living expenses

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sweetieboop -> living expenses (7/23/2004 3:20:22 PM)
I don't understand why Masters don't feel that "all living expenses provided" is a necessity when trying to aquire a slave. If you want to own someone, then you need to be responsible for them, IMHO. Living expenses doesn't mean anything the slave WANTS you to buy her, it means anything she NEEDS. If you want someone to come live in your house, take care of your wants and needs, and do as you say, then don't you have the responsibility to take care of them and provide for them?

perverseangelic -> RE: living expenses (7/23/2004 3:28:44 PM)
Ok, so I'm not a Master or Mistress, but I don't think that to own someone one must provide for that person, espeically financially. I belong to my partner. I take care of myself. I don't think everyone wants someone who is dependant in ALL ways. Even people who take a slave into their house don't necessarially want someone who they have to provide for, monitarially. The most sucessful family I know consists of a Mistress who owns 2 boys, and one of her boy's girl. All of them have outside of the house jobs, and provide collectivly for the family's maintence. I believe that an owner of slaves must provide emotionally for his/her slaves and that that should be a given in relationships (IMHO, of course). However, I personally think financial obligations are up for negotiation between partners, and that live-in, full-time service doesn't pre-empt having a job and being economically self sufficient.

sweetieboop -> RE: living expenses (7/23/2004 3:35:20 PM)
Let me be more specific. If you want a slave that does not work outside the home. You consider the slave's job to take care of you and your home. I'm talking about 24/7 slave, not a sub.

angelthighhighs -> RE: living expenses (7/23/2004 3:57:58 PM)
now a days with the price of things and the fact that many households need to be two income households to be able to cover expenses i would think it hard for just one person to be able to totally pay everything and provide on their own. unless of course they have a good job. but, if a Dominant expects their slave to stay home and to do everything needed to take care of them they better be able and expect to pay for all expenses in my opinion. perhaps they ought to make sure they can handle that responsiblity...if not arrangements need to be made ie letting the slave work.

perverseangelic -> RE: living expenses (7/23/2004 10:16:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sweetieboop I'm talking about 24/7 slave, not a sub. So am I. I'm simply talking about one that works outside the home. With your qualifications, then it definatly is the Dominants job to support his/her slave. If he/she doesn't want that person to have another means of support, he/she darn well be ready, willing, and able to provide everything from food to dental insurance.

MrThorns -> RE: living expenses (7/25/2004 11:43:07 PM)
I have a slave...I own her...we are in a 24/7 relationship. I do not want her to be dependent on me. Too many people confuse slavery with dependency. Why would I possibly want a slave who is dependent on me for everything she needs? What happens when the relationship falls apart? How will she exit the relationship when she has absolutely nothing? I do not feel it is a necessity to provide for every need a slave has, unless it is something that I had agreed to as part of our negotiations. I don't automatically assume that I will be taking on all of a slave's financial responsibilities. I mean...was she in debt prior to coming into the relationship? Why am I responsibile for her irresponsibility? I'll post more later...Me thinks this one is hitting a nerve or two. ~Thorns

MzBerlin -> RE: living expenses (7/25/2004 11:58:29 PM)
perverseangelic- I agree with you. It depends on what the dynamic demands. If a dominant said to me "I want you to live with me, take care of me, and spend all of your time doing it in some way and you won't have time to work outside the home but I want you to come with enough cash to support yourself" I would run. That's ridiculous. It's not feasible. If the dominant said that he/she would provide the basics (basics=what is necessary for me to be reasonably comfortable) and followed through with that, that's a totally different story. As Always- Berlin later that day, in Gotham City- I would like to add something. We're dealing with definitions when we use the word 'slave'. If you want a clearer answer, then please define your definition of 'slave.' I hope to eventually find a dynamic where I can be a 'slave' in common (middleground) terminology. For example- Personally, I would like to have a job of some sort. Even if it was inside the home. I like to work. Perhaps that is because I have a job I like, but whatever. I would do volunteer work or be socially active within my community even if I wasn't allowed to work. That is just somehting I need. Does the fact that I'm contributing financially make me NOT a slave or a better slave or a horrible slave? Does the fact that I'm spending time away from my owner make me a better slave or a badder one? It depends on what the dominant has to offer financially (I know, money is so unromantic. I'm sorry, but it's necessary to discuss if you're dealing with a TPE relationship). It depends on what the dominant wants and what my needs are and so on and so forth. It, ultimately, rests on the dynamic between the two (three, four, eleven?) people involved. Hope I haven't been TOO repetitive. See y'all later. Same bat time, Same bat channel [:D] Berlin

