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A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/26/2008 8:34:32 PM

Aneirin

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Maybe the ancients had it right from the start ?

see;

http://www.well.com/~aquarius/

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/26/2008 9:01:16 PM

faerytattoodgirl

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fear! homosexuality has been around since caveman times! so have us freaks of nature who are intersexed!

in fact we who are intersexed were worshiped by egyptians!

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/26/2008 9:10:39 PM

Leatherist

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I'd see a third sex as nulls.

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/26/2008 9:13:46 PM

phoenixinchains

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does that extend to someone that is steryl? or a woman that can't bare young?

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/26/2008 9:13:56 PM

DiurnalVampire

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If Eunuchs are a third sex, wouldnt then a homosexual eunuch only be attracted to other eunuchs?

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/26/2008 9:25:45 PM

Leatherist

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A null is a genderless person with no gonads at all.

like this: http://www.bmezine.com/service/samples/nullohigh/penec3.jpg

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/26/2008 9:30:33 PM

phoenixinchains

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sorry, tender subject. i get angry when people say you're not a woman if you can't have babies.
i'll leave y'all to this thread.

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/27/2008 5:41:23 AM

masternoname

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I will get the local slaves working on a pyramid straight away......

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/27/2008 8:12:59 AM

camille65

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quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenixinchains

sorry, tender subject. i get angry when people say you're not a woman if you can't have babies.
i'll leave y'all to this thread.

It could be that I'm just too tired to properly comprehend stuff at the moment, but I didn't see anything in this thread mentioning that someone isn't a woman because they can't breed??

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/27/2008 8:26:05 AM

Alumbrado

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I think you will find it came from the author of posts #4 and #7...

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/27/2008 12:16:45 PM

Aneirin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: phoenixinchains

sorry, tender subject. i get angry when people say you're not a woman if you can't have babies.
i'll leave y'all to this thread.

Sorry phoenixinchains if my post provoked ill feelings with you regards outdated attitudes to others. It also is with me a tender subject when applied to the opposite sex, you are not a man if....etc.

My wish for this post was to perhaps share some thoughtful writing based upon historical fact that people who choose alternative liasions, were in some ways reverred by the ancient civilisations and seen as valuable members of society. Something which our present civilisation has varying attitudes to. Those attitudes perhaps based upon fabrications created to gain power over others.

I found this website whilst researching that tender subject.

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/27/2008 1:00:33 PM

RCdc

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First, you should define what you mean by sex. Some are by chromosones, some define by organisms based on their reproductive roles - or the gamets they produce or would produce should they have the organs to do so whether or not they are active. For anyone to answer in an informed manner, you would have to make a clear definition.

And why confuse eunuchs with homosexuality? Whilst some eunuchs may have engaged in sexual activities with males, but this does not mean they are homosexual - or are you suggesting as some do that homosexuality is defined not by the emotions involved, but the act?

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/27/2008 1:06:57 PM

beargonewild

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To me, it makes more sense that homosexuality is defined by both the emotions and the act. I don't believe there is a quantitative value that can be placed on one or the other, my thoughts it's a combination of both and possibly inclusive of other factors.

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/27/2008 1:36:23 PM

MstrVik

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

And why confuse eunuchs with homosexuality?

I also found the ideas of this author confusing at first (I happened upon his website many years ago, and just had a quick look at it right now) but when I took the time to browse through some of it, I discovered that he has done an interesting piece of research. He argues that from ancient times the term 'eunuch' was used for men that was not sexually attracted/involved with women, and that it covered both what we term eunuchs today as well what we now term homosexual males.

