Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (Full Version)

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Level -> Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 6:39:07 PM)

quote:

Imagine for a minute, just a minute, that someone running for president was able to actually tell the truth, the real truth, to the American people about what would be the best — I mean really the best — energy policy for the long-term economic health and security of our country. I realize this is a fantasy, but play along with me for a minute. What would this mythical, totally imaginary, truth-telling candidate say?

Cynical ideas, like the McCain-Clinton summertime gas-tax holiday, would only make the problem worse, and reckless initiatives like the Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep offer to subsidize gasoline for three years for people who buy its gas guzzlers are the moral equivalent of tobacco companies offering discounted cigarettes to teenagers.

I can’t say it better than my friend Tim Shriver, the chairman of Special Olympics, did in a Memorial Day essay in The Washington Post: “So Dodge wants to sell you a car you don’t really want to buy, that is not fuel-efficient, will further damage our environment, and will further subsidize oil states, some of which are on the other side of the wars we’re currently fighting. ... The planet be damned, the troops be forgotten, the economy be ignored: buy a Dodge.”

No, our mythical candidate would say the long-term answer is to go exactly the other way: guarantee people a high price of gasoline — forever.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/28/opinion/28friedman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

What would you tell such a candidate?



Leatherist -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 6:40:29 PM)

Sacrifice is a good cure for greed and waste.



Phin -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 6:45:05 PM)

I do agree with the statements about dodge... but damn... I am already broke like a joke



Alumbrado -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 6:45:43 PM)

What would you tell such a candidate?

_____________________________



quote:

Prices are what they are as a result of rising global oil demand from India, China and a rapidly growing Middle East on top of our own increasing consumption, a shortage of “sweet” crude that is used for the diesel fuel that Europe is highly dependent upon and our own neglect of effective energy policy for 30 years.


To stop lying.

This is price fixing, plain and simple, and there are 2 solutions... stop buying until the prices drop, or jail time for price gougers.

I won't be holding my breath, but I'll be damned if I'll fall for this BS that the monopolies are being forced to raise prices against their will by mystical forces beyond their control.



petdave -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 7:41:22 PM)

Hm, going out on a limb and guessing that he lives in NYC, and has people to drive him wherever he needs to go, i think i'd have to pick "blow me". 



bipolarber -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 7:50:22 PM)

We have been dragging our feet on oil independance, and fuel efficiency for decades. Carter started an initiative during the OPEC manufactured crisis. Now, we're right back where we were in 1976! Reagan gutted the research into alternative energy. American auto makers stopped making smaller, fuel efficient cars and instead went into a war to build the biggest fucking SUVs they could.

We all could have been driving 50mpg cars and trucks already. But, the US is psychotic where energy is concerned: we keep making the same mistakes, but expecting things to get better each time. Sure, the OPEC crisis was the first time, now we have this crisis... but what about the one that will undoubtedly follow? Or the one after that? As we've found, all it takes is one or two headlines of some disaster to cause the price of gas to double. Our world is filled with such headlines.

If $4 a gallon is good for us as a nation, then $6 or $7, by that logic, will be a positive BOON. You'll forgive me if I can't get too excited about this upcoming "golden age."




Irishknight -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 8:25:41 PM)

I don't think I would say anything.  He doesn't deserve my time. 

The fact that we can make something good come out of this situation is true but it does not mean that the price gouging, record prodit making, oil companies are the ones doing good for us.  My town is seeing a rebirth of local business because we have to shop local.  We can't afford to drive an hour to shop anymore.  We're making that happen to work around this mess.  The mess isn't making it happen.



Alumbrado -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 8:29:46 PM)

Someone needs to speak out long and loud.. at $4 a gallon the convenient scapegoat is  'Its the SUVs'...
At $400 a gallon the scapegoats will be people.

And nobody it seems, has learned a damn thing from history.



Leatherist -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 8:32:28 PM)

If it makes the oil companies and speculators as evil to the general public-it's for the good. It usually takes a degree of anger and suffering for the apathetic american to be forced to get moving and make changes-but they will.



