RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country

RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (Full Version)

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awmslave -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/17/2008 1:45:25 PM)
As I see it the only candidate who really addressed the very serious situation US is right now was Ron Paul. US has over-extended its limits and it will face financial collapse if some serious steps will not be taken to avoid the inevitable. The problem is broken government that can not establish any long term strategy. Will Obama fix it? I do not think so. Although, Obama would be the best choice because he is the only one who would potentially try while Clinton and McCain would conceal and the problem and they would try to create another pseudo-solution like Bush/Greenspan bubble spending/borrowing.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/17/2008 2:11:29 PM)
Is Carter a former President? So he can be seen as a very influential figure in our country. Is Carter trying to calm the situation? I believe so. Is Carter trying to aquire peace by concessions? I believe so as well. I do believe that Carter fits what I have read on appeasement. Now do I believe he should? Why not? If someone can bring peace, let them.

chickpea -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/17/2008 4:37:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: awmslave As I see it the only candidate who really addressed the very serious situation US is right now was Ron Paul. US has over-extended its limits and it will face financial collapse if some serious steps will not be taken to avoid the inevitable. The problem is broken government that can not establish any long term strategy. Will Obama fix it? I do not think so. Although, Obama would be the best choice because he is the only one who would potentially try while Clinton and McCain would conceal and the problem and they would try to create another pseudo-solution like Bush/Greenspan bubble spending/borrowing. Yea, I think Obama being an outsider, will have a better perspective to attack the mess (plus he's smart, not that that's much of a compliment actually being smarter than bush). If you're in the middle of the mess (or caused it...cough bush cough bush), then that dust bunny you just swept off the floor will come flying back at your face.

chickpea -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/17/2008 4:39:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity I guess you haven't heard about Jimmah's latest trip? It made all the headlines... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1wSZBTAXRs Yeah sure,keep tell`n yourself that. And McCain's parallel comments and those of his surrogates,they were all speaking about Carter also?lol Give us a break. If Bush was talking about Carter, then he's definitely smoking something out there in the White House.

DomKen -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/17/2008 5:14:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Is Carter a former President? So he can be seen as a very influential figure in our country. Is Carter trying to calm the situation? I believe so. Is Carter trying to aquire peace by concessions? I believe so as well. I do believe that Carter fits what I have read on appeasement. Now do I believe he should? Why not? If someone can bring peace, let them. Once again how can a private citizen be an appeaser? Don't dance around, tell me exactly how a private citizen can enter into a binding treaty on behalf of a nation to give away half of another nation? What military force can he agree not to send into the field? Which treaties can he order a government to ignore?

celticlord2112 -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/17/2008 5:22:52 PM)
Obama is so on target with what's wrong with Democrats. They talk....and talk....and talk....and talk....and talk.... Doing just never shows up on their radar. Talk is cheap. Leadership is in the doing, a concept that is as alien to Obama as respecting civil rights is to Bush. Obama will not do good service for this country until he quits flapping his jaw and goes home to Chicago for good.

cloudboy -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/17/2008 6:31:03 PM)
What Obama said goes right to the heart of his campaign for the Presidency --- which is to install leadership which is not divisive and dishonest in how it conducts policy.

TheHeretic -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/17/2008 7:17:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy What Obama said goes right to the heart of his campaign for the Presidency --- which is to install leadership which is not divisive and dishonest in how it conducts policy. Right. And George W. Bush was going to be "a uniter, not a divider."

subrob1967 -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/17/2008 10:10:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chickpea Yea, I think Obama being an outsider, will have a better perspective to attack the mess (plus he's smart, not that that's much of a compliment actually being smarter than bush). If you're in the middle of the mess (or caused it...cough bush cough bush), then that dust bunny you just swept off the floor will come flying back at your face. Obama, outsider? LMFAO... He's from CHICAGO, he's no outsider, he's a puppet with charisma. He's an empty suit, full of empty promises, none of which, the current congress will let him fulfill. Barack Hussein Obama is all shadow, no substance, and his political masters are pulling some mighty big strings to get him elected.

