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Ownership, really? - 5/18/2008 5:48:01 AM   
LeatherSlaveBoy3


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I am currently an unowned slave but a good slave friend of mine has just been collared and moved in with his Domme. He has been with her for around two years and decided to make the move. They were very upfront about everything and at first all seemed fine. They even signed a contract to establish how everything would go. Now it seems the owner wants the rules to change and the slave is does not want to lose her so like a fool he is going along with everything she says. He has quit his job and stays at her feet 24/7 to serve her. I know alot of people would love this scenario but we all have vanilla issues to deal with. He gave up his job and everything he owned to this woman. Maybe I am naive but is this normal when you serve as a full time slave. I have been in this type of relationship before and granted it was strict protocol at all times but I still had a vanilla world of my own. This just seems a bit much too me but my friend claims he is content with it. I mean how much control should you give an owner of your vanilla life. We all, for the mostpart, have jobs, families, and things outside of the bdsm world that we must address. Is it right to just forget all that? I am asking because I honestly am not sure. I have been seeking this same type of ownership he has found but if it entails giving up "everything" I am not sure if I am ready.
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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/18/2008 5:58:46 AM   
MladyHathor


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His relationship with his Domina is not your concern--there appear to be things there that are hard limits for you--as such, you have every right to define them---if for some reason the game changes, you also have the right to ask for renegotiation, if it doesn't happen or the decisions are not what you seek, you also have the right to leave--

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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/18/2008 6:35:30 AM   
thetammyjo


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I would only be wary if he is not allowed to have contact with his previous friends and family or that is seriously curtailed. That's one of the classic signs of an abuser. Yes, abusers do indeed masquerade as kinky folks from time to time.

If you are in contact with him, let him know you have concerns ONCE. If he says everything is fine and that he's happy, let him know you are his friend and there for him. If you keep telling him how you feel you run the risk of several unhappy reactions.

First, loss of friendship. If he is fine and happy, you will annoy him and quite possibly push him away.

Second, if he is being abused, pushing him is not going to help because part of being abused is aiding in your abuse through denial. The more he is confronted, the more he may make excuses.

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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/18/2008 6:38:35 AM   
Sylverdawn


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I would say if he says he content then other than saying "hey bud Im always here" there is little more you can do. Im sure if as you say they have been as responsible as you indicate then all those vanilla life issue have been dealt with; ie health insurance, life insurance, retirement incomes,  wills and exit plans.  Only you can decide for you what is right and only he can do so for himself. Good luck with your journey

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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/18/2008 6:49:01 AM   
LeatherSlaveBoy3


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Thank you for the insight and great replys I am his friend and will be there for him if need be. I am glad he is happy and hope he enjoys life with his Domme.

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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/18/2008 6:53:43 AM   
TishAddams


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Let him serve and live his bdsm as he understands it.
What's good for him is not what's good for you.
For me, what you wrote sounds normal for a good 24/7 relations.
He's an adult and if he's making a mistake, he'll learn for the next time (or not).
As thetammyjo said, criticism will push him away.
If you're his friend, accept and respect his way of life.



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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/18/2008 6:54:17 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


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whatever that was agreed between her and him is none of your concern unless he's being abused but it appears he's not.  if giving up everything for his mistress makes your friend content, then be happy as his friend and stop inserting (and asserting) yourself into this relationship.

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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/18/2008 10:57:55 AM   
undergroundsea


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Some people wish for such a life and if that is the case, more power to him.

What makes me wonder about the situation is that the rules were changed, which is known to happen as a relationship progresses. How I feel about this change depends on how much is he accepting the change (agreeing to give up his job and transfer assets) because he wants to and for her sake, and how much is he accepting the change because he does not think he can find another Fm relationship and does not wish to be alone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
I would only be wary if he is not allowed to have contact with his previous friends and family or that is seriously curtailed. That's one of the classic signs of an abuser.


I agree this point is important. Also, I think a responsible and healthy ownership that asks a sub to give up everything gives thought to what would happen if an unforeseen accident was to occur.

Cheers,

Sea.

