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Just ones point of view about life - 10/22/2005 12:19:33 PM

QuietMaster4u

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I'm going to to sit here, and ask a question about life. Participation is voluntary, but ask that all keep an open mind about what we are discussing. About the values we hold and what, if anything we are willing to do about them.

Do we profess to have strong values in our lives, that we are willing to stand up for and defend. Or, do we talk about our values and then let other lead the way?

I think the question I'm trying to ask... Has to do with, how much are you willing to get involved with protecting those close to you. Are you willing to come forward and face the evil yourself, regardless of the risk to you? Or, would you rather.. someone else, say law enforcement, come forward and protect you and your property?

What is the difference between being involved with our own lives and safety, versus letting others defend us.

Since this is my post, I will open with this...
I'm a firm believer in justice and law enforcement. With that said, I am also aware that there are limits to what any law enforcement agency can and can not do. What I am saying, is that police in general can only deal with crimes as they are committed. Therefore, they are at best a "reactionary" force. That can be unleashed, after the fact.

So what does one do before the commitment of the act?

[Mod Edit of the following comments for content:please check mail]

I can see, I have dirfted... but the point remains.

This is one possible scenario....
Change the context, your wife/slave/sub/lover/friend... is being followed, by a man (or the roles could be reverse, though not many men would openly admit to such an action. Just like no man would ever report being raped - yes this does occur). They have made no direct contact, they just happens to be in the same place as the other person. On a regular basis. They find, notes on their vehicle. With no name, just words describing things. This continues, even though you change your routine. Change your schedule. Change your life in an attempt to avoid this person. How far do you go, if you choose this route?
No crime has been committed. Yes, you are being followed. Yes, you are being stalked. But, besides leaving notes/flowers/whatever... no physical contact has been made. Perhaps, he has been leaving you threating messages online.
Until a physical act has been committed, the local law enforcement are unable or unwilling to help you.

How much do you put up with? How much do you let another person dictate, where and when you go places (this does not relate to the context of lifestyle)? Do you just notify the police and hope it will go away?

I have been accused of having a "white knight", personality. I choose my fights, based upon my skills and experiences. I'll defend and stand up for my family, first and foremost. I'll help to protect my friends to whatever extent I can.

I'm not looking to start fights here, with anyone.
All I'm getting at is this... I'm willing to stand up for what I believe in. I'm willing to act on those belief's. I'm willing to defend and protect, those that I choose to. This is who I am.

< Message edited by ModeratorTen -- 10/23/2005 4:50:16 AM >

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RE: Just ones point of view about life - 10/22/2005 1:00:35 PM

EmeraldSlave2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: QuietMaster4u
I think the question I'm trying to ask... Has to do with, how much are you willing to get involved with protecting those close to you. Are you willing to come forward and face the evil yourself, regardless of the risk to you? Or, would you rather.. someone else, say law enforcement, come forward and protect you and your property?

Gee no idea what could have brought this topic up...

I would do all that I am capable and truly able to do to help someone else. However, sometimes that means the best thing to do it leave it up to law enforcement as they are better trained and resourced. As well, I wouldn't want to cause or tempt FURTHER damage by making myself some hero.

quote:

All I'm getting at is this... I'm willing to stand up for what I believe in. I'm willing to act on those belief's. I'm willing to defend and protect, those that I choose to. This is who I am.

Let's remember- we're talking about ADULTS here, people who are held responsible for their own actions and choices, both the victims and the assaulters. Trying to protect a child is a COMPLETELY different situation.

Anyway, what I said in the other thread is what I stand with now, and this isn't an either/or situation. Someone doesn't lack morals or fails to stand up for what they believe in just because they don't take the law into their own hands and become vigilantes.

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RE: Just ones point of view about life - 10/22/2005 2:11:19 PM

SadistDave

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I think I may have said this in your other "white knight" thread, but here goes...

The police will not protect you. They will show up after the dust has settled to figure out who to blame under the law. Personally, I make it a point not to notify the police unless there is some legal benefit for me to do so. I'm also extremely careful to keep any of my activities that may involve them strictly within the law, or absolutely untraceable.

