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Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 8:23:39 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		For you across the pond, how many of you are 'Rennies'

Do you have a specific role you like to 'live' at the event ?

And given what I can understand as one of these events being a  historically inspired dressing up and enjoying yourself event, could you possibly give a reason why there appears to be nothing similar in Britain aside from the re enactor events where the authenticity nazis stalk ?


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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 8:28:50 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I think in America these fancy-dress parties arose out of a desire to reconnect somehow to the past, since it's such a young country. In England, people live and breathe history: in America, they long for it. Remember what Eddie Izzard said: "I'm from Europe, where history was invented." It's a source of much fantasy, to imagine being disconnected from modernity and all of its bland, boring conventions.

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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 8:31:40 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		I love Ren Faires. .I'm not a full-on Rennie, strictly amateur, but it's soooooo much fun!!

There are some Faires here that are stalked by the authenticity 'nazis' , those are my preference (although I have a hard time with the Elizabethan english...). Most I've been to around the country, not so much. It's one of my biggest gripes about the one here in Tampa. 

REC is known for authenticity

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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 8:33:21 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		RenFaires employ professionals to act the live roles, giving them training, and monitoring their interactions with the crowd to make sure they not only stay in character, but maintain authenticity.  Same for Colonial Williamsburg and other 'living history'settings.
http://www.renfaire.com/RPFI/working_faire.html
http://www.renfaire.com/RPFI/guilds.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RenFaireActing/
http://tribes.tribe.net/renfaireacting/



Maybe you were thinking of the SCA?

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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 8:37:46 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Fun links. I loved this:

quote:



A pox upon thee! basically wishes death upon the recipient (either via small pox or syphillis (french pox)). As with oaths, a curse is most effective upon an item of pre-eminent worth. "May thou hammer be brittle!" "May thou plow seize!" "May thou cup be as unto a sieve!" "May thou pigs be set upon by ravens and torne asunder leaving only bespecked bone and curdled fat for which the rats upon to feast!" Particularly serious are those things involving livelihood or reproduction. "May thou fields be fallow, thou mares be barren, and thou tongue be leaden!"



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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 8:55:49 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		The various reenactment groups in the US have their share of "authenticity nazis", Aneirin.
 
And yes, Alumbrado, the SCA has perhaps more than it's Fair share (pun intended) of such.
 
Yes, I have a specific "role" - a Persona - that I adopt while at RenFaires and SCA events.  Two in fact, which I split my time between depending on my mood when I start packing to go to an event.  One is pre-muslem beduin, the other is pre-christian welsh (the primary one).  There are some similarities between the two personas - both are childless widows, for instance - but there are a lot of differences between the two as well.  Their mannerisms are different, their world view is different, how they interact with other people is Very different.  (The beduin persona is a lot  more reserved and soft spoken, almost withdrawn - a minor player and hanger on of the household of her "uncle" who is the character of a close friend.  The 10th c welsh woman is a lot  more outspoken, boisterous, playful - not at all shy - and very much in command of her Household since she has no living male relatives.)  It's the welsh persona that I adopt when I'm specifically going to Faires as a merchant.
 
I did the research on expected/relevant gender roles, costuming, mind sets to the extent that they're documented and researchable, etc... because I enjoy doing so.  I go to events for a lot of reasons.  I enjoy them on several levels, ranging from the never ending party to having a relaxed and completely laid back opportunity to hang out with the friends that I've made through such groups to having an opportunity to express my creative urges at the bardic circles and AS (arts & sciences) compititions to learning various bits of nearly forgotten pre-industrial technology. 
 
The Faires also make a fantastic sales outlet for me, since a high percentage of them either actively discourage mass produced goods or simply don't Allow anything other than handcrafted goods - which means the people who attend them are Expecting to (a) spend a lot of money and (b) spend it on high quality hand crafted products of all types.

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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 9:11:05 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Ren fairs can be fun. SCA can be fun as well. if drinking and wenching is your thing that is. But there are groups of each where the authenticity nazis reign and those are exceedingly unfun.

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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 9:13:40 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		 
The SCA is non-paying, and people pick their own personae, and short of a tiny handful, the level of attention to detail or skill is not what I think of as professional.

Living history is professional acting assignments. Even the vendors are expected to adhere to guidelines and attend classes.


In over 35 years, I've never seen an SCA event that didn't prominently feature cigarettes for example...that slip up would be shall we say, extinguished at a RenFaire.

Only in the very recent past has the SCA given the go ahead to performing acurately researched, choreographed, and staged fights with authentic weapons, ala living history...(which did not come about with out grumbling from the hefty...errr, sorry, 'heavy' fighters and their wooden swords).

