The setting of limits (Full Version)

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SirSix72 -> The setting of limits (10/23/2005 10:02:16 PM)

Seems that my past post have left me wanting to know more about these limits that I see others post about all the time..........most of which I dont really understand except for the ones that are either illegal or just plain sick like eating shit............I have seen others post about that the limit is the end to the how the Dom can play......I have seen posted that if these limits are pushed then the other uncomplying party can walk out or whatever they feel........very interesting subject to me........and yes I believe the party setting the limit is the controlling member in the relationship but thats beside the point here...I want to know more about why these limits are set....I have seen some pretty ambigious ones like dont call me whore or dont touch my butt in public........

Master Six



JustaTop -> RE: The setting of limits (10/23/2005 10:05:27 PM)

Let me put it this way.

I have a limit of no cheating. It will get broken exactly ONCE, and a girl is history in a relationship with me. YOU have the woman you do,because she has adopted YOUR limits.

If they didn't match,you would not have her,would you?



SirSix72 -> RE: The setting of limits (10/23/2005 10:13:16 PM)

No not really to be honest she was against poly when we first met and she begged for my collar...she has experienced many htings with me that she thought impossible....we werent a perfect match by any means.....I trained her....in essence I taught her where My loyalities where and where I expected hers to be.........she was an emotional wreck from two previous Masters and one previous Mistress............now she is an emotionally secure slave that serves without hestitation to my wants and needs.........this is about honor...she is property nothing more nothing less...she had hard knocks and alot of misinformed persons that showed her things that are not part of this lifestyle...

Master Six



JustaTop -> RE: The setting of limits (10/23/2005 10:21:11 PM)

She's still merely adopting your limits. It matters little that you have changed them.

"Adaptation" can often seem like ceding control-when it's actually just compromise. The ACTUAL test of control comes from enforcing something that entails the creation of REAL suffering in the individual.



Belladonna82 -> RE: The setting of limits (10/23/2005 10:33:25 PM)

Hello Sir Justatop,

Master and i are far from the perfect match...we were and are so diffrent...In the beginging You should have known us......Master was a Gorean Poly Master....and i was a submissive who had just been released from a Mistress.In the begining i didnt want poly...hell i refused poly...i saw it as cheating....i was a stingy woman who had a submissive old fashion nature but none the less was attracted to his ways and wanted to learn more.Master took me under his wings and explained that the things i refused were limits....emotional at that because of past relations.It took months of him pressing them for me to let go and just trust he had my best interest in mind and wouldnt let my emotional rollercoster go off track.Do i still like the idea of poly u may ask....lol NO....its not on my top todo list,but i will yield to Masters ways,no accept them...but trust Him that no matter what as long as i bow before Him...he will work me and train me to release that emotional hold i try to keep a firm grasp on.Master found a young...nieve girl who believed in the old ways and molded her into his desires.....i was like a peice of clay...and have just reached the fire kettle and have harded into a beautiful peice of art made by Master.A slave is a slave....nothing more....but with the right Masters hand molding....she can be what ever he wishes.....
This is how Master has created me....i trust...not accept.

Forever in servitude,
bella
*Proud kajira of SirSix72*



IronBear -> RE: The setting of limits (10/23/2005 10:41:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72

Seems that my past post have left me wanting to know more about these limits that I see others post about all the time..........most of which I dont really understand except for the ones that are either illegal or just plain sick like eating shit............I have seen others post about that the limit is the end to the how the Dom can play......I have seen posted that if these limits are pushed then the other uncomplying party can walk out or whatever they feel........very interesting subject to me........and yes I believe the party setting the limit is the controlling member in the relationship but thats beside the point here...I want to know more about why these limits are set....I have seen some pretty ambigious ones like dont call me whore or dont touch my butt in public........

Master Six


Tal my friend Six,

That's a pretty impressive post your girl made. Its always good to read such things from the view of a kajira.