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 5/18/2008 11:02:03 AM >

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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/18/2008 11:24:27 AM   
YourhandMyAss


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I would clarify on that, and only be alarmed if his family and friends are not healthy contacts, because I fully support a dominant saying hey these people are not healthy, please stay away from them.* if infact they are indeed unhealthy to the person or the relationship an the sub is willing to go along*

Infact my Daddy  dom has told me I am not allowed to go see my brother in luisianna alone ever again, cause my brother threatend to throw me out when we had an argument he started an picked fights all week and treated me like shit and I did call home in tears several times. Not that I would go alone again, fool me once and all, but still he has declared going alone offlimits and I agree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I would only be wary if he is not allowed to have contact with his previous friends and family or that is seriously curtailed. That's one of the classic signs of an abuser. Yes, abusers do indeed masquerade as kinky folks from time to time.


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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/18/2008 1:48:51 PM   
MamaDomme1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherSlaveBoy3
my friend claims he is content with it. .


That's all that matters.  Your friend is content with the current relationship situation, and it is *his* relationship, not yours.

This is clearly something you feel that you aren't ready for, so my advice is for you to avoid such situation.

Your friend is allowed contact with you-- hopefully he also has contact with family and other friends-- if it becomes an abusive situation rather than one that is BDSM, then you can try to help him get out of it.

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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/19/2008 3:00:23 AM   
MaamJay


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I agree with the other posters here. If he's happy, fine, just assure him you are his friend as others have suggested. And I also agree that generally abusers separate people from healthy contacts and that is a red flag, but agree that there might be unhealthy contacts from whom a Dominant will rightfully separate their sub for their own protection. If he is still able to continue contact with you as a friend ... don't become an unhealthy contact by being too pushy!

It's quite possible for relationships to evolve and the rules change. And it can be both challenging and liberating. There would be many who would say i was mad as when i left the ex, i took the money i was owed and gave it to Master to buy this house in His name. That was a decision that was scary yes ... but He and i have been together 24/7 since 2004 and i knew that i trusted Him sufficiently. That's not to say i didn't have a few collywobbles because i did ... but that i wanted to overcome them. And i have. There were some good practical reasons for enacting that decision and i don't regret it at all. Was it an essential to this relationship that this development occur? No it wasn't. It was something Master and i negotiated ... and bear in mind, He had to be as prepared to take on this additional responsibility as i had to be to yield it. And i would add that He and i have also taken care of the other important life decisions, W/we have health insurance, wills etc etc. In O/our case, W/we are both trying to work enough to make a living, there's not the luxury of one supporting the other!

In your friend's case, they have known each other a good while. Presumably She can afford to keep him like this ... or maybe Her income is so much better than he could make? In which case, it could make sense for him to be a house husband and support Her income-earning efforts. Let's face it, generations of vanilla women were in the same situation as your friend and that didn't seem so odd at the time. Perhaps the only additional thing I would mention to him is whether those other provisions have been taken care of, and have they some sort of contingency plan if the relationship should end? That has to cater for more than a decision to end it, it needs to cope with a sudden and unpredicted ending too. If he can assure you of that, I'd stop worrying.

As to you ... you negotiate a relationship that meets your limits. And I would never suggest someone leap right in to the sort of system your friend has anyway, start slowly, yield control more gradually when it is right for both Dominant and submissive. Maybe one day it will be right for you too or maybe it won't  ... keep an open mind but an educated one!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/19/2008 3:39:21 AM   
MsStarlett


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Why does this bother anyone?  Since the 1950's mainstream society has told us that men should expect their wives to leave thier homes, relocate whenever his job says to, quit thier day jobs, turn over any financial assests, live on an allowance and stay home playing June Clever.  If  this Domme is finanically able to keep a 'little wife' at home and isn't cutting off his contact with the rest of the world... why would anyone care?

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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/19/2008 5:51:14 AM   
MasterFireMaam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherSlaveBoy3

Now it seems the owner wants the rules to change and the slave is does not want to lose her so like a fool he is going along with everything she says.

Go along with is because he doesn't want to loose her isn't the healthiest reason to do it, in my opinion.

quote:

He has quit his job and stays at her feet 24/7 to serve her. I know alot of people would love this scenario but we all have vanilla issues to deal with. He gave up his job and everything he owned to this woman. Maybe I am naive but is this normal when you serve as a full time slave. I have been in this type of relationship before and granted it was strict protocol at all times but I still had a vanilla world of my own.

