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RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 10:04:06 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Plus room and board and uniform allowance and medical and dental and travel and training and college and bonus pay and and and


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Orion, I agree.
If we consider them "proffessionals" and I think they are, then we need to pay them like proffessionals!
How many proffessionals in the "D.P.S." would go over to Iraq for $40k per year, live like an animal and get shot at?
It's rediculous!

40k/year? You've got to be an E-7 to get anywhere near that much. An E-5 with over 4 years in is only making 27k/year base pay and add in $2700 a year combat pay so under 30k a year for a Sergeant under fire.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 10:08:33 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Plus room and board and uniform allowance and medical and dental and travel and training and college and bonus pay and and and


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Orion, I agree.
If we consider them "proffessionals" and I think they are, then we need to pay them like proffessionals!
How many proffessionals in the "D.P.S." would go over to Iraq for $40k per year, live like an animal and get shot at?
It's rediculous!

40k/year? You've got to be an E-7 to get anywhere near that much. An E-5 with over 4 years in is only making 27k/year base pay and add in $2700 a year combat pay so under 30k a year for a Sergeant under fire.



Would you tell us why you don`t support the troops?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/21/2008 10:09:03 AM >

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 10:09:12 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		People forget that.  I made more per year in free medical, dental, legal services, room and board, and numerous bonuses than many americans make in a year.  THEN they gave me the money to go out and drink with ... I mean my paycheck.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 10:17:45 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

People forget that.  I made more per year in free medical, dental, legal services, room and board, and numerous bonuses than many americans make in a year.  THEN they gave me the money to go out and drink with ... I mean my paycheck.


Yeah,no wonder the recruiter`s are busting at the seams with enlistees....

All that good chow and those bunk rooms,talk about restful and relaxing.

Those showers are the icing on the cake,aren`t they ?

Best part now is,the Itaq vets gotta fight to get treated at the VA.

Ain`t army life grand?

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/21/2008 10:18:38 AM >

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 10:23:58 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		You speak with such a convincing lack of knowledge of the lifestyle.  My rooms in the service were good rooms but not 5 star.  The food was adequate if not gourmet.  The showers were only group showers in basic training.  There are a lot of people out there in worse conditions.
Tell the democratic controlled congress to give more funding to the VA and none of our vets will have to fight for treatment.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 10:31:54 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

You speak with such a convincing lack of knowledge of the lifestyle.  My rooms in the service were good rooms but not 5 star.  The food was adequate if not gourmet.  The showers were only group showers in basic training.  There are a lot of people out there in worse conditions.
Tell the democratic controlled congress to give more funding to the VA and none of our vets will have to fight for treatment.

I thought you claimed to have served in the Navy? You had a room on ship? You had a private shower on ship?

As to funding the VA, check out the budgets sent down by GWB for the VA funding. He is opposed to full funding of the VA and has consistently threatened vetoes of VA spending increases since 2006.

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 11:05:39 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

You speak with such a convincing lack of knowledge of the lifestyle.  My rooms in the service were good rooms but not 5 star.  The food was adequate if not gourmet.  The showers were only group showers in basic training.  There are a lot of people out there in worse conditions.
Tell the democratic controlled congress to give more funding to the VA and none of our vets will have to fight for treatment.


The dems don`t run the pentagon or the VA.

They have gotten all and any moneys asked for.

The POTUS spends the money and manages those things.Unfortunately he spends the money on anything, but the soldiers.

Did you say you were a vet?

This is a good and needed bill.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 5/21/2008 11:10:07 AM >

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 11:12:35 AM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		Actually, the president forms the budget policy but the budget is approved by, and the money is appropriated by, the House of Representatives.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 11:14:54 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Why should we spend billions training them then spend billions more to purposely entice them to walk out right after they're trained. The military isn't purely an entitlement program, as you seem to think, and Democrats offering legislation giving soldiers pie-in-the-sky benefits in exchange for votes (and for leaving the service) is stupid, and it's deplorable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Retention is the only consistent complaint he has against the Webb GI bill. It is shameful and every vet should think long and hard about what this issue shows about McCain.