From my perspective, setting limits and in fact dealing with limits falls into two categories.

1. Because I don’t have anyone in a collar at this time, I may need to “use’ as submissive who is not of the Gorean persuasion but who is a pain slut, in order to get the practice and experience in needle play or (pain slut qualifications not necessary) Shibari. In cases and especially the needle play area, I am aware that I’ll need to be mindful of the submissive’s limits and safe word.

2. Regarding setting limits for someone in my collar, one of the reasons for me owning a slave of for my pleasure rather than to practice numerous BDSM techniques on. As part of my wanting and needing to know my kajira, I want to know what she fears and why. I have no desire to risk her mental health by, for example, forcing her into needle play when she has a paranoid fear of needles or caging her when she, like me has serious claustrophobic problems. There are obviously other areas in which I can and will push her as part of her growth and training or new areas to introduce her to. As a kajira, she will have no safe word or limits other than those I set for her. Ergo I best be sure of where I set both hard and temporary limits. If this makes me look like a woos, tough luck, I’ll be the safest woos in Gor. I’ve broken too many people in the past so why should I want to break my own property?





greenie -> RE: The setting of limits (10/23/2005 10:44:54 PM)

quote:

"Adaptation" can often seem like ceding control-when it's actually just compromise.


i didn't want to get into another long post again so i'm glad someone else said it.



JustaTop -> RE: The setting of limits (10/23/2005 10:50:29 PM)

I've been involved in tearing down limits and reservations myself. It's a patient process.

You might be surprised at some of the things I have gotten girls to do.

I still only see what appears to be control,as adaptation. And it only happened because I had enough to offer to keep it in balance. The same as Six does with you.[;)]



SirSix72 -> RE: The setting of limits (10/23/2005 10:57:26 PM)

Tal my freind IronBear,

I started this posts for the obvious reasons and wanted bella to post as well to show that hey just becuse you say you wont do something dosent mean that its forbidden...this is about emotional growth in areas that the mainstream of society has decided is taboo.....this is my experiment......and agin I wanted to show those that care to follow that the emotional roller coaster is ok but can be controlled through trust and honor......bella had many limits when we first met and had been through a great ordeal with many people in her life some good and some bad...the point being is that when you truly submit yourself to another you trust unlike anyone you have ever trusted before......there are many wounded psyches in the lifestlye yearning for the release of slavery......this is a natural thing and lots still hold onto the emotional ties that bind us all...the difference is can you be strong enough to let go of those emotional ties to the norm of society and see the happiness we can all bring each other through honor and trust........bella knows that I care for her more than a piece of gum and her emotional growth is a beautiful thing...she is becoming the most beautiful and precious flower.........this is what I created and I take great pride in her accomplishmnets in this lifestyle as well in her life as a psychology major much like myself...................and ya see ya dont have to be a perfect match to be compatible this is about life experience........if ya take the step and get out there and try you'll be amazed at the things that are possible with ones you trust

MAster Six



RiotGirl -> RE: The setting of limits (10/23/2005 11:01:39 PM)

i personally dont know about setting of limits as i have never set any limits with Master. <shrugs> It seems to make some ppl feel safer. More power to them.



JohnWarren -> RE: The setting of limits (10/23/2005 11:44:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72

Seems that my past post have left me wanting to know more about these limits that I see others post about all the time..........most of which I dont really understand except for the ones that are either illegal or just plain sick like eating shit............I have seen others post about that the limit is the end to the how the Dom can play......I have seen posted that if these limits are pushed then the other uncomplying party can walk out or whatever they feel........very interesting subject to me........and yes I believe the party setting the limit is the controlling member in the relationship but thats beside the point here...I want to know more about why these limits are set....I have seen some pretty ambigious ones like dont call me whore or dont touch my butt in public........

Master Six


Everyone has limits, dom or sub. Expressing them doesn't give control; it simply provides information that people can use to decide if they want to have a relationship.