This is a valid way to lead a relationship such as this, if this is the way they have chosen. It sounds like it may not be valid for you and so you don't understand why your friend would do this. But, I know of several relationships like this.

quote:

This just seems a bit much too me but my friend claims he is content with it.

Well then, that's what you have to deal with. Your friend wants to do it differently than you do.

quote:

I mean how much control should you give an owner of your vanilla life. We all, for the mostpart, have jobs, families, and things outside of the bdsm world that we must address. Is it right to just forget all that?

For me, the deciding factor about "is it right" would be the intent behind why it's being done. If he feels truly called to do this, then that is a positive intent that he's honoring. If he's doing it to "keep" a partner or to run away from his life, that's a negative intent and isn't a healthy thing to do. But, like you can only decide for yourself, he can only decide for himself.

quote:

I am asking because I honestly am not sure. I have been seeking this same type of ownership he has found but if it entails giving up "everything" I am not sure if I am ready.

I think that if you are capable of setting and maintaining your boundaries, you'll do fine. Many of these fears will be non-issues when you find someone who is a good match for you because they will feel the same as you do.

Master Fire


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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/19/2008 6:59:49 AM   
Madame4a


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I certainly can understand your caution.. or maybe its almost alarm... what bothers me is that the rules were changed and you said he went along with it.  Did he say he didn't want to or that he was having trouble with going along with the change? 

Relationships change.  This would not be for me and if a friend came to me with this, I might, depending on how close they were first say "are you out of your mind?" and then, I'd listen and trust my friend and support once my friend said they were not.  Unfortunately, I can't apply my own values etc to another's life.

Ultimately, if it ends badly, you MUST be there to pick up the pieces without recriminations... do that, and you will b a true friend....

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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/19/2008 1:31:03 PM   
BlackPhx


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Relationships can change and grow and change again as they need to, to suit those involved in them. If your friends domina has the wherewithall to support the both of them and have him as a live in slave 24/7 without an outside job, and that is right for him and his needs, then there is nothing wrong with it. Afterall, if you stop and think about it, not one person would be surprised if it was a Female Submissive in the same situation. Often we liquidate and pare out a lot of our belongings when we merge our household with our Masters or Mistress's. We may give up jobs, move across country, sell homes and outside of reminding them to be careful and sure when they do this, rarely raise warning flags.

Do not judge him for finding what is right for them both. Yes rules may have changed, but they may have changed only as they began to define their relationship outside of the casual. Remain his friend and in contact. Do not question, but let him know you are there to listen without judgement. You can ask about the changing situation but my advice would be to do it as someone eager to learn more about PE/TPE/EPE (all power exchange formats), from someone who is living his dream and really listen. If he is having a problem he will most likely talk about it.

Remember unless one is chained and locked behind bars, one can generally walk away, even if you have to leave everything behind and start over.

Good luck and you seem to be a good friend..

Poenkitten AKA MC

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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/23/2008 6:51:42 PM   
MistressScarlot


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I own a slave at this level, though I do have him work outside of the home as well. However, there have been periods that I have also had him leave his job and just "work" for me. It just depends on what my own needs are at any given time, and yes, he is mine to use as I see fit. he has given up all his worldly goods to me. he has been with me for 11 years.

We don't have much separation of vanilla and D/s, as far as worlds go. I mean, if we spend time with my family, /they/ don't know he's my slave, but they certainly watch him serve me and run after my needs, much as he does when we are at home alone. When we are in the general public, most people couldn't tell /what/ he might be to me, which is as I like it.

It is as real as you make it. Perhaps someday you yourself will meet a Domme who inspires this level of service, trust, and devotion from you. Saying She doesn't have the right to use him.... is to also imply /that it's not real/. That D/s reality stops /just short/ of being real... that there is some kind of line between the real (vanilla) world and the unreal (D/s) world.  If you decide that D/s is not real, and the vanilla world is, you're setting your own limits of what you're willing to experience.....which is perfectly fine too.
For you.
:)



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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/24/2008 8:11:26 AM   
GoddessTeaze


Posts: 1125
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From: The Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherSlaveBoy3

