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RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/5/2008 6:01:05 PM

aidan

Posts: 904
Joined: 5/28/2005
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Yeeeeeah...

I'm regularly a law-and-order kinda guy. Civil society and what-not. However, there are certain scenarios and situations where I can embrace...let's say "natural law" a little more readily.

Let's say it's some bizarro-world universe where Mistress is actually going to allow some event like this (highly unfuckinglikely, seeing as she's probably not gonna be spending time with a male dom over me, and certainly not gonna allow anything remotely close to a D/s division between him and I, because that's gonna be a bad situation from the get-go). Yeah, if he locks me in that thing and then waltzes out, he had best be far, far away when I come out. There are so many reasons why I'm going to beat him into a stupor.

I have very little sympathy for people who fuck up and then get immediate reprisals, usually of the physical variety. I've been there myself, actually, and it was a lot less that trigged it. A prank I pulled that went wrong, and I was spending some hospital time. But I was at least sensible enough to realize that I was in the wrong and didn't take my stupidity out on somebody else's wallet.

And if this woman didn't believe her own over this shmuck? Well, that'd be my ass out the door the next day.

< Message edited by aidan -- 6/5/2008 6:02:22 PM >

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Post #: 61

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/5/2008 6:24:01 PM

NakedHouseboySlv

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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This is the reason why cages, locked or not, are on my hard-limit list. The risk of even an honest mistake can be tragic; such as getting burned alive in a home fire, etc, etc.

(in reply to housesub4you)

Post #: 62

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/5/2008 7:07:04 PM

SnowRanger

Posts: 503
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Sinsinnati
Status: offline

Hi A/all, I don't know if my responce is appropriate here. This is, after all, the Ask a Mistress forum.   There is so much that is unknown here.
   Did the sub object at the time the cage was locked? I would have
    shouted my safe word to the clouds.

    How did the violence really start? This "Master" would have
    received a blistering lecture from me at the very least. If the
    moron tried to pull that "Me Master" riff, then I'd have really
    got going. But, if he'd have put a hand on me....

Who is right here? Sounds like the sub's "sue me" solution is the only way to settle it. Gather the facts. Weigh the facts. Apply the law.
Make a judgement.

(in reply to housesub4you)

Post #: 63

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/5/2008 11:05:23 PM

MissMorrigan

Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
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Hello to you too, Snowranger and of course your post is appropriate regardless of this being the Ask a Mistress forum. I cannot see the 'sue me' avenue as a solution given that 'what we do' is illegal, so the submissive would have a field day "I was held against my will, I was denied food, water, abused and terrified". While the submissive in the OP reacted badly to that situation, my own submissive would get off on being treated that way. In the end, it boils down to trust between submissive and dominant, and the dynamics of the relationship between them.

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Post #: 64

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/5/2008 11:28:15 PM

ownedgirlie

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Joined: 2/5/2006
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~ Fast Reply ~

My opinion: sub leaves it up to the Mistress to deal with the Master about it. Then sub talks to the Mistress about it later. However, as has been mentioned, I'm not sure why the sub didn't speak up when the Master-Man was locking the cage. Seems quirky to me.

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Post #: 65

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/5/2008 11:33:53 PM

MissMorrigan

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Joined: 1/15/2005
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O.G., that's how it would proceed in my household. Our exchanges are 'absolute' and should there ever be a problem he will come directly to me as he trusts my judgement. There are a lot of unanswered questions in the OP, but I think they got what they wanted in terms of condemnation, rightfully or wrongfully, for the dominants involved in the scenario.

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A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

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Post #: 66

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/6/2008 12:04:07 AM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan
There are a lot of unanswered questions in the OP, but I think they got what they wanted in terms of condemnation, rightfully or wrongfully, for the dominants involved in the scenario.

I'm definitely in agreement with you here.

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Post #: 67

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/6/2008 5:50:38 AM

HardToTame

Posts: 205
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline

I think it's common sense. He should of said his safety word or what ever it is, and or gone full kung fu on 'master' ....

Seriously, I think subs sometimes get so involved in the fantasy of it that some become too stupid to save their own lives unless 'master said so' ..spare me.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 68

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/6/2008 7:23:37 AM

torsionman

Posts: 74
Joined: 7/28/2004
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I'm probably not the first person saying this but what happened was NOT consentual at all and I don't blame him for getting so angry...enough to actually come to blows for real with the "master". the snap of the lock went beyond SSC/RACK.

(in reply to housesub4you)

Post #: 69

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/6/2008 7:50:58 AM

MadameMarque

Posts: 1128
Joined: 3/19/2005
Status: offline

To get to the so-called master, the slave would have to pull me off him, first.

