RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor

RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

Archer -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 5:50:01 AM)
At the time I left TX the law said "Traveling" two or more counties away from your home, was a legal defense to carrying a concealed weapon. (Special note here a legal defense to the charge is not the same as beng legal, bt you need a lawyer to define the difference) That didnt mean only in your car but also on your person. On the idea of TX cops going to check your ID, most of the cops I knew said flat out, you might beat the charge, but you can't beat the ride. They can almost every time find something, an obscure city ordinance to arrest you for, that includes issueing you a ticket for littering, jaywalking, broken tail light, failure to maintain lane, or any other sort of your word against theirs charge. But they do have to have some offense listed in addition to failure to identify. The sex toy law was just recently struck down by an appeals court. And it was not illegal to own more than five, owning more than five made you a "distributor" and as such infered that you intended to sell them which was illegal until the recent court ruling. The United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, Reliable Consultants Inc. and PHE Inc. v. Earle, February 12, 2008.

Irishknight -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 7:21:54 AM)
Don't forget that there is also a false arrest charge that they have to remember. Most cops are not stupid enough to trump a charge because you don't have an ID. A DUMB lawyer will eat their lunch in court over something like that. I don't know anyone who looks for dumb lawyers when they go to court so most cops are a bit smarter than that. And, I'll have to look up failure to identify, but I do believe that requires a refusal to tell them who you are not provide a picture ID. I can identify and cooperate fully without an ID when I walk to the store. We are nowhere near living in a police state like so many seem to think.

Alumbrado -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 8:14:45 AM)
The elements of a 'Failure to identify' charge have already been posted. There has to be a good and seperate reason for the police to want information, along with a refusal or a presentation of false information.(Some folks might want to look up mens rea as well.) The blanket statement that it is illegal to ever be without an ID card is just plain not true. In today's era of tiny and ever present cameras, any cop who pulls the stuff that DA is afraid of, runs a huge chance of losing a variety of criminal charges and expensive lawsuits when the video gets shown in court. That isn't going to put an end to police abuse, but as it becomes more risky and potentially expensive, it will change some of the factors feeding into it...just as dashmounted cruiser cameras have.

orfunboi -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 9:39:32 AM)
You never answered the question.... "All in all, I have to wonder also, why it is considered so unfair to request ID to vote? I did think it was cute when you started with "Not to add facts to the jaded and apathetic discourse.... " Nice little jab, did it make you feel good?

orfunboi -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 9:46:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator Homeless people dont need to vote - they dont have a residence in the precinct / district / etc... RESIDENCY is a requirement for voting. Obviously I dont want homeless people choosing my mayor and city council cause they happened to be sleeping on a bench in my town on election day... Working familes needed to produce ID to get the job... Wrong. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781452.html The great majority of states have no durational residency requirements. Since when did the Constitution introduce the idea that voting rights were to be means tested? I leave the rest of your post to the discretion of others. from the above article. "Note, for all states, in order to register to vote, an applicant must be a U.S. citizen, a legal resident of the state, and 18 years old on or before election day."

Alumbrado -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 9:58:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: orfunboi "Note, for all states, in order to register to vote, an applicant must be a U.S. citizen, a legal resident of the state, and 18 years old on or before election day." And where does it say anything about having to have a lease or a mortgage to meet the legal definition of reside? Homeless people are residents by dint of their physical presence, and their intent to not be a resident of somewhere else. People who travel every day of their lives are residents of someplace by declaring their intent for that to be their home of record. You can't stop the homeless, or the poor, and so forth from voting. You can eneact measure to stop those trying to commit voter fraud.