I am currently an unowned slave but a good slave friend of mine has just been collared and moved in with his Domme. He has been with her for around two years and decided to make the move. They were very upfront about everything and at first all seemed fine. They even signed a contract to establish how everything would go. Now it seems the owner wants the rules to change and the slave is does not want to lose her so like a fool he is going along with everything she says. He has quit his job and stays at her feet 24/7 to serve her. I know alot of people would love this scenario but we all have vanilla issues to deal with. He gave up his job and everything he owned to this woman. Maybe I am naive but is this normal when you serve as a full time slave. I have been in this type of relationship before and granted it was strict protocol at all times but I still had a vanilla world of my own. This just seems a bit much too me but my friend claims he is content with it. I mean how much control should you give an owner of your vanilla life. We all, for the mostpart, have jobs, families, and things outside of the bdsm world that we must address. Is it right to just forget all that? I am asking because I honestly am not sure. I have been seeking this same type of ownership he has found but if it entails giving up "everything" I am not sure if I am ready.

Well leatherslaveboy,
I understand your concern very well.
I asume your friend is a mature guy, and he steps in this with his eyes open.

It's his life & desision, and ofcourse as long all goes well there is nothing really wrong, but when it doesn't work out, then shit will hit the fan.
Apparently he is willing to take the risk, even with the speed change once he moved in.

you can only learn what you want and not want from such leatherslaveboy, each and everyone has their own way to learn and grow, what is fine for him, apparently isn't your thing.

Which is totally fine.

Noone is the same!

I hope it works out for Tthem,
and you goodluck in your own search.

GoddezzT`


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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/24/2008 8:47:37 AM   
LadyJeelys


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First on your friend....I take a little different view. You mentioned that he agreed because he doesn't want to loose her. If he is the one who expressed this concern, I would be very concerned that he is being emotionally manipulated. I don't think that's ok. I don't think its safe or sane or consentual for a person-slave or Dominant-to give everything they own to another person or give up the foundations of independence. As a Dominant, I would NEVER allow this for any pet and I have questioned it when having discussions with other Domiants. First, relationships often falter. The bloom fades and if you've got nothing to fall back on, you can really be stuck. Next, bad things happen. What happens after he's turned over everything to her, and she gets hit by a bus. I would have hoped that as a society, we'd learned from the experienc of traditional wives the dangers of this kind of dependence. I've dealt with too many ladies whose husbands died unexpectedly---women without bank accounts, without investments, etc. Some didn't even have access to any spending money. That doesn't even address the women who were dumped and hubby (who had everything) walked out with everything. Personally, I don't think we as a society should say its ok--we should say this isn't a good idea.

But in response to what sounds like your underlying question---no, this isn't typical or required for a 24/7 slave relationship. Pffft, I am a terrible money manager. I definitely don't want control of Secondary's money. In fact, when he finally finishes uni and gets his bottom in my cage, he'll have to take care of the money. I'd rather not be bothered. But he will also have a job, have friends, have contact with his family, my family and any other family we can find. He's whole person--and I like that whole person. I don't want to limit his horizons, but to expand them in our relationship.

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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/24/2008 9:24:43 AM   
GoddessTeaze


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From: The Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyJeelys

First on your friend....I take a little different view. You mentioned that he agreed because he doesn't want to loose her. If he is the one who expressed this concern, I would be very concerned that he is being emotionally manipulated. I don't think that's ok. I don't think its safe or sane or consentual for a person-slave or Dominant-to give everything they own to another person or give up the foundations of independence. As a Dominant, I would NEVER allow this for any pet and I have questioned it when having discussions with other Domiants. First, relationships often falter. The bloom fades and if you've got nothing to fall back on, you can really be stuck. Next, bad things happen. What happens after he's turned over everything to her, and she gets hit by a bus. I would have hoped that as a society, we'd learned from the experienc of traditional wives the dangers of this kind of dependence. I've dealt with too many ladies whose husbands died unexpectedly---women without bank accounts, without investments, etc. Some didn't even have access to any spending money. That doesn't even address the women who were dumped and hubby (who had everything) walked out with everything. Personally, I don't think we as a society should say its ok--we should say this isn't a good idea.

But in response to what sounds like your underlying question---no, this isn't typical or required for a 24/7 slave relationship. Pffft, I am a terrible money manager. I definitely don't want control of Secondary's money. In fact, when he finally finishes uni and gets his bottom in my cage, he'll have to take care of the money. I'd rather not be bothered. But he will also have a job, have friends, have contact with his family, my family and any other family we can find. He's whole person--and I like that whole person. I don't want to limit his horizons, but to expand them in our relationship.