I hardly think four years of tution at a public college is a "pie-in-the sky benefit".  The total cost of the program is a small fraction of what we spend in Iraq in a year.  What I really get a kick out of is the die-hard Republicans are never wrong no matter what they say or do attitude.  I would almost bet money that you drive around with a "support our troops" bumpersticker.  Am I right?  Maybe it's time to put your money where your mouth is.  Democrats are accused of not supporting the troops when they oppose the war, yet by some twisted logic they are wrong to want to expand benefits to those same troops.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 11:17:56 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I would almost bet money that you drive around with a "support our troops" bumpersticker.  Am I right?  Maybe it's time to put your money where your mouth is.  Democrats are accused of not supporting the troops when they oppose the war, yet by some twisted logic they are wrong to want to expand benefits to those same troops.



Are you sure logic comes into play there?

_____________________________



(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 11:22:19 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		I'm going to play word choice police here..."auspicious" is not the best word for the job, I would suggest "noteworthy" in it's place. Or better still, try this:

McCain's noteworthy opposition to the new GI Bill

That tells it all right there.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 11:24:11 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Actually, the president forms the budget policy but the budget is approved by, and the money is appropriated by, the House of Representatives.


And he`s gotten any and all moneys asked for.....

Done...Given... Money there....

WTF hasn`t the money gone to benifit vets and soldiers?

Answers please!

And none of this slick Rush talk, non-answers and talking around the point of the subject.

Walter Reed,vets having to fight for benifits/medical treatment,wounded soldiers being charged for treatment,nickle and diming them like corporate hustlers.

It`s a fucking outrage.

(in reply to cyberdude611)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 12:19:58 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		A notable miss by all the folks reading the articles is Transferability of Benifits to wives. Not exactly a bad idea.
Yet missing from and considered one of the major contentions For McCains bill and against Webbs.

The article says that each branch can choose to make them transferable but none have at this time (likely non would in the near future either) So McCains version would mandate the policy DOD wide.Allowing the GI bill to be useable by the spouces could go a long way towards helping the families of solidiers. A lower face value benifit that is useable by both the military member after getting out and by the spouce while they are in (If the things I have heard and read about it are correct) is not exactly short changing them, since it mandates that the spouces all be eligable for GI bill benifits as well.

Funny how it goes from offering a different bill that you believe is better to McCain doesn't care.
He cared enough to write his own  new GI Bill, just because it doesn't front load the benifits to first enlistments hardly makes him a damnedable military hating person.

It's a partisan overstatement.

To give an equal time overstatement

"Webb hates military spouces so much he refuses to make GI Bill benifits transferable, wanting to keep the wives in the kitchen I suppose."

See how silly it looks.




(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 1:19:02 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		No. As everyone who has been following this knows, Webb offered his bill many months ago and its been winding its way to a vote. In the last 6 weeks McCain announced his opposition to the bill and then offered his competing bill, which has virtually no support in the Senate and has no support in the House, only after the White House announced GWB's opposition to any new GI Bill. It looks like McCain is trying to provide himself political cover to avoid opposing GWB on this issue.

I further note that precisely one vet in the Senate is in favor of the McCain bill. All the other vets are sponsors of the Webb bill.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 1:30:27 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		1. McCain was a cosponsor if i read the article correctly. (can't change his mind for political or other reasons and offer an alternative??????????)
2. citing your 6 weeks (not unusual for a 6 week old bill to not have alot of support when it is an alternative to another bill)
3. If Bush is already on record as going to veto, then why not offer a bill you think might get through congress and be signed?????? Trying for half a loaf perhaps? That old thing called a compromise solution?
4. You still have ignored the primary point of my first post the issue of transferable to spouces benifit. (Care to address the major point I offered rather than things I didn't address?) Personally I find the idea of transferable benifit for spouces to be a grand idea worthy of considering.




< Message edited by Archer -- 5/21/2008 1:31:28 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 1:41:56 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

1. McCain was a cosponsor if i read the article correctly. (can't change his mind for political or other reasons and offer an alternative??????????)
2. citing your 6 weeks (not unusual for a 6 week old bill to not have alot of support when it is an alternative to another bill)
3. If Bush is already on record as going to veto, then why not offer a bill you think might get through congress and be signed?????? Trying for half a loaf perhaps? That old thing called a compromise solution?
4. You still have ignored the primary point of my first post the issue of transferable to spouces benifit. (Care to address the major point I offered rather than things I didn't address?) Personally I find the idea of transferable benifit for spouces to be a grand idea worthy of considering.

