RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life....

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DomAviator -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/25/2008 8:03:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight That guy wasn't hunting. He was a spectator. Had I gone hunting with my dad at the age of 10 and missed everything I fired at, I would have been grounded for a year. Dad's rule number?????(I lost count) = don't shoot unless its a clear shot that you can hit. Bullets cost money. Well worst of all I mispoke, he didnt miss most of it, he missed a vital area... So he shot things in the ass, shot things in the leg, shot things in the gut etc... Hence the reason the PH had to finish it off all the time. I speak afrikaans, and was talking with the PH one night during drinks and he was like "this is great hes paying me and Im on safari"... If I remember right I think the guy was a retired NYPD detective too, which wouldnt surprise me cause cops are the worst shots on the planet. Most cops (outside of those in special units) ONLY fire their guns once a year to requalify and I think for HPD you need to score a total of 60 points with two mags on a human silloute to do that....

DomAviator -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 1:41:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub On the bright side, I can't be charged with murder if I'm using a sword whereas a home owner who shoots an invader can sometimes be charged with murder - according to the lovely man who taught my college law and ethics class a few years ago anyway. I wouldn't bet on that. I have concealed carry permits in several states and I while I am not a lawyer, I have never seen a statute that references "shooting someone"... The statutes I have seen all pertain to "use of lethal force"... It doesnt matter if you shoot him with a (legally owned) bazooka, hack him up with a samuri sword, or whack him over the head with the toilet tank lid... If you kill him you have deployed "lethal force"... Lethal force laws vary dramatically by state. For example in NY I had a "duty to retreat" and could only employ lethal force to protect MY OWN life. In other words, if I walk into the house carrying a loaded AR-15 in my hands and someone is holding a knife to my wifes throat while raping my daughter (I have neither but at the time I lived in NY I did) I could NOT legally shoot the guy. My legal duty is to retreat, ie leave and call the cops and I PERSONALLY was not in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury. In the totally outrageous hypothetical situation above, If I shot him I would have been charged... Now would I be convicted? Who knows... If the DA got the right jury, and there was a rabble rousing faction like Al Shapton at play, quite possibly... By comparison here in Texas I have no duty to retreat. We follow something called "the castle doctrine" where a mans home is his castle and I can shoot anyone committing a felony within the walls of my castle. I can also employ deadly force to protect the "well being or property of another"... So if I am walking down the street and somebody is beating on an old lady trying to take her purse - I can fire on him and it is a good shoot. However, and again Im not a lawyer - but take this for what its worth - in all but a handful of states - Texas being one - if you engage an assailant you absolutely positively want to kill him. If you chop his arm off with a sword or scar him up or whatever he can and will sue you!!! (Texas and a few other western states have specific statuatory exemptions so that a person you injure or kill in the commission of a crime, or their estate, has no right to sue you for their injuries or death.) There is a case that happened in Buffalo NY, no shit, where a burgular got a $46,000 judgement from a home owner whose dog mauled him while he was attempting to burgularize the house. The fucker was in prison but had plenty of commissary money because he was disfigured and emotionally traumatized etc!!! There was also a case in NY somewhere in which a rape victim got a jail sentence for malicious wounding or something and some crazy civil penalty like a $200,000 judgement against her for biting off the tip of someones cock while he was forcing her to perform oral sex... Dead men dont testify at either grand jury hearings or civil trials, so if you engage, then engage to kill lest you have him swearing that he put the machete down and was in the process of peacefully surrendering when you went Bronson on him and started shooting him even though you were no longer in danger... If the assialant is dead, the only story that will be told is yours and what the crime scene investigators come up with in terms of who was standing where etc... My advice, know the laws in your state and if you arent 100% sure you can employ deadly force and achive an immediate kill, dont engage. Edited to add: Another consideration is that your sword / knife may not be legal. Here in Texas I can legally own an M-60 Machine Gun, MP-5, or M-16 provided I get the Sherrifs signature and pay a $200 transfer tax to BATF. However, in Texas an edged weapon with a blade more than 5-1/2" is illegal unless it is in your own home, or being used in a historical reenactment, theatrical production or in some official capacity (Liek the swords worn by Navy officers.... SO, if I see a kid being abducted out in the street and I run out there with my machine gun Im getting a pat on the back, if you run out there with your sword you're getting charged.... Weapons laws can be funky...