That said, it would be best, having already been victims of this jerk, if neither the mistress or the slave put themselves in a position to face criminal charges.

I would have said that the mistress was innocent in this, based upon your description of events, but for her to demand the slave pay medical expenses...well, maybe if she's trying to keep the slave out of court, by suggesting it, or trying to teach him not to come to (nonconsensual) blows?

I'm dismayed that they're filing criminal charges against the one who locked the cage, in a case such as this. I would have thought a DA's office would find the issues of consenting adults too slippery, in this case.

[Edited to say, not that filing charges against the "master" isn't righteous - I believe it would be quite appropriate. I'm just amazed that the charges would get successfully filed, in this case.]

< Message edited by MadameMarque -- 6/6/2008 8:09:30 AM >

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Post #: 70

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/6/2008 1:42:20 PM

SnowRanger

Posts: 503
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Sinsinnati
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Hello Miss Morrigan, First, let me clear up my primary point. The violence inflicted by the sub was un-warranted with out physical force or "fighting words" from the (ahem) master. Because the original posting is second hand; there are many of facts left out.

As for the 'sue me' part....   I would love to sit on that jury. Nancy Ava Miller could be an expert witness. Then someome would call.... Well, the possibilities boggle my mind. 8-O

You do bring up a rather sticky point though. Consent, how do we establish informed consent. As a submissive, I am willing to rely on your good judgement. If I have reservations, I expect that you would educate me about what is to take place. This process builds the trust that you so rightly mentioned. Still as a legal matter how do you take the elements of trust to establish informed consent?

If I were on this jury (with only the facts we are told to weigh), I would see it this way:
Submissive, Wrong for use of force;
Master, Wrong for injecting himself in a scene with out permission of
       both parties;
Mistress, Wrong for not monitoring the situation closely enough;
Judgement:   Split the costs three ways. Then order that these three are not allowed with in a thousand miles of one another. I figure that putting one in Idaho, one in Vermont and one in deep South Texas should be about right (put the ski enthusiast in Texas). Appoligies in advance to people in any of these states who might, correctly, object.

Wow! that was fun!

Miss Morrigan, in closing, I Remain Your Enchanted.
SnowRanger

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You can't help where you were born; and, you may not have much to say about where you die; but, you can and you should try to pass the days in between as a good man.
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(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 71

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/6/2008 2:08:44 PM

unforegvn

Posts: 159
Joined: 8/25/2005
Status: offline

They are all wrong in my book.

The Mistress for not checking her property was properly stored and prepared for an evening out
The Master for sticking his nose where it doesn't belong and for lying
The sub - well violence has no room in any relationship

Unfortunately, the sub will have to pay for the damages his trantrum caused - he can sue "The Master", for wrongful imprisonment but that is a whole other matter.

(in reply to RumpusParable)

Post #: 72

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/6/2008 2:21:11 PM

MissMorrigan

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Joined: 1/15/2005
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SnowRanger, now where would the fun be if my plaything knew what was going to happen to him, he'd be able to mentally prepare himself, I'd miss out on some great reactions and he's always telling me, when I've seen a UFC fight that he hasn't, "Please don't tell me what happens, it'll spoil the journey." And he's right, it would. I spend a lot of time getting to know a person, establishing that foundation of trust.

There was a session I once had involving a male submissive. He had told me, during a casual conversation (I never forget what a person says to me) that secretly he'd love to have the ultimate mindfuck. He is strictly hetero to the point of being 'anal' about it, so during one of our sessions I had him bent over, hooded, secured tightly and allowed a friend of mine into my abode. He began freaking out knowing another person was going to be involved. I put on my strap on, but of course he couldn't see this, and I proceeded to tell him how this big butch guy was going to ride his ass. He became so angry, I've no doubt that if I let him loose at that moment he'd have wiped the floor with us both. A good smack to the face quietened him a little and his ass was rode. The thing is, he allowed his fears to the surface and they tend to breed contempt, had he not given into them he'd have calmed down after the initial fright and evaluated the important points he knew about me, and our interactions together. i'm not going to indulge anyone reading this as to who actually anally penetrated him, suffice to say that he's not so 'anal' now about his sexuality and it still figures as one of his masturbatory materials. We had sessioned once thereafter, so that tells you something. He had wanted what he considered to be the ultimate mindfuck for him... He got it.

As for consent, I had it the moment he agreed to any kind of intimate interaction with me. Had I told him what I had planned for him, do you think he'd have turned up for his session with me, of course not. We take calculated risks every day, we rely on making good judgements and should take full responsibility for our actions.

