All men are created equal (Full Version)

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mistoferin -> All men are created equal (5/31/2008 5:44:00 AM)

What do you think was the intended meaning of the phrase? Do you think that all men really are equal? And in what respect?



FullCircle -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 5:45:51 AM)


All men are born equal but some are born more equal than others.
Means nothing in a monarchy or a capitalist world with inherited wealth or a dictatorship.
It seems it means very little to anyone.



slaveboyforyou -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 5:58:10 AM)

The phrase comes out of the Enlightenment.  Simply put, it was a rejection of monarchism.  It was a rejection of the idea that God put certain men on the Earth to rule over others.  It doesn't mean all men are equal in intelligence or equal in capability.  It means that all men have natural rights bestowed upon them at birth.  No one has a god given right to rule.

The intended meaning from the Founding Fathers was to give white males the right to govern themselves and the freedoms necessary to do so.  Note that I said white males; because blacks, women, and American Indians weren't considered part of the "all men" stipulation. 



bipolarber -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 6:13:08 AM)

It also means that the society they were working toward gave an equal opportunity to exccel to each man, (actually, it should be all people are created equal, but they took things only as far as their limited world would allow them.) So, we're still working on that ideal.

If this were not true, our world would be rife with people who rise to power just because their families were wealthy, and have forged connections within polititcs... like the... er.. Bushes... or the Kennedys... hummm... Well, Like I said, we're still working on it.



Aileen1968 -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 6:26:34 AM)

Absolutely not.  Some are only four inches.  Some are nine.
Some have girth.  Some don't.



kdsub -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 6:26:59 AM)

I believe it has a very simple meaning…All men, meaning mankind, have equal standing under the law of the new land. There are no castes or kings.
Butch



mindfullyYours -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 6:33:22 AM)

i think the important word is "created".  Everyone has the same chance to screw up their own lives but they start out with the same basics as well; the key one being life.  While they're alive they have a chance to do something with their lives. Once they're dead, they're once again on equal footing.

-disclaimer - that was fully intended to make sense. any similarity to not making sense is the product of an early morning and no coffee and my own chance to screw up my posting.   -respectfully  mY



lusciouslips19 -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 6:38:23 AM)

They may be created equal but they dont have the same advantages. I doubt a child born in Darfur has the sme advantages as someone who is born in the U.S.



mistoferin -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 6:44:39 AM)

In another thread this morning Aneirin wrote:

quote:

But maybe the realisation that the society we have built up is serving no other purpose than to create division and fragment us further.   


I believe that we are divided and fragmented by society. But I don't believe that we all start on equal footing. We are divided by heredity, race, geography, circumstance, physical ability, intelligence, morality, conscience, mental ability, time in which we are born and about a million other variables. Many of those variables start from the moment of conception, so the only conclusion that can be drawn is that all men are not created equal at all.




rulemylife -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 6:48:46 AM)

"No one has a god given right to rule."


Huh?  What?  You haven't been paying attention to what our heroic leader says:

Bush says God chose him to lead his nation | World news | The Observer
Nov 2, 2003 ... President George W. Bush stood before a cheering crowd at a ... Bush said to
James Robinson: 'I feel like God wants me to run for President. ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/nov/02/usa.religion - 56k - Similar Pages
sbm("rn_1");
  Hope that clears everything up, because if "Dubya" says it then it MUST be true. 



Aneirin -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 6:50:05 AM)

In an ideal world all are created equal and therefore are equal. We have created a far from ideal world.

If in various poorer parts of the world, one has to ask, why are people suffering so, surely throughout their nation's history they did not always suffer so, there has to be a reason.

Be that reason as in the case of lands once fertile and forrested, why is it now infertile and largely unforrested, was it the greed of others that depleted the land ?



kdsub -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 7:00:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

In another thread this morning Aneirin wrote:

quote:

But maybe the realisation that the society we have built up is serving no other purpose than to create division and fragment us further.   


I believe that we are divided and fragmented by society. But I don't believe that we all start on equal footing. We are divided by heredity, race, geography, circumstance, physical ability, intelligence, morality, conscience, mental ability, time in which we are born and about a million other variables. Many of those variables start from the moment of conception, so the only conclusion that can be drawn is that all men are not created equal at all.




I don’t think where you start from is the point. It is equal opportunity that counts. Taking advantage of opportunity is easier with the privilege of money… but every day in America the poor and disadvantaged throw off the circumstances of their births and better their lives.

From welfare to riches is not a fairytale ...with hard work and some luck anyone can do it in America. Because of the wisdom of our forefathers and the constitution it is easier here in the US then most anywhere in the world. This is the  true significance of “All men are created Equal”

Butch



atursvcMaam -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 7:06:42 AM)

The phrase says "created" equal.  That means that, starting out, you have a chance.  Stealing an old friend's thought, "every day is a blessing, no day is a promise."   Just because you have a chance, does not mean that you automatically win or succeed.  (try cleaning up torn up tickets at a horse race, or outside of a lottery store).  Where you go from there depends on your drive, your skills, the skills of those around you, your ability to demonstrate your skills, drive and ability in an appropriate showcase, and luck.  all things considered, the 3 contenders for the highest office in the land are an old fart, a woman and an African-american gentleman.  My inclination is that opportunities exist.  The rest is up to the individual, equality is not promised after one takes their second breath.



FullCircle -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 7:08:22 AM)

Anyone can make anything of themselves anywhere, I don't see that as being specific to the US and never have. Also there are so many legal cases I can point out where being rich has been an advantage in terms of the lawyers you can afford. So the idea that the law is blind to wealth is also ridiculous. 



farglebargle -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 7:10:10 AM)

I don't think you can really understand it w/o it's full context.

“ We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."




atursvcMaam -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 7:19:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

In an ideal world all are created equal and therefore are equal. We have created a far from ideal world.

If in various poorer parts of the world, one has to ask, why are people suffering so, surely throughout their nation's history they did not always suffer so, there has to be a reason.

Be that reason as in the case of lands once fertile and forrested, why is it now infertile and largely unforrested, was it the greed of others that depleted the land ?



i have a degree of sympathy with this, however, what keeps them from seeking more fertile areas, or restoring their current lands to its prior pristine state?  i do realize that there are matters of social and economic limitations.  Lemmings will run off a cliff together, but a horse will try to flee a burning barn.



kittinSol -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 7:31:09 AM)

[8|]



FullCircle -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 7:32:20 AM)

If the barn is near a cliff them horses are fucked.[8|]



mistoferin -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 7:34:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam
The phrase says "created" equal.  That means that, starting out, you have a chance. 


Does the man who is born blind or without limbs have the same chance? Some are at a disadvantage before they are even born.



atursvcMaam -> RE: All men are created equal (5/31/2008 7:37:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

If the barn is near a cliff them horses are fucked.[8|]


on the other hand if they hang around an area long enough though they will likely refertilize it.  Horse manure works well for that.  either that or they will find a greener pasture. 



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