RE: Nationalize the oil Companies

RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

Archer -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/5/2008 11:07:50 AM)
Problem with trying to regulate speculators is that you are limiting the price your own country is willing to pay while having no way to control how much another country's speculators are willing to pay. Thus you end up shifting oil sales away from your country and to someone elses. NYME is where the second largest profit in the chain is gotten. But artificial price controls by one country have always simply shifted the sales to other countries. befoe long speculaators in every other market are making money and then selling to you anyway, the only thing lost is the profit they take back to their country. You can only control commodity prices paid inside your boarders, China and India will be happy to put the price a bit above that on the markets in Singapore Hong Kong, Japan, etc and suck all the oil through then pass it on to us after their mark up.

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/5/2008 11:08:10 AM)
Maybe we should privatize schools too then. Education for those that can afford it. [8\|]

Archer -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/5/2008 11:10:52 AM)
With vouchers yes please, oh and the reduction in taxes that have been going to the budget for the purpose.

Sanity -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/5/2008 11:12:14 AM)
If we nationalize oil does that mean we all get free gasoline, and we can drive the biggest vehicles money can buy... or would socialists also want total control of our driving choices.

Leatherist -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/5/2008 11:15:35 AM)
Wrong approach. Regulate speculation in futures.

christine1 -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/5/2008 11:26:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro Maybe we should privatize schools too then. Education for those that can afford it. [8\|] were you responding to me? if so, i'm not following your line of thinking since i was talking about imminent domain?

meatcleaver -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/6/2008 12:58:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity If we nationalize oil does that mean we all get free gasoline, and we can drive the biggest vehicles money can buy... or would socialists also want total control of our driving choices. No, what it means is, the industry would probably be managed more efficiently (privatization in Europe has killed the lie private companies are more efficient), the profits won't be creamed off by the rich and there can be strategic long term planning. When you are in a traffic jam, it really doesn't matter what you drive, you're going nowhere fast. However, you would probably have to pay the full costs of your driving which includes environmental damage, it seems rather arrogant of drivers to expect other members of society to subsidize their addiction.

pinksugarsub -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/6/2008 2:15:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnSteed1967 Here's the thing, Not sure if it was Teddy or Franklin Roosevelt that drafted the coal miners, but there is a history of the government stepping in and taking over a vital national resource during times of crisis. Jimmy Carter (Cringe) proposed nationalizing the Oil companies as a way of relieving the national debit. I know for a fact, that much of the oil coming off the Alaskan piple line is loaded into boats heading for CHINA. We can't get action out of this president, but I think we should start a push with the new president to pass a law that says very simply the following : If its oil and it found with in the boundries of the us, its ours. Its not to be bought, sold or traded! and that the resources of any oil company doing business in America now belong to us. I mean come on, the Saudi's have like .10 gas and Brazil? Come on Hugo Chavez the whole country's oil system is nationalized. Before the US Blundered into IRAQ their oil system was nationalized! O, i really like this idea. i would have thought that there would be constitutional barriers, but i googled this, and there is (according to Wikpedia) an American history of natonalising indusries. All United States railroads were nationalized as the United States Railroad Administration during World War I as a wartime measure but were returned to their private owners almost immediately after the war. The National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak) is a government-owned corporation created in 1971 for the express purpose of relieving American railroads of their legal obligation to provide inter-city rail service. They were trying to get out of this obligation anyway, but by taking over their passenger rail assets, Amtrak was able to keep the passenger trains running. In 1976 the Consolidated Rail Corporation (Conrail), another government corporation, was created to take over the operations of six bankrupt rail lines operating primarily in the Northeastern United States; Conrail was privatized in 1987. Initial plans for Conrail would have made it a truly nationalized system like that during World War I, but an alternate proposal by the Association of American Railroads won out. Organization of the Tennessee Valley Authority entailed the nationalization of the facilities of the former Tennessee Electric Power Company in 1939. In 2001, in response to the September 11th attacks, the then-private airport security industry was nationalized and put under the authority of the Transportation Security Administration. pinksugarsub

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/6/2008 2:21:49 AM)
No dice, Pink! Archer is going to come along and raise all kinds of pointless free market drivel and tell us how we free and natural persons had better learn to grovel before the majesty that is... ...The Corporation!

Sanity -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/6/2008 6:17:37 AM)
How is your deity HUGE GOVENMENT BUREAUCRACY any improvement. Most of the industry would move outside the U.S., you'd be driving more jobs to Mexico or somewhere else... I imagine any government worker drones remaining behind wouldn't be paid nearly as well, they wouldn't be nearly as motivated, and we still won't get our free gas. Hell, I'm sure gas would be rationed under your system. Wouldn't it. What would your true motive be... what improvements might we see were we to destroy so much more American industry and all the associated jobs and tax revenue. Cheaper gas wouldn't be on you agenda at all, would it. After all, many socialists say that burning gas makes carbon, which is destroying their planet god.