... A ski enthusiast sent to 'coventry' or in this case, Texas, you have a deliciously wicked streak, SnowRanger.

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The Tooth Fairy who teaches kids to sell body parts for money.

A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

(in reply to SnowRanger)

Post #: 73

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/8/2008 1:14:40 PM

SnowRanger

Posts: 503
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Sinsinnati
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Oh! Miss Morrigan!

Remind me never to ask any one, let alone your lovely self, for the "ultimate mind fuck." I still have a long life ahead of me; and, I don't want to peak too soon. There are events in my past for which I can "Stand a tiptoe when this day is named." Still, I want to know that there are "Crispian Days" yet to come!

As for the points you have made; I will certainly conseed. My most recent D/s relationship was fractured over trust. I never believed that this woman would injure me on purpose. On the other hand, I did fear injury through ignorance. If one is going to take a calculated risk, knowlege of mathematics is important. I am betting you're good at probabilties and statistics. ;-) Experience and knowlege are my new standards of sexy. Those, and a wicked "Mona Lisa Smile.'

My sentencing of the ski enthusiast to Texas is not so cruel as you might think. Once something you're enthusiatic about become your job....

Best wishes to you and yours.

I Remain Your Enchanted,
Mike
SnowRanger

_____________________________

You can't help where you were born; and, you may not have much to say about where you die; but, you can and you should try to pass the days in between as a good man.
Anton Myrer Once an Eagle

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 74

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/8/2008 2:36:53 PM

PanthersMom

Posts: 2215
Joined: 11/26/2007
From: Cleveland Ohio
Status: offline

the whole thing is wrong. the mistress for not keeping tabs on her sub's welfare and allowing the "master" access to her sub, then believing a lie. the "master" for locking a cage that has normally been physically unlocked and lying about it. the sub should have told his mistress what happened and walked out, leaving her to deal with it. if she really valued him it would be no question who would have come out first there. to let this happen to her sub is inexcusable on her part.
PM

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Post #: 75

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/8/2008 2:40:19 PM

MissMorrigan

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Dear Mike, the great thing about us individuals is that as we evolve, so do our experiences, our interests and desires, and while that was the ultimate mind fuck for that gentleman during that period, I'm happy to say he's developed, gained new interests and the world has opened up further opportunities for him. The same can be same of me, too.

By calculated risk, I mean insofar as using good judgement to marry experience with knowledge of the person I interact with. I am sure we've all blundered at some point in our lives and I think the worst kind of offence is when trust is broken between two persons. For that you have my utmost sympathy.

For he today that sheds his blood with me, shall be my brother.

Ever respectful,
Smiling Mona

_____________________________

The Tooth Fairy who teaches kids to sell body parts for money.

A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

(in reply to SnowRanger)

Post #: 76

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/8/2008 3:28:08 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

If the facts are as stated, and I were the sub, I would leave that awful "mistress".
She did not look after the sub's welfare properly, and then believed the "master" rather than her sub. She then sided with the "master" rather than her sub, regarding payment of the medical bills. So she failed him three times. The first time could have led to his untimely death. The second and third times were betrayals of trust. She does not deserve another chance. He should leave her NOW, while he's still alive.
And I'm not saying its right, but if anyone ever did anything like that to my slave, my first instinct would be to throw him off the balcony. My slaveboy's safety and well being is PARAMOUNT.

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Post #: 77

RE: Who's wrong???? - 6/8/2008 8:08:01 PM

SnowRanger

Posts: 503
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Sinsinnati
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Enchanting Miss Morrigan, I was going to say that "We have to stop meeting like this." I can't bring myself to even joke about such a thing. The exchanges that I have had with you have added to my edification beyond measure. I have seen your postings on other threads, and I admire your insights. I may be groveling here; but, it is sincere groveling. :-)

Please feel no sympathy for me about my last relationship, I made mistakes myself. I learned a lot; and, I hope, we both are better for it. My comment about calculated risk was not intended to be Smart Assed (although I did hope for a smile from you). I knew what you meant; you, "(use) good judgement to marry experience with knowlege of the person (you) interact with." I am afraid that you felt compelled to defend yourself . I apologize for that.

I should have realized (although I did know deep inside) that your submissive's experience would be an expansive experience rather than a terminal one. It's just that he had only one more session with you after that. Were I in his shoes, (boots in my case) I would be distressed that our journey together was over.

Participation in these Collarchat Message boards have helped me to develop a better understanding of the Female Domination scene; and, it has helped me form a better understanding of the place I seek in it.
I have found our exchanges to be quite evocative.

Therefore I hope that i never run out of creative ways to say....
I Remain Your Enchanted, Mike
SnowRanger

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Post #: 78

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