Owner59 -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 10:09:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: orfunboi You never answered the question.... "All in all, I have to wonder also, why it is considered so unfair to request ID to vote? I did think it was cute when you started with "Not to add facts to the jaded and apathetic discourse.... " Nice little jab, did it make you feel good? Nothing unfair about requesting. Not letting someone vote because they don`t have a "state issued" photo ID,is unfair. Look folks,there seems to be a witting or un-witting regression here. Voting is our right,our birthright and part of what makes up our liberties and freedoms. It was there and established long before any of us breathed air. It`s up to those opposing any of those liberties to explain why they should be restricted. The burden of proof should be on the anti-libertarians when a freedom or right is restricted or changed. Not the other way around. The freedoms came 1st.If you`re going to fuck with that,you`d better have a compelling reason for the freedoms or rights to be diminished.Otherwise,don`t fuck with peoples rights. This is Liberty 101.I`m surprised that some people are being so obtuse. Again,we should be doing everything we can to make it easier and simpler to vote,not the opposite.

Alumbrado -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 10:11:05 AM)
I doubt if anyone here is obtuse enough to fall for your sophistry that the right to vote means that there is no right to prevent voter fraud.

orfunboi -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 10:11:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: ORIGINAL: orfunboi "Note, for all states, in order to register to vote, an applicant must be a U.S. citizen, a legal resident of the state, and 18 years old on or before election day." And where does it say anything about having to have a lease or a mortgage to meet the legal definition of reside? Where in my post did I mention leases or mortgages? Homeless people are residents by dint of their physical presence, and their intent to not be a resident of somewhere else. Uh, yea, whatever.....so if I show up in your basement and intend to not go away, that makes me a legal resident of you house. People who travel every day of their lives are residents of someplace by declaring their intent for that to be their home of record. Yes, you can usually tell where, by looking at their ID. You can't stop the homeless, or the poor, and so forth from voting. Sure they can vote, right after they show their ID You can eneact measure to stop those trying to commit voter fraud.

Alumbrado -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 10:14:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: orfunboi Save the word games... you tried to equate homelessness with not being a legal resident for voting purposes... And you can pour all the syrup you want on that pile, it still isn't going to turn it into pancakes.... there is no legal mandate that 'the homeless' cannot vote, no matter how badly you may want to stop them.

kittinSol -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 10:17:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado You can't stop the homeless, or the poor, and so forth from voting. They can't, but I'm seeing some admission that that's what some people would be hoping to be able to do.

Alumbrado -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 10:23:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado You can't stop the homeless, or the poor, and so forth from voting. They can't, but I'm seeing some admission that that's what some people would be hoping to be able to do. Of course some people would hope to do that... and some people would hope to repeat the old tradition of winning with thousands of dead people's votes counted. In between, there needs to be a reasonable means of controlling voter fraud without adding an unreasonable burden to voters who don't fit into mainstream categories of income, or housing. Showing some form of ID to vote has been established as a Constitutionally reasonable means by the Court. I'm not seeing too many alternate suggestion as to how voter fraud can be prevented without it.

Owner59 -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 10:43:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado You can't stop the homeless, or the poor, and so forth from voting. They can't, but I'm seeing some admission that that's what some people would be hoping to be able to do. What get`s me is the smarmy way the anti-voter crowd vales their shenanigans by trying to look/seem like do-gooders doing good things. They remind me of that murdering Union soldier that hunted Josey Wales,in "The Outlaw Josey Wales". Just after murdering a group of surrendering Confederate soldiers,the Union soldier says to their CO(who had just given them up,but wanted no other part)"Do`n right ain`t got no end". It`s a fucking republican sham.No where near good, helpful or right. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZZhxW5ym68&feature=related The Missouri Boat Ride

kittinSol -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 11:01:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado Showing some form of ID to vote has been established as a Constitutionally reasonable means by the Court. I'm not seeing too many alternate suggestion as to how voter fraud can be prevented without it. You may be right. Which brings us back to the idea of a standardised form of ID and the constitutional consequences this may have. All you guys need is a strong, central federal government that keeps a keen eye on its citizens by issuing them with the same form of identification from birth, renewable say, every ten years from the onset of majority [:D] . With fingerprints, DNA encoding, SSN and medical conditions. sigh PS: holy shit... hatemail alert. Okay, I hasten to add the above was written as a joke [:(] .