Owner59 -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/17/2008 11:07:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Just defend the scurrilous comments by Bush and stop the hi-jack. It`s not about you. And you get to assign the thoughts and opinions of other posters because..... ??? I happen to think "appeasement" is a very good word for what some on the left seek in the ME. I happen to think that requiring Hamas/whoever to acknowledge Israel's right to exist is a fair demand BEFORE we sit down. Peace was on the table not so long ago, and the Palestinians walked away. I have zero intention of watching a Bush speech on my day off. "And you get to assign the thoughts and opinions of other posters because..... ???" No more that we`re going to assign the thoughts and opinions of the Arabs in the ME. We spoke to the Soviets,we speak to the Chinese and many many other brutal dictators around the world.We now know that a McCain staffer is/was the main lobbyist for Burma/Myanmar. We spoke with that brutal dictatorship..... So we now have to give pre-conditions to "speak" with Hamas?Do they have special cooties, that require especially harsh treatment? If your purpose was to stifle progress in the ME,on the one hand you`d build permanent housing on disputed Arab land.And on the other hand,tell the Arab people what to think and feel before they even get the chance to speak with us. If that`s not a recipe for failure and prolonged strife,I don`t know what is. One couldn`t design a better plan for deliberate continuation, than that. We now know that Bush ME policy doesn`t work.The iron hand has only made things worse,everywhere in the ME. Iraq is FUBR,Iran controls the hood,the other Arab leaders are either pissed at us or made weaker from associating with us/Bush. Oil`s through the roof and getting more expensive(threatening our economy)and Arab/Israeli relations have steadily gotten worse. Certainly,going around shooting people hasn`t worked out for us very well. We`ve lost power and prestige and don`t have the sway we once had to influence the ME, all because of a cowboy from Texas.Actually, an ivy leaguer from Connecticut,but who`s counting, right? [:D] Nope,McCain/Bush policy hasn`t worked out.In fact,it`s made things worse. It`s time for a new approach and fresh ideas from men willing to take chance for peace. I think the right is afraid Obama will be successful.

Alumbrado -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/17/2008 11:35:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 ...he's no outsider, he's a puppet with charisma. He's an empty suit, full of empty promises, none of which, the current congress will let him fulfill. Barack Hussein Obama is all shadow, no substance, and his political masters are pulling some mighty big strings to get him elected. There are only 3 people in the entire universe with a chance in hell of becoming the next US President, and they all fit the above descriptions.

Owner59 -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/17/2008 11:42:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: chickpea Yea, I think Obama being an outsider, will have a better perspective to attack the mess (plus he's smart, not that that's much of a compliment actually being smarter than bush). If you're in the middle of the mess (or caused it...cough bush cough bush), then that dust bunny you just swept off the floor will come flying back at your face. Obama, outsider? LMFAO... He's from CHICAGO, he's no outsider, he's a puppet with charisma. He's an empty suit, full of empty promises, none of which, the current congress will let him fulfill. Barack Hussein Obama is all shadow, no substance, and his political masters are pulling some mighty big strings to get him elected. You don`t like McCain.Or Hillary or Barack. Is there any current politician you do like? Who is worthy,... of subrob`s endorsement? And if they`re all so bad and you despise them all,why do you even comment?

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/18/2008 5:18:00 AM)
He would offer political power, as that is all he has. You like to just argue, dontcha? he would actually be the negotiator and nothing more, but he is offer appeasement. As far as dancing goes, you are not really my type so I don't dance. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Is Carter a former President? So he can be seen as a very influential figure in our country. Is Carter trying to calm the situation? I believe so. Is Carter trying to aquire peace by concessions? I believe so as well. I do believe that Carter fits what I have read on appeasement. Now do I believe he should? Why not? If someone can bring peace, let them. Once again how can a private citizen be an appeaser? Don't dance around, tell me exactly how a private citizen can enter into a binding treaty on behalf of a nation to give away half of another nation? What military force can he agree not to send into the field? Which treaties can he order a government to ignore?