JohnWarren -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 1:56:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LondonArt Yes but when someone breaks into your home and shoots you from the doorway with their limited ammunition while you're drawing your shiny sword, that pointy bit of metal is going to seem much less useful. For self-defense purposes a knife is a horrible idea, unless you happen to be an urban ninja, or prone to pre-emptive strikes against anyone who might possibly be armed. One of my instrutors in the Marines put it succinctly "When a fair knife fight ends, you will have one dead man and one seriously wounded one." Of course, most of my training, armed and unarmed, was about how to make fights as unfair as possible in my favor.

JohnWarren -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 2:01:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sasseeNshy As a Canadian.........I think if you read all the posts, one will notice a common thread. While I appreciate and commend your respect for your country, I think, in my humble opinion, the one thing you forget most, is that other countries have pride as well. While I have respect for Americans, have always been treated well when I visit your country, there is quite frankly a whole world who doesn't see the devotion, the loyalty, the honour. Some humility is not out of order. We outsource humility. You Canadians handle it for us.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 3:11:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnWarren quote: ORIGINAL: sasseeNshy As a Canadian.........I think if you read all the posts, one will notice a common thread. While I appreciate and commend your respect for your country, I think, in my humble opinion, the one thing you forget most, is that other countries have pride as well. While I have respect for Americans, have always been treated well when I visit your country, there is quite frankly a whole world who doesn't see the devotion, the loyalty, the honour. Some humility is not out of order. We outsource humility. You Canadians handle it for us. If Canada didn't exist, it would have to be invented.

JohnWarren -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 8:08:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster quote: ORIGINAL: JohnWarren We outsource humility. You Canadians handle it for us. If Canada didn't exist, it would have to be invented. I believe South Park suggested Denmark as a Canada-substitute

Lucylastic -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 8:42:40 AM)
Im full of humbility Lucy

Alumbrado -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 8:54:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub On the bright side, I can't be charged with murder if I'm using a sword whereas a home owner who shoots an invader can sometimes be charged with murder - according to the lovely man who taught my college law and ethics class a few years ago anyway. I would be amazed if that were so... charges of murder depend on a situation meeting the elements of the crime, and I don't think the type of weapon used in a wrongful killing gives you a free pass.

bipolarber -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 1:15:08 PM)
Getting back to the original "survivalist" subject of this thread: Robert Heinlien (US R Admiral [ret.]) noted in one of his essays that, very rarely, does a period of more than 75 years pass in any particular geographical area, without some sort of disaster striking the population. It could be a war, it could be a tornado, an earthquake, or flood. Doesn't matter. Something could happen that will cut you off from help, that could leave you injured, and fending for yourself for days or possibly weeks on end. (Longer, if you are in the N.O. Superdome and you're depending on Bush to send help.) So, there is nothing "whacky" about preparing yourself for the likelihood of things falling apart. I keep about a month's worth of non-perishable food onhand. I keep at least a mid level first aid kit in my home, and some basic ones in my vehicles. (I try to keep over the counter antibiotics in the fridge as well) Candles. A wind up/solar radio. A NOAA radio. A gallon or two of drinking water stashed in the back of the kitchen pantry. A couple of cheap but sturdy plastic tarps, and a few coils of clothesline rope. I buy those large "candy corn" tin containers at yard sales to keep most of the stuff in, relatively weather and vermin proof. A good hunting knife. A limb saw and... yes... a gun with several boxes of ammo. ...and above all.... HAVE A PLAN. There's nothing in this list that is way too out of the ordinary. You can buy one or two items a month, any you'll never really notice it out of your budget... (except maybe the gun) but if the shit hits the fan, you'll be really glad you've got 'em. Just ask the folks in China, or in Burma, or the Tsunami victims, or the folks here in Damascus, AR., or the Colorado tornadoes, or the fires and mudslides in CA, or the folks displaced by Katrina, or.... (etc., etc...) I'm not advocating paranoia here... but neither am I advodcating being stupid, and unprepared.

JohnWarren -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 1:20:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber Robert Heinlien (US R Admiral [ret.]) While I'm a big fan of RAH (almost to the level of worshipper) I feel the need to point out that, while he was a ring-knocker from Canoe U, he received a medical discharge (not a retirement) while he was still a lowly single-ringer.

BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 1:46:44 PM)
Without a plan you are up the creek without a paddle,second is water,you can go for weeks without much food but the max is about 4 days without h2o, we keep at least 15 to 20 gallons on hand..We live on a mountain top so solar is in the future plans,We have 3 wells on the property and several ponds,In order to run the well pumps we have an emergency generator..guns a 22,shots gun and a high power hunting rifle,hand guns and good knife and an Axe,everyone sort of always forgets the axe...A plan goes up shit creek if you have to abandon your home so we have a small hideaway cabin deep in the woods,A windup radio to keep track of whats going on..We too have enough frezed dryed and canned food to last several months..Start small and add as you go along and pray that the need to use what we have never arises,peace upon us all..bounty

LadyEllen -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 2:00:43 PM)
My friend is totally convinced that within five years we'll be at the anarchy stage. As a gunsmith and former British Army armourer, he said he'd be alright as he'd make himself a gun. "what about ammunition?" I asked? "good point" he replied. So, if the shit does hit the fan, we'll be turning out with matchlock muskets, 12 gauge lead balls and gunpowder. And, subject to us not being killed by the criminals or the police (the only people here who have modern guns), we'll be OK. Well, as long as we dont blow ourselves up with the gunpowder, or have the guns explode on us, and we dont have to shoot more than about five times in a row before cleaning the whole thing and we manage to hit whatever we might be aiming at. E

TheHeretic -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 3:41:13 PM)
The whole, 'cabin in the woods with a year worth of food, water, and ammunition,' never really appealed to me. I'm not that self-sufficient, and doing the things I do well is largely wasted if nobody else benefits Got a dentist in there? An x-ray machine? I'd be heading for an isolated valley, where a friendly branch of the family tree is well-established. My actual need is most likely to be earthquake, with moderate/serious damage to my house. Water first and foremost. That direct supply could easily be out for weeks. I'd like to get up to a total supply of 100 gallons potable, and another 200 for animals/hygiene. A week worth of canned/non-perishable food. That's a case of tuna, and a big bag of rice, for those who say they don't have the money or space for a kit. Candles/flashlights, propane bottles for the cookstove. A crapload (pun intended) of plastic bags from the grocery store to line the toilet with. A good first aid kit, and safety equipment like gloves, a reflective vest, and work boots. Still to come is a kit of 2x4's, 4x4's, a few sheets of plywood and some heavy tarps for emergency house repairs. I'm not preparing for post-apocolyptic lifestyle, and if it comes to that, I'll take out some urban Rambo, who thought having $30,000 worth of guns and supplies in $60,000 worth of SUV was the same as being able to use them. I know right where I'll ambush the fucker too...

Padriag -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 4:45:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnSteed1967 Do you feel we are heading towards "Thunderdome" are we heading to a lawless society where people will do anything to get something to make them go? I think there are some people who want that for a variety of reasons. Some seem to think we deserve it as some sort of punishment for our collective communal "crimes". Some seem to want it because they think it will provide them with opportunity they don't have now. I'm sure there are other groups... I don't care to catalog them because frankly I just don't care about them. What I am sure of is that most of them wouldn't last 10 min in the world they imagine, and certainly wouldn't fair any better than they do now. What do I think will happen when Bush is out of office? A lot of rhetoric, a lot of smoke, and not much change out of the government. I don't like Bush Jr... but I know better than to blame him for everything. I also know that even if my personal preference for the office were elected, there is still only so much any president can do. Much authority is vested in Congress, they're at least as much to blame as any president. But as someone else said, real change will come from within... not from the government. Maybe I'm just biased because I'm an entrepreneur... maybe its too much Emerson... but personally I think it will be private individuals that will bring the most change. Some of it will come about simply because circumstance demands it. High gas prices will force change, it creates the opportunity for alternative forms of energy that weren't viable before. I expect that the coming years will likely see a deep recession / depression in the US. The sort of period when fortunes will be lost... and others made. Its not new, its happened before and it will happen again. I expect that the US will finally ween itself off oil, enduring a very painful transition that will bring with it a variety of new technologies. Things will change, change is inevitable, only its form, pace and timing are in question. Those smart enough will grow wealthy off that change and the opportunities it brings, some will lose wealth because they fail to adapt to that change, lots of people will simply endure it because they lack the ability to do anything else. I don't particularly care for a "Mad Max" sort of world, and I don't see it happening anytime soon. I'm much more optimistic about our future than that. But then again I rode with the Hell's Angels for six years, I'm opening a gun store in the near future, and I look pretty cool in my oilskin duster... I figure if the world does go "Mad Max" I'm already at an advantage. [8D]

