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RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 10:49:57 AM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		The problem with the idea is that it's pretty futile in many cases,habit and thought patterns are ingrained. And I have seen instances where they actually manage to change someone to an ideal they only THOUGHT they wanted,then weren't satisfied with that, because THEY had changed.

Kinda screwed up,why not just find a person you like to begin with?

And accept the imperfections,rather than try to stamp them out?

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 10:58:06 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaTop
Kinda screwed up,why not just find a person you like to begin with?

Well there is a balance here, as with all things.

Happy healthy people are not stagnant. We want to grow, change, improve, and we choose relationships with people who WILL help us acheive that. This is usually someone who is compatible in key areas, but not necessarily your clone.
quote:


And accept the imperfections,rather than try to stamp them out?

Well there's a line between accepting imperfections and refusing to grow and become better. M/s relationships usually have elements of training to them, changing the slave.

Not necessarily molding them into your own little pet, but training to do things different, the way the dom wants. I think it's acceptable and even advisable in a M/s situation. I mean it would be truly awesome if I were perfect and required no training, but I know that's not the case.

My dom isn't rejecting me by training me to do things differently.

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 11:18:04 AM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		But that's really just learning routines and prefferences.

Not about totally changing over a core personality.

What would you do if the Owner suddenly decided that you were both now exclusive?

No play buddies,nada,cut off. Could you handle it?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 11:38:55 AM   
Wolfie648


Posts: 600
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I often see this thing about "molding a sub" expressed by Dominants. I've even tried it myself in the past-before I realized it simply doesn't work in the majority of cases.


Their reply:

Most people - I don't f--king think so
Submissive - maybe or sometimes
Slave - yes
Brat - make me

That's sort of tongue in cheek but I thought it an interesting perspective.

quote:

In time, I got over it. What do you think about the idea that desperation can drive one to make poor choices in partners-thinking you can "fix" them to be better ones?


Absolutely desperation can influence one to make a bad decision.

Thinking you can fix someone implies that they are defective. Would you buy a defective car? Maybe if you're a mechanic.

D (owner of j)



_____________________________

Possibly.

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 11:39:00 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaTop

But that's really just learning routines and prefferences.

Not about totally changing over a core personality.

Isn't that really the crux of it right there? That difference between compromising on unimportant things; and refusing to compromise on what is important, on those things that are core values.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Happy healthy people are not stagnant. We want to grow, change, improve, and we choose relationships with people who WILL help us acheive that. This is usually someone who is compatible in key areas, but not necessarily your clone.

This echoes something else I was pondering just the other day. I am often attracted to women who are in some ways my opposite... despite the fact that they sometimes drive me nuts because of that! If you've ever watched the TV series Dharma and Greg... I'm Greg... a lot of the women I've dated are Dharma. But there are important common grounds there as well... all of those women shared some of the interests and values important to me... like family, enjoying the outdoors, books & learning, being artistic or musical (creativity in some form). These commonalities bring us together, but their differences challenge me to keep growing as a person... and I like that. Without those "Dharma's" in my life I tend to grow cynical and combative towards the world... they help keep alive my optimism and an almost child like wonderment at the universe. That's good for me, that's my balance.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 12:27:41 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

What do you think about the idea that desperation can drive one to make poor choices in partners-thinking you can "fix" them to be better ones?

Do these settling arrangements ever really work out?
I disagree that one needs to be desperate to make poor choices when choosing a partner.
I agree that there are psychosocial factors influencing why we do what we do. In the past, I've been very much guilty of dating/marrying men who were clearly a mess on many levels, thinking that if I just loved them enough/gave them the type of acceptance and love they say they'd never received, they would start to trust and allow selves to love and be loved. I do now accept that one has to be a lil crazy to deal with that kind of drama, and have given it up (I think completely).