Leatherist -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 8:36:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Someone needs to speak out long and loud.. at $4 a gallon the convenient scapegoat is  'Its the SUVs'...
At $400 a gallon the scapegoats will be people.

And nobody it seems, has learned a damn thing from history.


It's investors speculating in oil futures that are driving the prices up. Supply and demand have nothing to do with it.



Irishknight -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 8:37:50 PM)

So we shoot all the speculators and gas prices go down?



Leatherist -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 8:40:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

So we shoot all the speculators and gas prices go down?


We quit driving like idiots and increase the supply. The market gets glutted, and it has a limited shelf life-profiteers lose money-they stop driving up the price. Break the bastards over thier own barrel. All it takes is carpooling and not planning things like forest gump.



Irishknight -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 8:49:01 PM)

I still like my idea but yours has merit too.  I think it would take a bit more than carpooling.  Combine grocery shopping with a trip to work.  Thats another big help.  Eliminate extra trips.
My truck only moves when I need to go get something heavy or haul a trailer.  The minivan still can't do that.  I have no need to carpool because I am self employed.  With a staff of 1, who am I gonna carpool with? 



Alumbrado -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 8:49:30 PM)

Is that sort of like when a bank is robbed, instead of arresting the robbers, 'we' should just be more frugal and increase the supply of money?
People need to quit driving like idiots and practice conservation for common sense reasons, not because of blame the victim mumbo-jumbo from the crooks.

The same people who were reaping obscene profits at $1 and at $2 a gallon are the ones artificially restricting the supply and price gouging where there is no real shortage....falling for the smoke and mirrors that this is caused by the consumers or by 'market forces' is beyond illogical.





Leatherist -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 8:51:38 PM)

I'm surprised that the government has not stepped in to impose regulation on it yet. Maybe after we get rid of "oil baron Bush"



popeye1250 -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 8:51:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

Hm, going out on a limb and guessing that he lives in NYC, and has people to drive him wherever he needs to go, i think i'd have to pick "blow me". 


Yup, Thomas Friedman one of the "elite" and "beautiful people" who "summer" in the Hamptons and Martha's Vinyard.
Gas could go up to $50 gal and it wouldn't bother them in the least.
But, they all know "what's good" for the Hoi Poloi!



Sanity -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 9:00:49 PM)


Britain and even Opec have announced that they're taking solid measures to combat this global problem:


quote:

The Government also announced plans to help improve fuel supplies by increasing North Sea oil production.

Ministers said the extra 70,000 barrels a day would help but acknowledged it was only part of a global equation....
Meanwhile, the world's leading producers say oil is too expensive and they plan to increase supplies.

A source at Opec said its 13 members were uncomfortable with the current price of crude, which last week hit a record $135 a barrel.

Based on present supply and demand, he said it should be fetching $60-$70 a barrel.Saudi Arabia said it would increase production.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91211-1317363,00.html



Meanwhile in the USA socialists are urging people to blindly shake their fists at those who are working hardest to deliver us the goods, while suing the bejeezus out of  anyone who dares even think about drilling in any of our new found massive oil fields off either coast or in the Gulf of Mexico or in Alaska, or even exploring the possibility of processing the huge shale reserves or tapping into the many vast natural gas fields out west.

Nuclear? Are you kidding? Let's just cry and moan instead. It won't solve anything, but at least the tree huggers will stay off our backs. Granny will freeze next winter, and the kids in Bangledash might starve, but at least we're going green. You know?



Alumbrado -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 9:06:09 PM)

quote:

Meanwhile in the USA socialists are...



I rest my case.



popeye1250 -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 9:07:19 PM)

And there's no "shortage" either.
You can get all the gas you want,...for a price.
Want to see prices plummet? Ration it!



Sanity -> RE: Thomas Friedman: $4 a gallon is good for us (5/28/2008 9:09:09 PM)

Democrats in Congress have made all new drilling illegal. Strictly forbidden.

Put that in your case, while you're resting...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

Meanwhile in the USA socialists are...



I rest my case.



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