He writes in his synopsis: 'The willingness to engage in homosexual activity (particularly intergenerationally) was widespread among men in the ancient Mediterranean region. Women and boys were considered equally tempting sex objects for those whom we would call heterosexual men. Therefore, homosexual activity could not have provided a means of distinguishing certain men as "gay" the way we do in the modern world. However, the ancients did differentiate based on an unwillingness or incapacity for heterosexual sex. Certain men were known to fundamentally lack arousal for sex with women, and men of this kind were distinguished from the majority of ordinary men on that basis. The innately and exclusively homosexual men of the ancient world inhabited the category of eunuchs. (...) Exclusively homosexual men, or eunuchs, to use the ancient term, were not considered "male," because maleness meant the aptitude to play the male role in procreative sex, which they lacked by definition. It had always been decent and respectable for an ordinary man, playing the insertive role, to have sex with an exclusively homosexual man (a non-male) as a passive partner, which is why so many Roman emperors had their eunuch lovers. Penetrating an exclusively homosexual man had not been considered a crime before -- the crime was penetration of a potentially heterosexual man, which was sometimes committed for the purpose of profoundly humiliating an adversary or helpless victim. Therefore, sodomy was a crime committed against "non-gay" men, and like its counterpart crime of adultery, it was committed by "non-gay" men.' http://www.well.com/~aquarius/#Home%202

Edited to say: I think the term 'third sex' is actually a bit misleading here, allthough I believe also Faris Malik applies it at times.

< Message edited by MstrVik -- 5/27/2008 1:45:07 PM >

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/27/2008 2:34:07 PM

RCdc

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I am familiar with Maliks study, but I was asking the OP why he confused eunuchs with homosexuality. Whilst the history of the word is undeniable, it's current modern usage and listing is far from as cut and dried... without knowing the answer from the OP, I do not feel I could answer the question and A knows me well, I won't answer without knowing the intent.

Personally, I do not see homosexuality as a 'sex' - but then I may not define sex in the same way as A does and again, I asked him for a definition on the term. But then I look at things like that as from a biological POV.

the.dark.

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/27/2008 2:36:43 PM

lusciouslips19

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quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

fear! homosexuality has been around since caveman times! so have us freaks of nature who are intersexed!

in fact we who are intersexed were worshiped by egyptians!

Admit it! You wont be happy till we start worshipping you!

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/27/2008 3:08:14 PM

MstrVik

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Aha! Well, didn't intend to interfere in your discussion there!

I will also be curious to see the OP's reply to that!

I agree that there can be a lot of definitions for the term 'sex' and I also don't see (what we today term) homosexuality as a 'sex'. -- Language has inbuilt limitations also, and whatever we 'name' is limited by the scope of the language applied. As also Malik's research shows. --- Biological - yeah, I get it (I think

) -- It seems to me as well that the majority of we today call eunuchs - those that Malik refers to as 'artificial eunuchs' - most likely didn't engage sexually with (other) men.

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/27/2008 3:17:00 PM

DomAviator

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Actually I would tend to agree that homosexuality requires an emotional attraction rather than just a sexual act. Look at prison rape, the British Royal Navy, and French men... Otherwise straight men, who when put in the right situation will bugger one another silly however, none of them are "Gay". (Well maybe the French! LOL) I mean honestly I dont think that crossing swords at an orgy for example makes you gay... Now if you invite the guy to dinner afterwards and give him a foot massage thats another ballgame.

My understanding of eunchs though is that they are sexless, not homosexual. Men who have chosen castration for a life of opulence in the castle tending to the harem... They may be straight as hell, and have the desires, but simply relinquished the organ in exchange for the keys to the palace. I see eunchs as more like catholic priests in a world without altar boys....

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RE: A third sex, eunuchs and homosexuality - 5/27/2008 3:32:37 PM

MstrVik

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

Actually I would tend to agree that homosexuality requires an emotional attraction rather than just a sexual act. (...) I mean honestly I dont think that crossing swords at an orgy for example makes you gay... Now if you invite the guy to dinner afterwards and give him a foot massage thats another ballgame.

Well pointed out. - Also one reason why I personally experience that the term homosexuality is 'misleading' in many ways. (And I don't think the term 'gay' is any better either.) There should be other, more differentiated terms, to describe the different experiences of it, and when it comes to emotional content also. I'm not sure the ancients had it right, but I think we can do better today than we currently do.

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