Do the settling arrangements work? Some people are patient enough to stay with a parasite for 10-20-50years, I can usually tell I'm miserable within 6months, and actively seek to change the situation, or dispose of an impossible problem for my non-psychiatrist self to deal with soon thereafter. Nowadays, I can recognize a potential problem from a mile away, lol.
Hope that answers.... M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 12:32:34 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		Parasite is a good way to put it, you can't fix the unfixable.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 12:33:19 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Not about totally changing over a core personality.
I don't believe core personalities can/should be changed.
That is precisely why I tell whomever I date to simply be himself, because I want to see natural behavior/responses to situations, rather than sugarcoated ones, as that would determine for me the type of person I am able to get along with/care for in the long run. Don't get me wrong, I do think we all need to modify behavior a slight amount depending on where we are and what we are doing, but that I don't believe has much to do with core values/beliefs; I believe that has more to do with what one has come to learn is couth.
There are those who are too insecure to be their bad selves, in which case one simply has to wait, watch and listen. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 12:42:28 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I hear MANY more male tops talk about "training" (and the inevitable "punishment") than females. So often, I have to stop myself from asking why they don't just get a dog, rather than a human companion.

I've often said that you can change your behavior, but you can't change your SELF. I can encourage a submissive to do things in ways that please me, but that whole silk purse from a sow's ear thing will come into play if I have made a wildly wrong choice. Everyone has their levels of skill, let alone comfort. It's possible to help a person become fantastic at their own level---I think it's unreasonable to try and force everyone into that same mold.

I've been down the rescuer path---I am a caretaker by nature, and I have had training and experience with dealing with learning and emotional problems. What I found out FAST was that dealing with those problems at work was far different from a d/s situation. My resolution: No More Monsters!

Ms Francine

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 12:50:00 PM   
MasterRobert1


Posts: 225
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, people make poor choices. Even Doms make poor choices. But, that is a separate issue from the subject of "molding a sub", doing a sub makeover, et cetera. I think there are subs who want to be "molded". And that's the rub. It is somethign to be discussed and negotiated. Not simply assumed. A Dom is supposed to improve the sub, expand her/his horizons, help them to be a better person. It can be part of being a Dom/Master.

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 12:59:54 PM   
Guildenstern


Posts: 24
Joined: 9/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaTop

I often see this thing about "molding a sub" expressed by Dominants. I've even tried it myself in the past-before I realized it simply doesn't work in the majority of cases. And that it was more my ego ,and the lack of really good matches that drove me to that attitude.

In time, I got over it. What do you think about the idea that desperation can drive one to make poor choices in partners-thinking you can "fix" them to be better ones?

Do these settling arrangements ever really work out?


I suppose it depends on what 'molding' means to you. fixing people as ES pointed out is either really hard/impossible or long term (depending on what is being 'fixed')

I will say this though, I have seen (and been a part of) a personality being drasticly changed and reshaped. The process called thought reform, more commonly known as brainwashing does work, but I would not ever ever ever ever recomend it. it too is a long term ordeal, unpredictable, and never a good idea. I have seen people do things that go against everything in their own/old personality/self concept/intrinsic values. ( I am talking outside the realm of BDSM, but it would pretty much be the same inside it, just more dangerious)


behaviour can be conditioned, opperate conditioning is fun. Still if it isnt going to work out because of a personality conflict it is much better to either figure out if it can be accepted/delt with or say your goodbyes




_____________________________

Sweet are the uses of adversity, which, like a toad, though ugly and venomous, wears yet a precious jewel in its head.

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 1:15:55 PM   
Guildenstern


Posts: 24
Joined: 9/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lonewolf05



same as in THIS lifestyle.
people can only TRY!

no one is absolutely perfect..dommes-doms--subs-slaves...male--female..young ..old...
it is just nice for ME that MY Mistress understands this and allows me to BE me........and She is herself.....as is Her hubby.

my advice..........from D/s view AND vanilla life........everyone just be careful and get away from all that hoo for all s/m stuff FIRST and concentrate on daily REAL life...if THAT clicks.........."I" think the rest comes in line easier....

just MY 2 cents...

Owned and Operated..........by Ms Laura.........R/T...

the happy ole woofie






Well said...

_____________________________

Sweet are the uses of adversity, which, like a toad, though ugly and venomous, wears yet a precious jewel in its head.

