RE: A Salute to Some

RE: A Salute to Some (Full Version)

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Hippiekinkster -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/27/2008 6:29:49 PM)
Mmmm, well, let's debunk that "spitting" muth, shall we? http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=215 http://www.slate.com/id/1005224/ http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1276799/posts

CelticPrince -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/27/2008 6:35:54 PM)
quote: Can't believe I'm siding with Ken, but the OP, intentionally or not, marginalized those for whom Memorial Day was meant. Memorial Day isn't 'I'm going to thank a vet' day, it isn't 'I know someone who served' day, it isn't 'someone in my family was a vet' day, it isn't 'I was gonna join up but I didn't' day. It isn't an 'I' or 'Meeee' day at all. It is about quiet, simple, rememberance for those who left their lives behind while wearing those uniforms. Alumbra, there was no slight at all. it was a salutation to service, I did not feel it necessary to dig into the past for decoration Day, Armistice Day and speciafically dead vet day. Technically there is an "Armed forces Day' that is set aside for living past and present service men and women. But who really pay any attention to that and ponders what they have given up. The salute was to all and I simply thought that any reader would understand it for what it was. I only wish that all the energy that has gone into this thread by some could be transfered into some silent thought for all. CelticPrince

Alumbrado -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/27/2008 6:38:52 PM)
Which is what I asked for in post #6.

CelticPrince -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/27/2008 6:44:00 PM)
quote: CelticLord: I'm sorry about what happened to this thread. This has been a trainwreck and not worthy of the original sentiments expressed. SirsHolly, thanks to you, and to your late husband; you have my sympathy, and my respect. I would hope that others would show the same respect, and not use this thread to post your political views, or to show that only you are smart enough to know what a holiday is for. I guess it's whatever you make of it, no? christina, thank you! CP

orfunboi -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/28/2008 5:15:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber atursvsMaam, Thanks! And back at you! And to everyone else, who got so uptight about my voicing my Constitutionally protected opinion of our disreputable leaders... sorry that you think dissent is somehow unpatriotic. To reiterate: I love the troops. But I don't love the liars who put them in harms way without sufficient, or even definable, reason. "A very few, as heroes, patriots, martyrs, reformers in the great sense, and men serve the state with their consciences also, and so necessarily resist it for the most part; and they are comonly treated as enemies by it." -Henry David Thoreau Civil Disobediance I dont think anyone suggested dissent was unpatriotic. In fact I think you should go make a whole thread on your feelings about Bush. (like we don't know what they are) Then you can rant and rave all you want without derailing someone elses thread. It's not really hard to discuss a subject without dragging GWB into things....well it's not hard for most people, seems impossible for you....so tell me, do you dream about him at night?

Irishknight -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/28/2008 5:33:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Mmmm, well, let's debunk that "spitting" muth, shall we? I'll trust the people I know who lived it rather than someone writing an article. You can't debunk someone else's real life experience with fancy words and studies. Fortunately, those being spat upon had to much of a sense of honor to kill those spitting. I think that the draft dodgers counted on that.

windchymes -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/28/2008 5:59:20 AM)
Personally, I think any veteran deserves appreciation EVERY day of the year, and I will continue to do so.

Alumbrado -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/28/2008 8:19:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Mmmm, well, let's debunk that "spitting" muth, shall we? I'll trust the people I know who lived it rather than someone writing an article. You can't debunk someone else's real life experience with fancy words and studies. Fortunately, those being spat upon had to much of a sense of honor to kill those spitting. I think that the draft dodgers counted on that. Debunking usually requires a higher standard than the 'We couldn't prove it didn't ever happen,' of those 3 articles. .

celticlord2112 -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/28/2008 8:22:38 AM)
quote: Debunking usually requires a higher standard than the 'We couldn't prove it didn't ever happen,' of those 3 articles. snort Ah, the irony......

