropriate" to use the protection of the bear to reduce greenhouse gases, or to broadly address climate change.

The Endangered Species Act "is not the right tool to set U.S. climate policy," said Kempthorne, reflecting a view recently expressed by President Bush.

http://green.yahoo.com/news/ap/20080514/ap_on_sc/polar_bear.html



kittinSol -> RE: Polar bears endangered species? (5/14/2008 7:46:49 PM)

The icecaps are melting, but it's got nothing to do with global warming, it's actually an Al Gore invention, didn't you read the memo? *sigh*

I bet the government wishes the WWF would just shut the fuck up... oh well, too late. This time.



Leatherist -> RE: Polar bears endangered species? (5/14/2008 7:48:49 PM)

We should vote to move the bears to DC, and let then eat deadwood politicians and civil servants. Kill two birds with one stone.........



Alumbrado -> RE: Polar bears endangered species? (5/14/2008 7:51:02 PM)

Now that is brilliant... since the bears are endangered, no one could shoot them, even to protect the politicians, who are not endangered.



TheHeretic -> RE: Polar bears endangered species? (5/14/2008 8:32:56 PM)

       Not a fair analogy. Alum,  We don't have the elevators off the planet working yet.  It matters WHY the canaries are dying. 

       If, as you say, the reasons are not set in stone, why would we give a legal battering ram to one, radical side of the argument?


       This planet is a lot older than we are.  It has been carved by ice growing and retreating many times.  I don't know that human activity is the cause of this particular round.  If we did inadvertently start something with our technological evolution, I suspect our species is just going to have to adapt.  We sure don't know enough to put it back.

        Frankly, I don't want a movement completely co-opted by the political left empowered to try and fix anything. 



Alumbrado -> RE: Polar bears endangered species? (5/14/2008 8:42:07 PM)

You've completely missed the point.



TheHeretic -> RE: Polar bears endangered species? (5/14/2008 8:57:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

You've completely missed the point.



  
Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne cited dramatic declines in sea ice over the last three decades and projections of continued losses, meaning, he said, that the polar bear is a species likely to be in danger of extinction in the near future.
But Kempthorne said it would be "wholly inappropriate" to use the protection of the bear to reduce greenhouse gases, or to broadly address climate change.
 
 
        That's from your link.  My post was...  dare I say it???  In agreement with an official of the Bush Administration.

      I saw what happened to the economy of southern Oregon when the spotted owl became the most important thing in the woods.  The owls have been spotted living in the sign of an abandoned tire dealership, and all the fucking jobs are gone.  And we have precisely zero reason to believe that putting the world (or at least the western capitalist parts, since communist pollution seems to be just fine) into economic chaos would save a single bear.



Alumbrado -> RE: Polar bears endangered species? (5/14/2008 9:01:42 PM)

quote:

My post was...  dare I say it???  In agreement with an official



That was the point. 



TheHeretic -> RE: Polar bears endangered species? (5/14/2008 10:45:59 PM)

       So are you saying that I missed the point, or hit it squarely on the head???  Yes, I can appreciate the seeming irony of the remarks, but it's only there if you accept the presumptions that we can do we can do a damn thing about climate change.



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Polar bears endangered species? (5/14/2008 10:59:39 PM)

A polar bear's perspective on the issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6rPcHqtSnU&feature=related



LadyEllen -> RE: Polar bears endangered species? (5/15/2008 1:47:03 AM)

Heretic  there's no need to "put the western world into economic chaos". There's a need (well, quite a few needs - security being top of my list, followed by environment) to get away from fossil fuels - which means an opportunity to develop new technology and thereby put the western world into strong economic growth.
E



Rule -> RE: Polar bears endangered species? (5/15/2008 2:49:40 AM)

Seems to me them bears have some rapid evolving to do. If they cannot, well that will be just too bad.



DomKen -> RE: Polar bears endangered species? (5/15/2008 6:16:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I saw what happened to the economy of southern Oregon when the spotted owl became the most important thing in the woods.  The owls have been spotted living in the sign of an abandoned tire dealership, and all the fucking jobs are gone.  And we have precisely zero reason to believe that putting the world (or at least the western capitalist parts, since communist pollution seems to be just fine) into economic chaos would save a single bear.

The spotted owls only live in a particular environment of old growth forest so if the lumber companies had been sustainably harvesting, as they claimed to be and the law requires, then no spotted owl habitat would have needed to go under the saw to keep the lumber business going in the northwest. But since it cut into profits and required paying people to plant trees so they could be cut in a few decades the lumber companies didn't do it. But every so often someone trots out this BS about the spotted owl killing the lumber industry in the Pacific Northwest when it is quite completely clear that the lumber companies did it to themselves. All the listing of the owl did was mean the industry died a few years early.



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