(in reply to lonewolf05)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 1:42:46 PM   
Kasia


Posts: 442
Joined: 6/25/2005
From: The Coast of Adria
Status: offline 		Must it always be "in reply to someone " when I hit the reply button?

Ok, in reply to none, but my general opinion - I truly hate people who try to change people. Either you accept someone the way he/she is, either you dont. You just dont go around accepting people based on what you think they might become if you push/nag/bore them enough.

I had 17 years of that sort of life. I was never good enough, I never loved him enough, I never cared enough. And when I said "Ok, I am not good for you so go and find someone who is"..... and asked for divorce..... suddenly I was "the perfect one just the way I am", he wanted me back "on any condition", and "he will do anything I want if I just stayed with him".
I told him to go and screw himself. And I am not sorry. I am sorry I spent 17 years of my life on manipulative prick.

< Message edited by Kasia -- 10/26/2005 1:43:39 PM >

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I DO have profile - just lost an S somewhere along the way

Kassia

(in reply to Guildenstern)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 1:53:09 PM   
MadameDahlia


Posts: 2021
Joined: 8/11/2004
From: SoCal aka Hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaTop

I often see this thing about "molding a sub" expressed by Dominants. I've even tried it myself in the past-before I realized it simply doesn't work in the majority of cases. And that it was more my ego ,and the lack of really good matches that drove me to that attitude.

In time, I got over it. What do you think about the idea that desperation can drive one to make poor choices in partners-thinking you can "fix" them to be better ones?

Do these settling arrangements ever really work out?


I feel that you can alter little things. But I wouldn't want to try to change someone in a drastic manner. If I don't see eye to eye with them on important matters I will only allow myself to view them as a potential friend - not some sort of partner.


_____________________________

Insanity -- a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world.
--R. D. Laing

"Oh, but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away."

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 2:07:22 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaTop

I often see this thing about "molding a sub" expressed by Dominants. I've even tried it myself in the past-before I realized it simply doesn't work in the majority of cases. And that it was more my ego ,and the lack of really good matches that drove me to that attitude.

In time, I got over it. What do you think about the idea that desperation can drive one to make poor choices in partners-thinking you can "fix" them to be better ones?

Do these settling arrangements ever really work out?



Were you peeking in the Ask A Mistress section? ;-) About an hour before you posted this topic, I wrote the following in a much more extensive post.

I have to say, with my boy, he is a perfect fit for me. I don’t really want to change anything about him. There are a few things we need to fine tune in our dynamics and that is already happening slowly. If I felt I had to revamp someone completely in order to make them appealing to me, I wouldn’t even bother getting involved.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 2:09:53 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		I actually came up with it as more or less of a standard.

I keep seeing this "molding" thing in so many profiles,and wondered why it seems to be so prevalent.

Almost like one of those stereotypes many take for granted,but never question.

< Message edited by JustaTop -- 10/26/2005 2:16:19 PM >

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 2:12:28 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaTop

I actually came up with it as more or less of a standard.

I keep seeing this "molding" thing in so many profiles,and wondered why it seems to be so prevalent.


I was half teasing. I know these issues come up often because you are right, people do seem like they want to change people a lot. I've learned to take people for who they are, and if that doesn't mean right for me, then better to move on to keep the place vacant for the one who will be.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 2:18:12 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		Smiles,not a problem LA,I can have a sense of humor.

But isn't it amusing in a grouping that claims to value people and be tolerant one one hand......

That on the other,they are talking about doing make overs to "suit"?

WTF?????????

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 2:21:57 PM   
Sensualips


Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		You start with a lump of clay. You can mold it, fire it, paint it, glaze it You are still going to end up with some type of clay creation and not a roast beef sandwich.

Maybe that is the type of molding these people are after?

(in reply to JustaTop)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Accepting a mismatch? - 10/26/2005 2:23:52 PM   
JustaTop


Posts: 511
Joined: 10/5/2005
Status: offline 		People aren't play dough.

You dont just throw them against the wall, spin them up on a wheel,and viola,perfection.

(in reply to Sensualips)
Profile   Post #: 40
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