There are many ways to exploit the law. I would strongly suggest that you learn every thing you can about the law, and find unique and sadistic ways to twist it to your advantage. Learn a little science. Learn a little psychology. Learn a little criminology. Figure out how to throw it all together in a nice little package that you can label "FUCK YOU!" on to give to people who pose a threat to you.

I'm going to be in the minority on this I'm sure, but I tend to look at confrontation, no matter how minor, as a war. Losing a battle here or there doesn't matter if you win the war.

-SD-

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RE: Just ones point of view about life - 10/22/2005 9:28:06 PM

domtimothy46176

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I like to keep it simple.

I would never do anything in front of witnesses, even someone I was trying to protect.

Never, under any circumstances whatsoever, would I shoot or stab someone in the back, regardless of the provocation. It makes it impossible to plead self-defense.

When expecting trouble, always have a clean, untraceable throwaway weapon to plant on the other person.

Make sure the first wound is fatal. If your statement is the only account, it's harder to dispute.

If at all possible, lure the other person into your home or business. Self-defense pleas are always more plausible and easier to defend if you can paint the other person as an aggressive intruder.

Stick with your story about self-defense for the rest of your life. A lot of people have screwed themselves by running their mouths to friends and family.

Your best bet, however, is to avoid a confrontation in the first place. I would much rather move across country than have to put a hole in someone. I've never met anyone who was so much a pain that it would be worth the hassle of dealing with the police and prosecutor just to extinguish them.

If a confrontation is unavoidable, a lot of people are susceptible to threats, if phrased correctly. Shotguns are scarier than pistols, especially when they're aimed at the pelvic region. Many men are more fearful of emasculation that death.

Allowing a potential adversary to avoid a confrontation while still maintaining his sense of dignity will decrease the liklihood of future confrontations.

Humiliate a man and he may just track you to the ends of the earth to regain his sense of pride. I, personally, would never beat a man and allow him the opportunity to heal up and come back for revenge.

Just my $.02 worth,
Timothy

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RE: Just ones point of view about life - 10/23/2005 4:45:32 AM

darkinshadows

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quote:

I have been accused of having a "white knight", personality. I choose my fights, based upon my skills and experiences. I'll defend and stand up for my family, first and foremost. I'll help to protect my friends to whatever extent I can.

I'm not looking to start fights here, with anyone.
All I'm getting at is this... I'm willing to stand up for what I believe in. I'm willing to act on those belief's. I'm willing to defend and protect, those that I choose to. This is who I am.

Personally, I dont see someone who 'chooses their fights based upon skills and experience ' as a 'white knight'... A 'white knight' serves and commits to something they believe in, not based on if they can 'do it' or not. A 'white knight' just does it - even if they may lose...

I am firmly of the belief that it doesnt matter how much someone aids another, unless the person who is the victim stands up for themself , then they will always be the victim. You can be a pillow, but it only cushions the fall - it doesnt stop the situation.
Fear causes attacks, and in that case, the bully wins... fight back with malice and one is no better than the bully...

I would rather be in control of my life, then overcome and losing control to cause pain.

Peace and Love

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RE: Just ones point of view about life - 10/23/2005 9:12:33 AM

perfection20005

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I am a firm believer that I will protect myself and my own on my own at first. If that doesn't work, then maybe the call to the law. I don't have much faith in our justice system, I know it works sometimes, but sometimes not. I do believe in myself, and I would face death to protect my kids or other family.
I guess I get that from my dad, who would fight for me until the end, even if I am wrong sometimes. He has always backed me and has even fought with my mom for me. I hate to admit this, but if it came down to it, I would take the law into my own hands if someone was hurting my family.

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RE: Just ones point of view about life - 10/24/2005 9:21:14 PM

QuietMaster4u

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[/quote]
Someone doesn't lack morals or fails to stand up for what they believe in just because they don't take the law into their own hands and become vigilantes.
[/quote]

Emerald, if you feel I am saying that people lack morals for failing to stand up for what they believe in. I'm not.