Of course, some people's limits seem to be "breathing and mobile" and I suppose that does increase the available population but hardly reflects well on the standards of the person who holds them.



SirSix72 -> RE: The setting of limits (10/24/2005 1:12:57 AM)

I understand where you coming from John but I treid to explain myself a little better in another thread about are Dom's conforming.......I suppose that all these thread are somewhat linked together in a way to bring a little better understanding about the point im trying to convey...........I have treid the searching the limits thing time and time again and this time when I found bella I decided to work with the limits a little more closely and find someone that was a bit of a challenge to me.....and those that are mobile and breathing thing lmfao....I tend to stay away far away.....does say alot about the personal integrity of the person or the open mindedness of the individual...I would imagine if there is one constant in the limit is the illegal activities or scat......maybe you could shed a little light upon the post I made in the are Doms conforming

Master Six



fyreredsub -> RE: The setting of limits (10/24/2005 3:46:22 AM)

i would think you to are not the norm, i had posted somewhere a couple weeks ago about the sub having the power,lol, i'll have to find you thread where its in b/c that wasnt the original topic.and i got the oh no-its not so from several-

i agree that the whole point of having a master is to bring forth the woman to be more.....well, in my case professionl, spritiual,pleasing, whatever the need may be.

there is only one other couple i can think of that post here that show the same successes as your house(not to say that it doesnt exist for more, i'm just a few cups short still,lol)

even as a newbie submissive i have few limits, no trips to er, scat, children,needles,guns but that doesnt suffice to say that someone i trusted wouldnt have to take me along slowly to get to those limits so in essencs i'm setting the time table of we would get there,
ergo-i have the power, not him, he would be conciding to my wishes to get what he wants

to bella, you are lucky to be able to trust that much....i dont know yet if i could even if it is a longing

my emotional ties that bind still sometimes get stuck in past pains
to not have them anymore that would be a freedom


quote:

ORIGINAL: SirSix72

Tal my freind IronBear,

I started this posts for the obvious reasons and wanted bella to post as well to show that hey just becuse you say you wont do something dosent mean that its forbidden...this is about emotional growth in areas that the mainstream of society has decided is taboo.....this is my experiment......and agin I wanted to show those that care to follow that the emotional roller coaster is ok but can be controlled through trust and honor......bella had many limits when we first met and had been through a great ordeal with many people in her life some good and some bad...the point being is that when you truly submit yourself to another you trust unlike anyone you have ever trusted before......there are many wounded psyches in the lifestlye yearning for the release of slavery......this is a natural thing and lots still hold onto the emotional ties that bind us all...the difference is can you be strong enough to let go of those emotional ties to the norm of society and see the happiness we can all bring each other through honor and trust........bella knows that I care for her more than a piece of gum and her emotional growth is a beautiful thing...she is becoming the most beautiful and precious flower.........this is what I created and I take great pride in her accomplishmnets in this lifestyle as well in her life as a psychology major much like myself...................and ya see ya dont have to be a perfect match to be compatible this is about life experience........if ya take the step and get out there and try you'll be amazed at the things that are possible with ones you trust

MAster Six




pinkpleasures -> RE: The setting of limits (10/24/2005 3:59:11 AM)

quote:

Seems that my past post have left me wanting to know more about these limits that I see others post about all the time..........most of which I dont really understand except for the ones that are either illegal or just plain sick like eating shit............I have seen others post about that the limit is the end to the how the Dom can play......I have seen posted that if these limits are pushed then the other uncomplying party can walk out or whatever they feel........very interesting subject to me........and yes I believe the party setting the limit is the controlling member in the relationship but thats beside the point here...I want to know more about why these limits are set....I have seen some pretty ambigious ones like dont call me whore or dont touch my butt in public........