GoddezzT`


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RE: Ownership, really? - 5/24/2008 11:50:11 AM   
pixelslave


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyJeelys

First on your friend....I take a little different view. You mentioned that he agreed because he doesn't want to loose her. If he is the one who expressed this concern, I would be very concerned that he is being emotionally manipulated. I don't think that's ok. I don't think its safe or sane or consentual for a person-slave or Dominant-to give everything they own to another person or give up the foundations of independence. As a Dominant, I would NEVER allow this for any pet and I have questioned it when having discussions with other Domiants. First, relationships often falter. The bloom fades and if you've got nothing to fall back on, you can really be stuck. Next, bad things happen. What happens after he's turned over everything to her, and she gets hit by a bus. I would have hoped that as a society, we'd learned from the experienc of traditional wives the dangers of this kind of dependence.



I very much agree with what you've said LadyJeelys!  When my divorce with my ex-wife/former-mistress began, I wasn't working because she didn't want me to work.  When she became abusive, that made it very difficult for me to leave and to support myself.  She had all the resources she needed to hire the most expensive law firm in town to make my life miserable and to blow all of what we'd accumulated over the years on legal fees or pretty much however she wanted.  I had to fight very hard just to be able to maintain reasonable visitation with my children. 
 
I feel as though I made a mistake in not reopening my business following my recovery from an auto accident as soon as I felt I was ready; choosing to do as she wished instead.  Not only was I not very happy doing what she wanted of me, I wasn't in a sound position financially to live on my own at the time I moved out, and still can't say I'm doing much more than getting by following the divorce.  She took full advantage of it throughout the process using the legal system to try and break me.  The legal system here looks at men who aren't working in a very negative manner as they expect them to be the breadwinners.  In our community, it's easy for a woman to paint a man as a "layabout" during a divorce if he's not working.  She even outed me to a court psych, acting as though she were a victim of my "perversions" instead of the Dominant that she actually is.
 

quote:


I've dealt with too many ladies whose husbands died unexpectedly---women without bank accounts, without investments, etc. Some didn't even have access to any spending money. That doesn't even address the women who were dumped and hubby (who had everything) walked out with everything. Personally, I don't think we as a society should say its ok--we should say this isn't a good idea.



Agreed!  Provisions for the sub/slave's health care and future financial well being are extremely important.  I hope the OP's friend has been covered in some manner.


quote:


But in response to what sounds like your underlying question---no, this isn't typical or required for a 24/7 slave relationship. Pffft, I am a terrible money manager. I definitely don't want control of Secondary's money. In fact, when he finally finishes uni and gets his bottom in my cage, he'll have to take care of the money. I'd rather not be bothered. But he will also have a job, have friends, have contact with his family, my family and any other family we can find. He's whole person--and I like that whole person. I don't want to limit his horizons, but to expand them in our relationship.


I'd been isolated by my ex-wife/former-mistress and not permitted to participate in groups in the local community and thus couldn't make friend with whom I could relate.  Because of the auto accident I'd had, I also hadn't been able to get out a lot and make hardly any vanilla friends either.  We'd just moved here a month and a half before I had the auto accident, so I had no history to build on.  All the people I knew to any extent were limited to the medical professionals that I'd been dealing with; not people whom one can use for personal references. 
 
The first thing she did after I moved out, was circle up all the neighbors and the parents of the kids' friends and their teachers so that I had no one who would speak for me as being a good person or who was willing to still be any kind of a friend.  I'd essentially been isolated to begin with and was now totally cut off.  When I needed references, I didn't have any as the people I knew refused as she'd already cut them off from being available to me.
 
I share this because I hope this never happens to someone else like the OP's friend whom it sounds as though might be setting himself up to be in an ideal position for something similar to occur. 
 
The only saving grace for me was that I had control of funds that I could withdraw to take with me since I managed our investments.  Access to what I hadn't withdrawn was quickly cut off and put in escrow for use only for certain purposes as soon as we got to court, but at least the money was still there for me to draw from for my legal fees and protected to some extent so I wasn't initially penniless.  Sadly, it doesn't sound as though the OP's friend will be in anything close to that position I was able to put myself in.
 
 - pixel
 
 
 
Wyatt's been missing 5 weeks as of today.


_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to LadyJeelys)
Profile   Post #: 20
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