I'm also not advocating - vigilanteism. An eye for an eye, while it may be written in the book. Is open to discussion, about just how to take that. As is the entire book.

What I'm trying to get at, is that all of us have skills and experiences that can be brought to bear to help others in a time of need. If you were trained in 1st aid/cpr, would you stand by and wait for the paramedics to show up while your friend laid at the ground bleeding? Or perhaps you have skills in professional letter writting and a friend asked you to help them write a letter of importance to a potential business partner, would you turn them away? Or would you help?

Simple question, that only each of us can answer when the time comes.

For me, it was a simple yes. I used to be a park ranger. I used to help people on a daily basis, whether it was giving directions, answering a question about the park, or helping a stranger in a time of need. So, it wasn't a stretch for me to do some investigating and to put my life on the line for a friend.

In the past, I've chased wild dogs through parks and city streets, that had threaten people just walking by. I've attached my patrol truck, to car sliding down hills to keep the occupants safe till another vehicle & ranger could assist. I've put myself between aggressors and their victims countless times. Only difference this time, was I knew the person I was defending.

My skills.
My experiences.
My decision.

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RE: Just ones point of view about life - 10/26/2005 9:13:36 AM

pinkpleasures

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In my past, especially my youth, i had to know whom to trust and whom to fear...and there were many people to be deeply feared. i did sometimes stand by as another person i cared for was hurt, but in a situation where i had no power. All i could do was try to comfort her, and she did not want it.

Later in my high school years i carried a switchblade, and of the two times i used it, once was for the protection of another person as well as myself.

Now as a parent and friend, i am constantly told i am over-protective and so i am trying to refrain from even giving advice unless asked, realising that allowing someone to vent is a way of comforting them.

That said...harm my kid and i would hunt you down like a dog....no matter how old she gets. Funny thing is, my kid has some of my behaviors in her repetorie and can frighten off bad people on her own.

Yes, i believe in standing by one's family and friends, in whatever capacity is prudent. i would offer You the notion that stalking laws are in effect in many states, and people can be arrested and convicted for the behaviors You described.

i would advocate a carry permit for the target of the stalking, but some people will never pull the trigger and end up being harmed by their own weapon. Most people would use mace, which is fairly cheap and available.

There's a book i'd like to recommend; "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker. In it, he describes the variety of stalking and escalating violence some people suffer, and i think his advice is on the money: if You can persuade the police to "have a little talk" with a stalker, all he learns is that the police do not at present have grounds for an arrest. So that is a tactic DeBecker recommends against.

It's hard to know for sure from the Op whether You are posing a hypothetical or undergoing this suffering in real life. Again, i recommend DeBecker's book as it contains a list of behaviors/markers the help predict whether the stalker will escalate to violence or eventually lose interest.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 10/26/2005 4:26:05 PM >

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RE: Just ones point of view about life - 10/26/2005 4:39:40 PM

sub4hire

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quote:

I think the question I'm trying to ask... Has to do with, how much you are willing to get involved with protecting those close to you. Are you willing to come forward and face the evil yourself, regardless of the risk to you? Or, would you rather.. someone else, say law enforcement, come forward and protect you and your property?

I am not your average citizen, nor have I ever been. I am somebody who was given ten day's to live 19 year's ago. I am someone who had much patriotism while growing up. I am very interested in the environment.
I will however kill someone who messes with someone I love. I did drive by's before there was such a word.