Hippiekinkster -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/28/2008 9:03:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: ORIGINAL: Irishknight quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Mmmm, well, let's debunk that "spitting" muth, shall we? I'll trust the people I know who lived it rather than someone writing an article. You can't debunk someone else's real life experience with fancy words and studies. Fortunately, those being spat upon had to much of a sense of honor to kill those spitting. I think that the draft dodgers counted on that. Debunking usually requires a higher standard than the 'We couldn't prove it didn't ever happen,' of those 3 articles. . AFAIK, and bear in mind I read this I have no idea where, the other day, and thus cannot provide a citation, there has been only one documented case of "spitting". Now if anyone can find more DOCUMENTED CASES, I'll be happy to acknowledge my error, but until then, the burden of proof lies on those who claim it did happen.

Alumbrado -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/28/2008 9:08:31 AM)
Nope, the burden of proof is always on those making the extreme assertions... in this case, the extreme assertion that they can prove a negative. (Which the articles started off by admitting they could not... their failure doesn't shift the burden to someone else) One documented case and a no doubt inflated number of anecdotal cases, still trumps 'It never happened, but we can't prove it'. Logic 101, whether you like the results or not.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/28/2008 9:16:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado Nope, the burden of proof is always on those making the extreme assertions... in this case, the extreme assertion that they can prove a negative. (Which the articles started off by admitting they could not... their failure doesn't shift the burden to someone else) One documented case and a no doubt inflated number of anecdotal cases, still trumps 'It never happened, but we can't prove it'. Logic 101, whether you like the results or not. Anecdotes are not evidence. If it happened to the extent the myth claims, surely there would be a photograph, a story by a reporter, something to give some legs to the myth. Where is it? Surely out of all those guys who came through Oakland, someone caught a snapshot. Where is it?

Hippiekinkster -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/28/2008 9:35:20 AM)
" In 1998 sociologist and Vietnam veteran Jerry Lembcke published "The Spitting Image: Myth, Media and the Legacy of Viet Nam." He recounts a study of 495 news stories on returning veterans published from 1965 to 1971. That study shows only a handful (32) of instances were presented as in any way antagonistic to the soldiers. There were no instances of spitting on soldiers; what spitting was reported was done by citizens expressing displeasure with protesters. Opinion polls of the time show no animosity between soldiers and opponents of the war. Only 3 percent of returning soldiers recounted any unfriendly experiences upon their return." from the FreeRepublic article previously cited. THREE PERCENT! Wow! That's a tsunami of anti-vet hatred! The spitting was done to show disgust at the protesters, seems like.

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/28/2008 2:42:44 PM)
ill call your link and raise ya one... http://www.broowaha.com/article.php?id=2029 and we could probably do this all day....but the only thing that matters to me is i know my cousin was spit on right outside the san francisco airport when coming home.....so i dont care what any amount of links may say about it being true or false-its fact in my world. holly, my sincere thanks for the sacrifice your husband made. and as important the one you made, and continue to make every time you cry thinking what might have been. i can not even imagine what you have gone through.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/28/2008 2:50:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SeeksOnlyOne ill call your link and raise ya one... http://www.broowaha.com/article.php?id=2029 and we could probably do this all day....but the only thing that matters to me is i know my cousin was spit on right outside the san francisco airport when coming home.....so i dont care what any amount of links may say about it being true or false-its fact in my world. holly, my sincere thanks for the sacrifice your husband made. and as important the one you made, and continue to make every time you cry thinking what might have been. i can not even imagine what you have gone through. So linking to an opinion piece in some online fishwrapper by some clown named sanity check is some sort of proof? BWAA HA HA HA HA HA.

SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/28/2008 3:08:58 PM)
its as much proof as yours is..... neener neener

bipolarber -> RE: A Salute to Some (5/28/2008 3:56:21 PM)
Obviously, just saying "Thanks, troops! (dead or living) provokes a lot of emotions in people... so that pretty much wrapps it up for this "Americans are asleep at the wheel" bullshit. :)

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