Master Six


i have rather strict limits...very hard ones and others that may change in a relationship. i too bristle at the words "slut" and "whore" due to my upbringing..but possibly could see the words in a different context if i were involved. My primary limit is monogamy; that means not playing with others, no cyber, etc. i want a very intimate relationship and i want it to exclude the rest of the world; i want to be all to Him, as He would be to me. i don't think my "kink" for monogamy is any less respectable than others' "kink" for poly. It applies only to me; i do not judge the way others conduct their relationships (or at least i have tried hard not to do so) and i fail to see how it limits anyone since i am single and hopeful, but not involved with a Dom or Master.

i think part of the problem is a lack of understanding (i was upset by the remark that "women do not need to know/discuss this" until IronBear explained it)..and a lack of mutual respect. Gor does not interest me as a choice i'd make for myself, but i dearly love IronBear and so i try to understand Gor some since it is part of who He is.

The same is true about poly and sadism...i have friends who are "into" both things, and i try to be educated by Them as a means of feeling closer to Them...but i know it's not for me.

i think it all boils down to mutual respect...and in my case...reflection before posting. Sometimes i get so upset i "see red"...and that's not the time to post. The comment about FlButtSlut and how she should put her child up for adoption is an example...i did not wait to calm down before posting,

There's no denying some people here post cruel remarks...and my knee jerk response is to call them cruel....but i am no longer certain of what to do about it. Here i truely could use advice.

i am pleased You have found bella and hope You find the second woman You seek; in short, i wish You happiness...despite the fact that i am not poly. It is not hard to accept You; generally it is not hard to accept anyone.

pinkpleasures



BlueDevil -> RE: The setting of limits (10/24/2005 4:46:30 AM)

I can offer what works for me.

My definition of a submissive is a free person, a peer, who is prepared to serve for a limited time, under a set of limits defined by her, sometimes, in the case of a novice, with my help. She has a safeword, a safe signal (in case she's gagged or unable to speak for some other reason). A slave, to me, is a submissive who has asked to be allowed to serve on a permanent basis as my property with no limits other than mine.

I won't push a submissive's limits unless she tells me that she wants to explore one or more of them. I will not negotiate my limits. They are hard and few, defined after a very long period.

Years ago I did push limits and it finally struck me that it reminded me too much of the frustration I used to feel before devoting myself to the lifestyle, when trying to talk my sex partners into more adventurous activities. I just decided to stop doing it.

The submissives that I work with understand that I will not collar submissives, only slaves, and that I will not collar a slave that has limits other than mine. I communicate my limits at the start. If the submissive wants to become my slave and wear my collar she knows that she has to push beyond the limits that separate us.

I no longer have girls accuse me of not respecting their limits. Girls no longer beg me not to 'make' them do certain things. And I no longer find myself in the position of trying to talk anyone into trying something or 'allowing' me to perform an act. I found all of that to be both frustrating and undignified.

When I do find a girl that is ready to ask for my collar I have a girl at the end of the day that will serve me the way that I want to be served. And I appreciate her for it.




kessia -> RE: The setting of limits (10/24/2005 6:05:45 AM)

I do not have many limits in regard to the 'lifestyle' in general. My limits are tend to be relationship dependent and change as the relationship changes. I do not "safeword" but rely instead on the dominant to listen to what i am saying and base his/her decisions upon that. Ignore the serious limits, cause me significant harm and i exercise my choice ~not~ to serve. Pretty simple really. No brattiness, no bullshit. Just truth.