Essentially I guess what I am saying here is. When I bought my first house. It was a repo. Drug raid. I got it dirt cheap. Apparently there was some rumor going around the addicts that as the cops burst in someone stashed something like 30 grand in the house. So, every addict within 50 miles was breaking into my home.
They even stole the electric meter. Anyway, I'd call the sheriff's dept who would then tell me that I had no right calling them. Even though I owned the house. The last person to live there had to call. Hey, he was in prison.
I was dumping a few thousand in the house to get it even able to be lived in. New wiring...etc. During this time I decided to load a couple of gun's I own and protect my house since the sheriff's dept would not protect its citizens. Even wrote a letter to the newspaper. They showed up at my home telling me I had no right to write this letter. They didn’t’t like bad publicity after all. So, I told them to start doing their jobs. Said goodbye.
Continued my quest.
I eventually moved in. Rebuilt the house. I went from a 2 bed 1 bath to a 4 bed 2 baths in the course of a year. During this time I watched over my 5 acres with loaded gun in hand. Those who basically told me they had reason to be on my property I took a shot at. I am an excellent shot. I didn't necessarily want to end up in jail myself from killing a person so I missed. For months and month's they just thought I was a bad shot.
Although nobody unsavory ever stepped on my property again.
I went from an 8 hour response time to less than 5 minutes with the sheriff's dept. Nobody was ever ripped off while I lived there. I stuck up for my neighbor's and myself.

I later got an accommodation from the sheriff's dept for cleaning up the neighborhood all alone.
In any event I have to agree with the person who tells you the authorities are not going to protect you. You need to protect yourself.
There are ways to get around things if you really need to.

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RE: Just ones point of view about life - 10/27/2005 6:57:38 AM

pinkpleasures

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Holy cow, sub4hire; you have my respect. i am not sure i could have handled the situation you described as well...i might have abandoned the house that ppl were breaking into...defending property has not come up in my life...but i admire the way you took care of yourself and the transition you made so quickly.

pinkpleasures

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RE: Just ones point of view about life - 10/27/2005 11:12:25 AM

BlkTallFullfig

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quote:

I am not your average citizen, nor have I ever been. I am somebody who was given ten day's to live 19 year's ago. I am someone who had much patriotism while growing up. I am very interested in the environment.
I will however kill someone who messes with someone I love. I did drive by's before there was such a word.

I hate violence. Even the thought of it, and though I hope never to be in the circumstance of having to, I would die or kill to protect my loved ones if they were in danger by an intruder/predator. Since I hate guns/violence, next time I move, I'll try and be your neighbor since I know you will have my back.

M

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RE: Just ones point of view about life - 10/27/2005 11:14:34 AM

BlkTallFullfig

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quote:

Personally, I dont see someone who 'chooses their fights based upon skills and experience ' as a 'white knight'... A 'white knight' serves and commits to something they believe in, not based on if they can 'do it' or not. A 'white knight' just does it - even if they may lose...

I agree Angel, thanks for explaining what a White Knight actually means. M

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RE: Just ones point of view about life - 10/27/2005 11:51:42 AM

sub4hire

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quote:

Holy cow, sub4hire; you have my respect. i am not sure i could have handled the situation you described as well...i might have abandoned the house that ppl were breaking into...defending property has not come up in my life...but i admire the way you took care of yourself and the transition you made so quickly.

Well, Pink the bottom line is we choose to be victims. We can claim ignorance after we've been attacked yet we still chose ignorance in the first place instead of educating ourselves. I merely choose not to be a victim. In all facets of life.
Take these board's for instance. It amazes me the way most respond yet never really even read what they are responding to. Of those who echo's the other's sentiments to the t yet have no clue they did. I've always considered it an inability to read.
Although the other day someone pointed out, that it is not that people cannot read but don't care to read. Bottom line, people here on the board's don't want to expand their horizons. They want to talk yet never listen to what anybody has to say.
Then they go out, get hurt and claim ignorance. Whose fault is that really?

As I've stated I don't choose to be anyone's victim in life.

M, you can come be my neighbor anytime. I have to warn you though, I do own an arsenal of weapons. My prize posession is a 30/06 from World War 2....and no...I just inherited them all. Then decided to go target shooting. Never purchased a single weapon yet. I won't part with any of them though.

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RE: Just ones point of view about life - 10/27/2005 9:54:21 PM

pinkpleasures

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sub4hire; i'd love to have you as a neighbor...and i'd love my own gun and carry permit but $$ prevents it. On the other hand, i'd never give my kid a gun because i don't think she'd shoot.

pinkpleasures

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