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RE: "let's be Serious" - 5/20/2008 2:10:40 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MusicalBoredom

I agree with what most have said in that we need an election based on issues and not rhetoric (I think I said that in a post before).  I also think that the problem isn't all in the candidates' court.  The major problem is us.  Getting elected is a sales job.  Even if you have perfect ideals, you do what you have to do in order to get elected so that can can persue your ideals.  Most of the time, people elect oficals based on some garbage reason so the candidates go for sound bites that get talked about around the water cooler.  The PR and advertising firms then advise the candidtates on what needs to happen in order for them to be elected -- the do what we want them to do in order to get elected.


Sales,...good analogy.

Imagine though,if Tide and Ivory Snow started a whisper campaign about Wisk and Mr.Clean,saying they were radial wash products and couldn`t be trusted.

Or that they not only did a poor job of washing,but using those products meant you were in league with terrorist.

Ugly...


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/20/2008 2:14:19 PM >

(in reply to MusicalBoredom)
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RE: "let's be Serious" - 5/20/2008 2:31:08 PM   
MusicalBoredom


Posts: 620
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Louisiana/New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: MusicalBoredom

I agree with what most have said in that we need an election based on issues and not rhetoric (I think I said that in a post before).  I also think that the problem isn't all in the candidates' court.  The major problem is us.  Getting elected is a sales job.  Even if you have perfect ideals, you do what you have to do in order to get elected so that can can persue your ideals.  Most of the time, people elect oficals based on some garbage reason so the candidates go for sound bites that get talked about around the water cooler.  The PR and advertising firms then advise the candidtates on what needs to happen in order for them to be elected -- the do what we want them to do in order to get elected.


Sales,...good analogy.

Imagine though,if Tide and Ivory Snow started a whisper campaign about Wisk and Mr.Clean,saying they were radial wash products and couldn`t be trusted.

Or that they not only did a poor job of washing,but using those products meant you were in league with terrorist.

Ugly...



I agree completely.  We (the consumers) wouldn't stand for it.  But since that would mean they had an ineffective ad campaign and the agency would likely be fired and a new strategy developed.  I also agree in being rather disgusted with politics today I just have to hold us, as voters,  partially responsible.

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: "let's be Serious" - 5/20/2008 2:36:07 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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 My opinion,Obama and McCain attempted and for the most part,succeeded in running positive campaigns.

We`ll see who blinks 1st and goes negative the summer and fall.

(in reply to MusicalBoredom)
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RE: "let's be Serious" - 5/20/2008 2:39:20 PM   
MusicalBoredom


Posts: 620
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From: Louisiana/New York
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I agree Owner, I think they did as well.  It's why I lost respect for the others.

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RE: "let's be Serious" - 5/20/2008 2:57:06 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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http://gizmodo.com/391794/flying-rc-penis-disrupts-garry-kasparov-speech    hmm- a flying penis disrupts speech.

how uncanny.   ;-0

(in reply to MusicalBoredom)
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RE: "let's be Serious" - 5/20/2008 3:18:15 PM   
Termyn8or


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Not reality again. Well it was bound to come up. What about this reality ? -

"The Houston Chronicle did a long takeout on Sunday on the suicide in March 2007 of an Army recruiting sergeant, Nils Aron Andersson — just one day after his marriage to Carry Walton. Sgt. Andersson, 25, had spoken of the many horrors that he had encountered in Iraq and was deeply depressed. He shot himself while sitting in his pickup in a parking garage. Distraught, Ms. Walton bought a 9-millimeter handgun at a sporting goods store the next day and killed herself."

You are still falling into it. I say take the candidates, all of them and tie them to chairs in a room, with the cameras rolling, let me give you a small sample of the kind of questions I would ask.

1. How soon are we going to get the hell out of Iraq, and how much you figure it is going to cost us to RESTORE their infrastructure so they can again live like human beings so we can worry about their and other Arabs' animosity a bit less ?

2. How are you going to change trade practices so that we again are a country with a viable REAL economy in which we produce goods, not just services. What are you going to do to make the US an attractive environment for companies that actually produce something other than bombs and paper clips ?