~kess



starshineowned -> RE: The setting of limits (10/24/2005 6:07:39 AM)

quote:

No not really to be honest she was against poly when we first met and she begged for my collar


Greetings..~smiles~

The poly view for me has changed as well. Master has given me an entirely new and understandable perspective on this, and steered it much away from the main misgivings of it being all about sex or lost interest and put it much in the perspective of being a working, functional family. Master does not want headaches from girls that don't get along to the point of non-functioning as this counter-acts what he wanted in the first place. This is why I am being allowed to be involved in the search so that compatibility between the slaves is better established, thus making his life easier and more enjoyable, as well as it helps in the training and easing of undo fears that need not be there. Gosh just a whole host of reasons, and changes that he has brought about in me actually..lol

Point on this is..while my outlook and views have changed, the test of these changes has yet to be tested. Because I am slave many things will eventually happen. How I deal with them might be somewhat different. Master can only beat me so much to correct before he would tire of the hassle because of my not being able to deal. What then?..you leave or are sold off. Either way the relationship ends. Love, respect, obedience can only and will only take a free thinking human so far before misery and snappage.

This is just an example and does not really reflect Master and I because even with the misguided thoughts about poly before Master, I still wanted that family type life with chain sisters and brothers to even..:)

The accepting of an area to be pushed and trying your very best to grow in it is one thing..not being able to because it just is not within in you is another. What then does the Master do? Say well, hmm your not a real slave then despite the fact that I've owned you now for 4yrs, and you have excelled in accepting these other area's well, and please me in most every aspect of my life. But since you can not accept and excell in this one area I am getting rid of you.

That does not make sense to me but then again i'm a slave and if that is the owners decision then is not much can do to change it.

My thought process on this is very hard to equate to words here so my apologies if this rambling is not coming together to make sense.

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: The setting of limits (10/24/2005 6:08:44 AM)

It also is context dependent. If you're talking about a one scene encounter with someone who is a long time friend of yours, versus a one weekend vacation with two long term partners of yours, versus a lifetime commitment of slavery to a master...limits take on different purposes and priorities.

So the important thing is to figure out what your priorities are for the situation you are in, how they will play out and what they mean to you.



thetammyjo -> RE: The setting of limits (10/24/2005 6:35:05 AM)

Limits are one of the things that make BDSM different from rape, kidnapping, assault, or historical slavery because limits are things you should set up during negotiation. It is during this process, this stage that you should also be deciding whether or not you should be in a relationship and if 'yes' what type.

I don't accept people to train or into my service unless their limits either match mine or are neutral for me. Why would I create a stressful situation where I felt the need to push someone into areas they don't or can't go.

So one way to look at limits isn't as restricting but as gathering information.

When I accept someone it is because their limits are well within what I want and need -- within that space then I am the Mistress and I have as much authority as I want. If someone's limits do not work for me, no relationship and again that is my decision.

Of course someone can leave -- this is BDSM afterall not rape, assault, kidnapping or historical slavery. Legally in most of the western world today you could not stop someone from leaving you unless you wished to go to court or to jail.



krikket -> RE: The setting of limits (10/24/2005 6:45:36 AM)

When i first discovered D/s and identified with the submissive side i had a fairly long list of "limits" -- some hard, as in they're mostly illegal and/or on the extreme end of things, and some soft, i.e., they probably wouldn't stand when or if i ever found the right Master.

i was very lucky, for a while, that i found the right Master who was patient and kind and expanded my limits far beyond anything i had ever envisioned. There were things that i feared that he helped me work through, things that i loved that he helped me openly acknowledge..but those were only possible because i grew to trust him with everything i was.

Since i've been alone i've found that some of those soft imits have returned, and i think i've even added to them. The simple reason is that i no longer have someone in my life that i unconditionally trust. i don't know that i'll ever find it again..i try to remember to count my blessings, that i knew that kind of love and trust once, because it's more than a lot of people ever find.

i think limits are a good way to start off with someone -- and i firmly believe that both Doms and subs have them. Imho, a good relationship is one where the partners learn all they can about the other and both of them grow (limits explored, perhaps expanded). If limits are reached that can't be breached, then the couple will need to decide if they can both live with that or not. Either way, i don't believe there are any easy answers -- but then anything worth having doesn't have to be easy.

i'm really enjoying this thread, and am eager to learn more from those kind enough to share...

regards
jimini



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