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/18/2008 5:20:08 AM)
Even our best Presidents have had to be less than honest with the common man. It is a different level of knowledge to run a huge country like the US. Not to mention they are all politicians, and they need spin to keep their jobs. "The new boss is the same as the old boss." quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy What Obama said goes right to the heart of his campaign for the Presidency --- which is to install leadership which is not divisive and dishonest in how it conducts policy.

cloudboy -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/18/2008 7:47:08 AM)
quote: Right. And George W. Bush was going to be "a uniter, not a divider." The two aren't really comparable. Bush's campaign revealed his true nature v. McCain 2000. There is no such red flag about Obama.

TheHeretic -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/18/2008 7:54:30 AM)
Quite the shotgun reply there, O59. Interesting way to dodge the question of why you feel you have the right to tell other posters what position they must take, and what values they must defend.

DomKen -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/18/2008 8:01:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf He would offer political power, as that is all he has. You like to just argue, dontcha? he would actually be the negotiator and nothing more, but he is offer appeasement. As far as dancing goes, you are not really my type so I don't dance. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Is Carter a former President? So he can be seen as a very influential figure in our country. Is Carter trying to calm the situation? I believe so. Is Carter trying to aquire peace by concessions? I believe so as well. I do believe that Carter fits what I have read on appeasement. Now do I believe he should? Why not? If someone can bring peace, let them. Once again how can a private citizen be an appeaser? Don't dance around, tell me exactly how a private citizen can enter into a binding treaty on behalf of a nation to give away half of another nation? What military force can he agree not to send into the field? Which treaties can he order a government to ignore? ? So like so many you have no idea what appeasement means in regards to Chamberlain. Didn't it occur to you to look up what the historical facts were that you're trying to draw paralels to? A private citizen cannot be an appeaser. He cannot promise that his nation won't interfere in the seizure of the Sudetenland or its modern equivalent. Trying to make cheap political points using a buzz word like 'appeasement' is the equivalent of all that ignorant 'Democrat = communist' BS from 20 years ago. Bush was wrong and anyone who defends it is pathetic and should be ashamed.

TheHeretic -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/18/2008 9:12:54 AM)
If we limit use of the term 'appeasement' strictly to the definitions that would apply to Chamberlain, then you are quite correct, Ken. A purely private citizen couldn't do that. Carter may technically be a private citizen, but former Presidents remain lasting symbols of our gov't and country. They are easily dispatched as special representatives of our gov't. The first thing he did out of office was meet the returning hostages on behalf of the United States. Hell, we still pay for their Secret Service protection and, IIRC, their office/staff expenses. I don't have anybody hanging around on the taxpayer dollar to catch bullets for me and pay the internet bill, do you? Arafat walked away from the last good shot. Hamas will not acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist in peace. If a visit from Carter makes them think we might be ok with that, then I think trying to soothe tension by instilling false hope would qualify under a broader definition of appeasement.

DomKen -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/18/2008 10:23:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic If we limit use of the term 'appeasement' strictly to the definitions that would apply to Chamberlain, then you are quite correct, Ken. A purely private citizen couldn't do that. Carter may technically be a private citizen, but former Presidents remain lasting symbols of our gov't and country. They are easily dispatched as special representatives of our gov't. The first thing he did out of office was meet the returning hostages on behalf of the United States. Hell, we still pay for their Secret Service protection and, IIRC, their office/staff expenses. I don't have anybody hanging around on the taxpayer dollar to catch bullets for me and pay the internet bill, do you? Arafat walked away from the last good shot. Hamas will not acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist in peace. If a visit from Carter makes them think we might be ok with that, then I think trying to soothe tension by instilling false hope would qualify under a broader definition of appeasement. But GWB wasn't using a broader definition. He specifically refered to WWII and appeasement. So claiming this obvious attack on Obama was some sort of comment on Carter is obfuscation trying to make a it less awful that a sitting president gave a political speech while overseas. Can you imagine the furor that would have ensued if Clinton had slammed GWB in front of the Knesset in 2000?

pahunkboy -> RE: Obama is so on target with what's wrong with this country (5/18/2008 11:03:39 AM)
Prescott Bush made alot of money off the NAZIs, you could call it blood money.

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