Sundew02 -> RE: living expenses (7/26/2004 12:34:00 AM)
I would concur with the statements made that in this day and age a slave has to help out with expenses. Do you actually believe a Dominant is an sugar tit? I for one provide housing, security, and my attention. I think it is a very rare dominant that could provide you with ALL your needs, the cost of health care alone would make living a pay check to pay check existence. Also if you don't work or have a source of income, what happens to you if the Dominant releases you or dies? If you have the skills to be a slave, then you should be employable vanilla. Even if it is a part time job. Good grief, the dominant would have to work two jobs to support the slave, when do you think they would have time to BE your Mistress/Master? Sundew

Leonidas -> RE: living expenses (7/26/2004 12:45:49 AM)
I'll start by saying that I'm very much in the minority here on issues of slave ownership. In fact, I'm probably not representative of anyone here but me. Yes, when a master takes ownership of a slave, the care, feeding, and socialization of that slave become his responsibility. Slaves are property, and a decent man takes care of the valuable property that he owns, whether that is a car, a home, or a human being. That said, some men do send their slaves to work outside the home. There is nothing wrong with that, as far as I'm concerned. A slave is his or her master's property, to do with as they see fit. I personally have owned slaves that I kept home, doing the work of the house, and I have owned slaves that had professions outside the house. It is incumbant on a good master to manage his slave in such a way that they are of the greatest value. For some slaves, that means having a career. For others it might not. These kinds of issues are relatively simple to sort out if a slave is thought of, in the classical sense, as valuable human property. I think of them that way, and so for me issues like this are fairly cut and dried. I think that you'll find that, as with many terms here, "slave" can mean just about anything depending on who you ask. Take care of yourself Leonidas

MrThorns -> RE: living expenses (7/26/2004 7:24:08 AM)
...After a good night's sleep and a few cups of coffee...I continue... I will agree with those that have said that if a slave is coming into my house and I expect her to stay at home and attend to my every need.. I would care for her financially. I know quite a few households that do work like this. My slaves work. If they were not to work, then I would expect them to be doing something productive, such as going to school, learning a trade, making toys, volunteering for charity...something besides doing her household duties. I see one of my responsibilities as a slave's Master...is teaching her how to care for herself. To give her strength in the areas she is weak. If I have a girl that has problems balancing a checkbook...I think it's my responsibility to teach her how to manage her finances. Not make her problems go away by paying for her mistakes. I think my little emotional display in my first post, is due to the fact that many people confuse slavery with dependence. Not having any responsibility. (I'm a slave...Master is responsible for me.) Bullshit. slaves, like any other adult... are responsible for their actions. If they are disobedient...its because they choose to be disobedient. If they are bratty...they are making a choice to be so. If they are dependent on their dominant for their every need... that is also their choice. I think it is unfair to just assume that all dominants will or should take care of every need that a slave has. Is that what TPE is? Not in any definition I have ever heard of. Now before I get flamed by anyone... Do I take responsibility for the health and welfare of my slave? Yes. Was that part of our deal...yes. Will I let her get into financial trouble and not help her out if she needs financial assistance? No. Will she be held accountable for getting in trouble financially? Hell yes. ~Thorns

ScorpioMaster -> RE: living expenses (7/26/2004 9:40:33 AM)
The issue of providing financial should have been made clear before you moved in. I know I am not a rich man and the way things are now days the slave I will have to move in would need to have a job too. The economy is so tight now days it make it hard to meets the needs. I know of one house who has a poly relationship and more than one slave and they all have to work to bring in money into the house hold and the master determine the amount they will need when they need it.

Sinergy -> RE: living expenses (7/26/2004 9:42:16 AM)
Hello MrThorns, Sounds pretty much the way I do things with my partner. She is there to care for me, I am there to care for her, but I want both of us to be better and more capable when/if we leave than we are when we start. Just me, could be wrong, but there you go. Sinergy

sweetieboop -> RE: living expenses (7/26/2004 5:27:43 PM)
I am a slave that does not work. I do however, collect disability so I have insurance and some income. I didn't mean to get anyone angry by my curiosity. I thumb through ads sometimes and I noticed that a lot of "Masters" say they want a slave to live with them and not work. Yet they don't check off "living expenses provided." I was just wondering why people do that. I'm not saying that I expect anything from anyone. I'm more than capable of taking care of myself and I do contribute to the household. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding. ;)

MrThorns -> RE: living expenses (7/26/2004 6:00:20 PM)
sweetieboop, Thank you very much for the clarity about this subject. Did it strike a nerve with me? Yep. But don't apologize for that...my issue, I'll deal. Its a good topic. as far as the "living expenses provided" box... I don't check it because I don't want someone assuming that I will automatically take responsibility for all of their finances. If that is what gets negotiated...fine. Take care, Thorns

Thanatosian -> RE: living expenses (7/26/2004 11:26:24 PM)
quote: as far as the "living expenses provided" box... I don't check it because I don't want someone assuming that I will automatically take responsibility for all of their finances. If that is what gets negotiated...fine. Amen brother. That is the reason I did not check that box as well - living expenses (hell all living arrangements for that matter) will be negotiated about along with everything else that gets negotiated Apply usual caveats here