Sanity -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/6/2008 6:46:34 AM)
Oops! The price of tacos just went up. Must be time to nationalize Taco Bell too... fire that little doggy and have the President anoint his replacement. Eh? Copper is up, too. Is it time to nationalize that industry? Using your criteria, pink, what isn't it time to nationalize... quote: ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub O, i really like this idea. i would have thought that there would be constitutional barriers, but i googled this, and there is (according to Wikpedia) an American history of natonalising indusries. All United States railroads were nationalized as the United States Railroad Administration during World War I as a wartime measure but were returned to their private owners almost immediately after the war. The National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak) is a government-owned corporation created in 1971 for the express purpose of relieving American railroads of their legal obligation to provide inter-city rail service. They were trying to get out of this obligation anyway, but by taking over their passenger rail assets, Amtrak was able to keep the passenger trains running. In 1976 the Consolidated Rail Corporation (Conrail), another government corporation, was created to take over the operations of six bankrupt rail lines operating primarily in the Northeastern United States; Conrail was privatized in 1987. Initial plans for Conrail would have made it a truly nationalized system like that during World War I, but an alternate proposal by the Association of American Railroads won out. Organization of the Tennessee Valley Authority entailed the nationalization of the facilities of the former Tennessee Electric Power Company in 1939. In 2001, in response to the September 11th attacks, the then-private airport security industry was nationalized and put under the authority of the Transportation Security Administration. pinksugarsub

Marc2b -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/6/2008 7:23:24 AM)
So let me see if I got this right. People perceive a problem – the control of a vital resource in the hands of a small group of corrupt individuals who run the oil companies. Their proposed solution? Take the power away from the small group of corrupt individuals and hand it to an even smaller group of corrupt individuals – a government bureaucracy (the same kind of people who run the post office and the DMV). Take away our ability to influence the market via our choices and give us no choice but to do business with a single entity (an entity that has the power to compel our "co-operation"). The problem with the thinking of people like SugarMyChurro and others is their naive belief that everything will be hunky-dory so long as we concentrate power in the hands of the proper individuals (i.e. people who think like us and are pure of heart and motive). We just need the benevolent wise few to guide us and take care of us. History has demonstrated time and time again the fallacy of that belief. It is a very rare individual (there have been a few) that does not become enamored of their power and seek to increase it (this will be for the benefit of the benighted masses of course). Power is the most dangerous narcotic of them all. This is precisely why the Founding Fathers placed limits on the power of the Federal Government. The solution to the abuse of concentrated power is not to hand that power over to another group to abuse – the solution is to diffuse power. In the case of oil (or rather, in the larger perspective, energy) the main problem is that supply is in the hands of a few nations. To diffuse them of their power we need to increase supply elsewhere. That means domestic drilling/refining and (gasp!) nuclear power, just for starters.

kittinSol -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/6/2008 7:29:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marc2b That means domestic drilling/refining and (gasp!) nuclear power, just for starters. Oh... oh, I feel a song coming on... Antinature From the future We sing Go to the Highlands And put a bomb underneath a mountain Sweet little creatures Eat, sleep, shit the day away I won't be at the mercy of myself In every country A million raging ids Wage a war for the control Of our unhappy kids Do you want to go back Into the cold, into the darkness? We will win You can do anything. Antinature Nuclear power? Yes please McCarthy

Marc2b -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/6/2008 7:41:21 AM)
How much environmental damage has nuclear energy done compared to oil energy?

kittinSol -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/6/2008 7:53:18 AM)
Hey, if you read carefully, that song is actually pro-nuclear. My opinion on the matter isn't clear cut: in Europe, nuclear energy is Queen.

meatcleaver -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/6/2008 12:13:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity How is your deity HUGE GOVENMENT BUREAUCRACY any improvement. Most of the industry would move outside the U.S., you'd be driving more jobs to Mexico or somewhere else... I imagine any government worker drones remaining behind wouldn't be paid nearly as well, they wouldn't be nearly as motivated, and we still won't get our free gas. Hell, I'm sure gas would be rationed under your system. Europe has experimented with privatization and industries that were privatized were more inefficient, had more bureaucracy and higher customer prices than when they were nationalized. Its an ideological lie that private companies are more efficient than nationalized industries when managing vital resources and utilities.

Marc2b -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/6/2008 12:37:30 PM)
quote: Hey, if you read carefully, that song is actually pro-nuclear. My opinion on the matter isn't clear cut: in Europe, nuclear energy is Queen. Um... okay. I think. I could read those lyrics a hundred times and still not be sure what the fuck they're talking about. It sounds like they're saying pissed off people want to nuke poor little animals on some mountain

kittinSol -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/6/2008 12:41:16 PM)
Ah yes, eighties English alternative pop isn't for everyone... especially a self-confessed communist group like McCarthy (amazingly, they were pro-nuclear, which was seriously unfashionable).

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/6/2008 6:03:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Its an ideological lie that private companies are more efficient than nationalized industries when managing vital resources and utilities. It really is a source of wonder how we can be this close to the brink and still hear the weak cries of how we don't see enough freedom in the marketplace. Gee, and it would appear that freedom to speculate is exactly what is destroying the economy both nationally and possibly internationally. These kinds of rises in that precise market is exactly what no economy could possibly sustain. They have found the Achilles heel of the economy and they have decided to draw blood from that very spot. Wow, I am so glad we invaded Iraq and forestalled this problem from occurring by taking their oil!

Archer -> RE: Nationalize the oil Companies (6/6/2008 6:12:50 PM)
OK just so we know how much oil we're talking about nationalizing. The Top 5 oil companies combined own what percentage of the known liquid oil in the entire world? 4% Of that 4% how much is actually inside the confines of the US so that they could legally seize it? That I have not discovered but I'm betting it's not much more than maybe 5% considering this is world wide. So if we nationalized all the oil owned by the top 5 private companies that is within the US it yeilds us control of how much of the known worlld oil supply. 0.2%. Wow lots of control gained to influence the prices.

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875