The majority in both houses is nearly veto proof. McCain's bill has pulled off a few senators which will allow the GI Bill to not have that veto proof majority. Whether GWB will veto or not and whether the veto will be overrode is still to be seen but I wouldn't want to be running for office this year with a vote against the Webb GI Bill hanging around my neck.

As to the transferability, its been available for a decade or more and no branch has decided to implement. There hasn't been any widespread call for it. Although to be blunt I oppose transferability because if it was transferable it could be lost in a divorce settlement and IME junior enlisted, those who benefit from the GI Bill the most, should not be able to lose such a benefit to a court's whim.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 5:18:57 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

You speak with such a convincing lack of knowledge of the lifestyle.  My rooms in the service were good rooms but not 5 star.  The food was adequate if not gourmet.  The showers were only group showers in basic training.  There are a lot of people out there in worse conditions.
Tell the democratic controlled congress to give more funding to the VA and none of our vets will have to fight for treatment.

I thought you claimed to have served in the Navy? You had a room on ship? You had a private shower on ship?




Thanks for once again showing that your constant ranting at military vets that they are lying about their service goes hand in glove with not knowing what you are talking about when it comes to what service life is like.... Yeah, the Navy has plenty of rooms, and non group showers do in fact exist. And contrary to whatever movies you are getting your information from, not everyone in the Navy is on a ship all the time.


On a broader note, the barrage of made up 'expertise' around CM is getting ridiculous...19 year old E-6s, and 3 year E-7s?   Having to have a private pilot's license prior to joining the military to fly?

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 5:58:57 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I say give it to them!
Raise my taxes for that.
McCain is looking like a curmudgion on this.
And I agree that they shouldn't be "tacking on" other stuff to Bills.



He's a bum with the word ''Senator'' before his name. Anyone who served honorably should be entitled to a free education at their leisure.





- R



_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 8:34:42 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

You speak with such a convincing lack of knowledge of the lifestyle.  My rooms in the service were good rooms but not 5 star.  The food was adequate if not gourmet.  The showers were only group showers in basic training.  There are a lot of people out there in worse conditions.
Tell the democratic controlled congress to give more funding to the VA and none of our vets will have to fight for treatment.

I thought you claimed to have served in the Navy? You had a room on ship? You had a private shower on ship?




Thanks for once again showing that your constant ranting at military vets that they are lying about their service goes hand in glove with not knowing what you are talking about when it comes to what service life is like.... Yeah, the Navy has plenty of rooms, and non group showers do in fact exist. And contrary to whatever movies you are getting your information from, not everyone in the Navy is on a ship all the time.

I just double checked every post I've ever made on this forum that mentioned the military or service or navy and this is the one of only two where I challenged the veracity of a posters claims. The other was a guy that was caught by many people lying about many things. So two posts in dozens does not constitute constant. Do not tell lies about me again.

I served 4 years at sea in my 6 year enlistment. From what I saw that is roughly what all but a few ratings did. As to private rooms on ship that's CPO's and commissioned officers on every ship I've ever heard about. Same for private showers. Enlisted live in berthing compartments which on the ships I served on was 3 bunks high and had a communal shower.

quote:

On a broader note, the barrage of made up 'expertise' around CM is getting ridiculous...19 year old E-6s, and 3 year E-7s?   Having to have a private pilot's license prior to joining the military to fly?

I didn't make any such claim.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Senate to vote on new GI Bill despite McCain's ausp... - 5/21/2008 8:46:18 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		If you served in the navy then you are fully aware that there are actually more support personnel that are not on ships than sailors who are.  Since I was at that time married to a member who was on sea duty, I was relegated to shore duty.  Apparently you can't read the word "barracks" or that thought might have dawned on you.
Of course, my dd214 could be lying about all of that and the VA could be part of a cover up since they treated me for my medical problems.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 40
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