ShadowHwk -> RE: living expenses (7/27/2004 1:56:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sweetieboop I don't understand why Masters don't feel that "all living expenses provided" is a necessity when trying to aquire a slave. If you want to own someone, then you need to be responsible for them, IMHO. Living expenses doesn't mean anything the slave WANTS you to buy her, it means anything she NEEDS. If you want someone to come live in your house, take care of your wants and needs, and do as you say, then don't you have the responsibility to take care of them and provide for them? sweetieboop, First I might caution you to not generalize and lump every Master into one group. You’re touching on a complex issue. If you have run into a Master who wants you to live in his house 24/7 without working outside the home, and doesn’t want to handle the financial responsibility of this arrangement, I would venture that he is living in a fantasy world. How would he expect you to pay your way? Is he only seeking slaves who have achieved complete financial independence? Maybe he really is searching for those that have recently won the lottery. If that is the case then I am guessing he is more of a slug and less of a master. Very few households in this day and age can support a non-contributing adult who is unwilling to help provide at least some form of support. On the other hand, if you expect that because you’re a slave that you shouldn’t have to contribute to “common good” of the household by holding a job or providing some source of support – your search may be very long indeed. Peace and Light Terry

Asmodeus -> RE: living expenses (7/27/2004 8:47:35 PM)
What happens to an owned slave when their Owner dies? Do you expect them to become part of the property of the estate? I could easily afford to keep slaves and maintain them; the issue however is one of conditional dependence. I would want them dependant upon me for all things, yet I understand the realities of life; they need to be able to make their own way in the world. I've met more that one M/s couple where the slave did not work outside the home. I'm also in an age bracket where people are known to drop dead from working too hard. I know of at least two of these couples where the Master died and the slaves ended up on the street, having to fend for themselves. In at least one case I know that the Master attempted to provide for his slave in his will. His children contested the will and his slave of 7 years ended up with a few thousand dollars and no place to live or any current skills. Understand the obligation you take on when you pull someone out of the world; you need to be responsible not just for the 'now', but for their future, as well.

cheeba0228 -> RE: living expenses (7/28/2004 8:17:17 AM)
There is a fine line a slave and Master will walk between being dependant on a Dom or Master and being a parasite. If being a slave is your only job and taking care of a person and his/her posessions is your only duty then I think you have it a little easy. Most people cannot live on a single income right now so while they split the cost of living they also split the maintenance and upkeep of their home/apartment/or whatever. Being a slave or hard sub is no excuse for being lazy nor is being a Master if the only reason a person gets into the lifestyle is to find someone to bend over for their every wish they need to reconsider because they are lazy a Master is just as much of a devotion as being a sub.

ShadowHwk -> RE: living expenses (7/28/2004 8:55:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Asmodeus What happens to an owned slave when their Owner dies? Do you expect them to become part of the property of the estate? I could easily afford to keep slaves and maintain them; the issue however is one of conditional dependence. I would want them dependant upon me for all things, yet I understand the realities of life; they need to be able to make their own way in the world. I've met more that one M/s couple where the slave did not work outside the home. I'm also in an age bracket where people are known to drop dead from working too hard. I know of at least two of these couples where the Master died and the slaves ended up on the street, having to fend for themselves. In at least one case I know that the Master attempted to provide for his slave in his will. His children contested the will and his slave of 7 years ended up with a few thousand dollars and no place to live or any current skills. You have raised several very good points. The biggest one, at least from my point of view, is that in our current legal system a "slave" really has no legal standing when it comes to inheritance or estate law. Though the common-law marriage statues that are on the books in most states MIGHT apply they are not a guarantee by any means. Having given this some thought in recent years, a tactic I would use would be to establish a bank account in the slave’s name. Create an automatic monthly payment to this account… whatever amount seems reasonable – this becomes the slaves “emergency fund”. If the slave also works outside the home a portion of that income should also be set aside into the same account. While your living, or until you release him or her, that money is not to be touched. Should something happen, whether it be the death of the Master/Mistress or a parting of the ways – this gives the slave a foothold and some resources to fall back on. This does not mitigate the need for adequate life insurance with the slave listed as the beneficiary, but would serve to tide him/her over until the insurance settlement comes through. Further, a slave should be educated. That means attending classes. An educated, well-rounded slave is an asset. If those classes teach a useable skill set – so much the better. And yes, I realize that attending classes and seeing to homework would make the slave marginally unavailable during certain periods, but I believe the rewards in the long run outweigh the short-term inconvenience. Many universities offer online programs and courses of study. These would be worth consideration in circumstances where the slave is to be kept isolated. Just my .02 Terry

sweetieboop -> RE: living expenses (7/28/2004 3:30:09 PM)
quote: First I might caution you to not generalize and lump every Master into one group. Sorry Sir. I didn't mean to say ALL Masters. I guess I should have written, "a lot of people whom claim to be Masters on their profiles."

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