3. What are you going to do when China dumps her Tbills. The dollar, which is worth about a nickel now will probably fall to about a penny. All of people's saving are wiped out, what are you going to do in the way of relief ?

4. What are you going to do to get back the fucking over a hundred bucks a barrell the people have been shysted out of for the oil we fought and conquered. The law, as proscribed in the Trading with the enemy act specifically declares this oil to belong to the victor, which is our government. By that virtue the People own it. So who did we pay all that money to and how do we get it back ?

5. What are you going to do about the exceedingly large number of non violent offenders being housed in prisons all over this country ? At taxpayer expense I might add. They should be out and working unless their habit is so bad as to prevent it. Which brings us to another point, where would they work ?

6. If you were offered a deal whereby you never had money in your life, that you give away all you have and never recieve another dime, but all your needs are fullfilled by the people, would you go for it ? Remember you and your money are parted forever, but you will never have to work. Go to any store, it is payed for. Even if you want pot, buy the guy a friggin beef tenderloin for a half ounce. But you are forever forbidden to touch money or any instrument thereof (like a check) ever again. Ever. Would you take the deal ? (of course there would be limits)

7. How long before you start closing military bases and stop foreign aid ?

Now understand #7 here. Iraq not withstanding we have military bases all over the place, over 130 of them. This is not our fucking job. If our puppet government can't defend themselves against their subjects I guess we just have to build them sturdier in the future.

And getting rid of foreign aid ? You know who is going to bitch the loudest, and let me tell you something, they have quite a bit of influence over world banking affairs. And that's not all, just China could about wreck us without their help. We are going to be in a very bad situation indeed. If you think it is bad now, just wait. It is going to happen, it has to happen. The US is going into default no matter what.

Policies have destroyed our ability to recover, or even be a successful isolationist country. We cannot even feed ourselves anymore. And people won't stop fucking having kids.

But the people who caused this will sit comfortably in their ivory towers, musing whether to pick up more euros vs the yuan or the pound. We will get to the point where is takes a wheelbarrel full of money to buy a postage stamp.

And you know what happened last time. A racist, secular but populist leader emerged, but made promises, and the thing is he kept them. But he wasn't leading a melting pot, so therefore whoever has the majority and the most balls will prevail. There will be a period of intercene strife. After which we will be more militant than ever.

Do you want that future for your children or the children of your friends ?

I have an idea, I'll be back.

T


(in reply to MusicalBoredom)
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RE: "let's be Serious" - 5/20/2008 3:35:27 PM   
cjan


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Termyn8or, the paragraph you cherry picked and quoted out of context was part of a larger concern of the article's author about what we are going to do re our responsibilities to veterans and the continued insanity of sending them to Irag for 3 and 4 tours of duty with the resultant effect that is having on our military and our ability to deal with other threats. Imo, a legitimate issue in this election year and indeed, anytime.

As far as your other questions are concerned, I agree with you that they are important, substantive issues that need to be debated amongst the candidates. I'm just wondering how we can get the candidates to address these issues. I don't think tying them to chairs is gonna work, as much as I would like to do that.

I wonder what pressure we can put on the press to do their jobs and ask these questions and demand answers. Where are the journalists like Dan Rather ( yes he had his flaws ) and others who had the balls to stand up and ask a sitting president tough questions and demand that they answer them ?


_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: "let's be Serious" - 5/20/2008 4:12:48 PM   
MusicalBoredom


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Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Louisiana/New York
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I agree with T regarding the more serious questions.  I also think it will be up our leaders to actually lead.  I would like for them to tell us the problem with our own personal economic choices and how it's our responsibility to straighten things out.  I would love for someone to stand up and say "you don't all have to have 3 big screen TVs."  To tell us that it's ok to be working class and that if we bought less but paid a little more for American goods then we would all be better off.  I would love to hear that as investors or corporate executives we should care more about long term goals and financial position rather simply worrying about this quarters earnings and stock price.  While this may sound like I'm being funny, I'm not -- I'm serious about that.

I want our leaders to fix things they broke (Iraq being one of them in my opinion) and lead us into fixing the things that we broke.  I want them to tell us the truth and not sugarcoat it.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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