DomAviator -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 11:07:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Archer At the time I left TX the law said "Traveling" two or more counties away from your home, was a legal defense to carrying a concealed weapon. (Special note here a legal defense to the charge is not the same as beng legal, bt you need a lawyer to define the difference) That didnt mean only in your car but also on your person. On the idea of TX cops going to check your ID, most of the cops I knew said flat out, you might beat the charge, but you can't beat the ride. They can almost every time find something, an obscure city ordinance to arrest you for, that includes issueing you a ticket for littering, jaywalking, broken tail light, failure to maintain lane, or any other sort of your word against theirs charge. But they do have to have some offense listed in addition to failure to identify. The sex toy law was just recently struck down by an appeals court. And it was not illegal to own more than five, owning more than five made you a "distributor" and as such infered that you intended to sell them which was illegal until the recent court ruling. The United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, Reliable Consultants Inc. and PHE Inc. v. Earle, February 12, 2008. Perry changed the law on the carrying in a vehicle I think it was last September. (The logic being that your vehicle is an extension of your home under the castle doctrine.) So no "journey" is required anymore... As for the Texas cops thing, youre absolutely right. Remember in Texas Disorderly Conduct includes "utterance or a profanity" or "making a lewd gesture" so the cop can say he saw you flip the bird. As for the other posters claiming lawsuits and false arrest etc - GOOD LUCK. I mena in the case I cited in the other thread a guy bled to death and the deputy was disciplined by being fired from the sherrifs dept and hired as a constable. Thats a promotion... The DA declined to prosecute. One of the two Pasadena cops who beat the hispanic guy to death for public intoxication had previously tortured a high school student when he was a school cop and skated on that. Neither of them are being prosecuted for beating that guy to death and his lawyer shut up and went away.... You will not get a prosecutor to go against the cops, and if you do you wont find a jury to convict. Google Vidor sometime... You know its still not integrated? Clinton / Janet Reno tried to integrate it and the one guy who held out the longest eventually gave up and ironically was killed the very day he left. Coincidental huh? Somebody said in an earlier post they would go there and assert their rights well look at this http://www.kordelski.org/vidor2.html Amazing such things still exist but they do, and Ive been there and seen them with my own eyes. Like archer said "you cant beat the ride"... In some towns, that ride may be a one way ride out to the bayou...

Alumbrado -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 11:09:17 AM)
Again, feel free to live your life in fear of sick holdouts from the bad old days... I refuse.

Owner59 -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 11:10:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado You can't stop the homeless, or the poor, and so forth from voting. They can't, but I'm seeing some admission that that's what some people would be hoping to be able to do. Of course some people would hope to do that... and some people would hope to repeat the old tradition of winning with thousands of dead people's votes counted. In between, there needs to be a reasonable means of controlling voter fraud without adding an unreasonable burden to voters who don't fit into mainstream categories of income, or housing. Showing some form of ID to vote has been established as a Constitutionally reasonable means by the Court. I'm not seeing too many alternate suggestion as to how voter fraud can be prevented without it. Thousands of dead people voting,......that`s an urban myth. Since you`re a stickler for proof,links and such,care to show us all this voter fraud you`re talking about. News articles,reports of fraud trails and known examples of voter fraud.

kittinSol -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 11:13:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado Again, feel free to live your life in fear of sick holdouts from the bad old days... I refuse. Nostalgie, quand tu nous tiens...

Alumbrado -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 11:16:14 AM)
quote: Thousands of dead people voting,......that`s an urban myth. Ask Dick Gregory, he referenced it in his Political Primer in regards to the Chicago voting practices... Or you can go on record as calling him a neo-con if you like...it couldn't make you look any more out of touch.

Owner59 -> RE: Partisan voter supression law gets vetoed by Kansas Governor (5/22/2008 11:25:32 AM)
Yeah,I`ll ask Dick,next time I run into him.lol Wow ,I anticipated see`n those colored link thingies. But alas,there are as many links as there is integrity in your posts. I`ve seen you argue both sides before.Maybe you`re bored or like stirring the pot or whatever.lol And,you want to play all outraged and stuff when you`re called on it? lol

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875