MzMia -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 4:51:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnSteed1967 Just had to use the Iron Maiden Reference, but I just got finished reading an article that states more people are going "Survivalist" than ever before. They are stocking up on guns and food and eating locally grown foods, etc. Because they are expecting the economy to go belly up and there to be marauding bands like something out of Mad Max. I keep swords and daggers handy for personal protection, (No brady bill, no waiting period) But my question is: Do you feel we are heading towards "Thunderdome" are we heading to a lawless society where people will do anything to get something to make them go? OR do you believe, as I do that once Bush is removed from office that things will change and will with in a reasonable period revert to atleast semi normal I am so glad a similar thread is back, since the other one was sent to random stupidity land". MadMax and Thunderdome time? YouTube - Tina Turner - We Don't Need Another Hero We may be getting closer to this sort of society, than many of us want to admit.

bipolarber -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 4:59:51 PM)
Everyone keeps referencing "Max Max" or "Road Warrior" as the model for what a post-gasoline world is going to be like. Sorry, but none of that world makes the least bit of sense. Once you run out of gas, you are NOT going to be running around like angry ants trying to get more. No, you'll be using whatever resources you have to secure water and food, and things to burn in the winter. Probably, a much closer to reality representation for what might come our way would be the 1970's film "No Blade of Grass." In the short term, "Children of Men" is probably pretty close too... although really, I still think that "The Handmaid's Tale" is really what the GOP really wants for us all. After all, they keep pushing the religious nuts in Supreme Court positions, and they keep letting the churches have more and more federal funding, while ripping away more and more of women's right to control their own bodies.

JohnWarren -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 5:34:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag I don't particularly care for a "Mad Max" sort of world, and I don't see it happening anytime soon. I'm much more optimistic about our future than that. But then again I rode with the Hell's Angels for six years, I'm opening a gun store in the near future, and I look pretty cool in my oilskin duster... I figure if the world does go "Mad Max" I'm already at an advantage. [8D] Six years and no felony convictions! You're brighter than the run of that crowd. Congratulations

MzMia -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 5:44:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag I don't particularly care for a "Mad Max" sort of world, and I don't see it happening anytime soon. I'm much more optimistic about our future than that. But then again I rode with the Hell's Angels for six years, I'm opening a gun store in the near future, and I look pretty cool in my oilskin duster... I figure if the world does go "Mad Max" I'm already at an advantage. [8D] Padriag, not sure "how" it will turn out, but things are certainly changing. I don't think most of us expect "it" to be JUST like any movie. Wow, you rode with the Hell's Angels? awesome Yes, you would look hot in an oilskin duster, I hope I can get a discount at your store. [:D]

Padriag -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 5:55:28 PM)
Perhaps... though not so bright at the time to have wasted six years of my life that could have been better spent. A fact I'm painfully reminded of as I work twice as hard now to accomplish things I should have already done. Still, I learned lessons in those years I would probably have never learned otherwise... made some good friends, buried a few of them... and walked away one of the fortunate ones with only a few minor scars to show for it. I'm not sure if I was brighter or just lucky enough to have had a few Angels watching my back and sometimes shielding me from the worst of things because the saw in me what I no longer saw in myself. Life's a funny thing, sometimes it takes you places you never expected and teaches you things in ways you never imagined. If I sound ambivalent... I am... there is much about that time I regret... and much I still fondly miss... a curious paradox like so much of life. Perhaps that's why I'm so optimistic, my glass has always seemed to end up at least half full.

Padriag -> RE: Run for the hills..Run for your life.... (5/26/2008 6:09:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia Padriag, not sure "how" it will turn out, but things are certainly changing. Things are always changing. There is a line from the song Tom Sawyer that goes... "He knows changes aren't permanent... but change is." quote: I don't think most of us expect "it" to be JUST like any movie. True... if it did I'd pick something like... oh... I dunno... The Long Hot Summer. quote: Wow, you rode with the Hell's Angels? awesome Not really... I have very mixed feelings about that time in my life. I made some very good friends... and lost some. There were some great parties, and some terrible fights. I did some very foolish things... and survived my own stupidity. All things considered I got off easy... many of those friends are dead, all I have are a few scars. I would't recommend it to anyone... in fact I'd recommend most simply avoid it. Still, that time in my life shaped who I am now, made me a little stronger and I hope a little wiser... and taught me to appreciate the price paid for that experience, not all of which was paid by me. quote: Yes, you would look hot in an oilskin duster, I hope I can get a discount at your store. [:D] That is an oilskin duster in my profile photo... a relic of the past. As for the discount, I'm sure something could be worked out. How do you like your coffee?

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