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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 9:34:06 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Ren fairs can be fun. SCA can be fun as well. if drinking and wenching is your thing that is. But there are groups of each where the authenticity nazis reign and those are exceedingly unfun.


I am thinking to perhaps 'get back' into what I used to do in the past, but am niggled by the authenticity angle, as here, the UK, we seem to take things all too seriously. It should be fun, in the past, sometimes it was not fun, the nazis caused that, English Heritage being one of them. They appeared at events and were usually derisory towards reenactors. Of the other nazis, it was always interesting to see they did not often partake in the battles,(probably scared their 'authentic' plate armour would end up looking like scrap, if they faced those they mocked).

From what I can understand on a renn faire, there is a certain amount of fantasy injected, something which I believe just adds to the fun, people having fun, as it should be.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 10:02:39 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

In over 35 years, I've never seen an SCA event that didn't prominently feature cigarettes for example...that slip up would be shall we say, extinguished at a RenFaire.

Only in the very recent past has the SCA given the go ahead to performing acurately researched, choreographed, and staged fights with authentic weapons, ala living history...(which did not come about with out grumbling from the hefty...errr, sorry, 'heavy' fighters and their wooden swords).



Actually, smoking isn't that big a deal at most faires anymore.  It was a huge complaint ten years ago.  Now, most faires are starting to relax a bit and concentrate on making things more fun than accurate.
Over the last ten years, I have performed as a sword fighter, an actor portraying part of three different royal courts (not at the same time), A herald, a wandering street character known as "Queen Larry" (a pink kilted Scottsman), and most recently as a jouster.  I have also worked as a merchant although my wife has several years of merchant experience on me fron running her chainmaille shop.   I even dabbled in promoting and managed to pull off four different events.  It would have been 5 but this last year's event was cancelled due to rain.
Now, I am staring all over in a new region.

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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 10:03:38 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

I am thinking to perhaps 'get back' into what I used to do in the past, but am niggled by the authenticity angle, as here, the UK, we seem to take things all too seriously. It should be fun, in the past, sometimes it was not fun, the nazis caused that, English Heritage being one of them. They appeared at events and were usually derisory towards reenactors. Of the other nazis, it was always interesting to see they did not often partake in the battles,(probably scared their 'authentic' plate armour would end up looking like scrap, if they faced those they mocked).

From what I can understand on a renn faire, there is a certain amount of fantasy injected, something which I believe just adds to the fun, people having fun, as it should be.



This wouldn't be the first post where 'from what you can understand' is completely divorced from the reality.

If you want to become a Rennie, then authenticity to the point of realism is part of the job description. 
If you want to be a paying customer, you can toddle in wearing all sorts of fantasy-esque stuff for the fun of it, just like the SCA, and leave the Authenticity Compulsive Disorder sufferers to their own devices.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 6/7/2008 10:04:29 AM >

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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 10:08:49 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
,(probably scared their 'authentic' plate armour would end up looking like scrap, if they faced those they mocked).


Didn't anyone point out that REAL armour was pretty battered about.  The stuff we see in museums is usually ceremonial armour which was never intended for combat.

I don't recall the book but I loved the line, "Her armour was battered and scarred, showing she didn't mind fighting, and she was still alive, showing she usually won."



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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 10:10:12 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

From what I can understand on a renn faire, there is a certain amount of fantasy injected, something which I believe just adds to the fun, people having fun, as it should be.


There is a lovely young woman who travels the midwest wearing a costume that makes her appear to have animal legs.  It is a definite attention getter.
There is also a gentleman in the southern regions who travels as a centaur.  His hind legs have wheels in the hooves.  The kids really love the guy.
Almost every large faire I have ever been to has a "Faery realm" as well to entertain the kids.
It definately adds to a faire to interject a bit of fantasy.  Customers would run for the hills if we showed them how it really was.

Georgia, if you're a faire vendor, expect to get a line from us soon.  We're in the process of cooking something up in the NE Ar area.

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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 10:10:18 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

In over 35 years, I've never seen an SCA event that didn't prominently feature cigarettes for example...that slip up would be shall we say, extinguished at a RenFaire.

Only in the very recent past has the SCA given the go ahead to performing acurately researched, choreographed, and staged fights with authentic weapons, ala living history...(which did not come about with out grumbling from the hefty...errr, sorry, 'heavy' fighters and their wooden swords).



Actually, smoking isn't that big a deal at most faires anymore.  It was a huge complaint ten years ago.  Now, most faires are starting to relax a bit and concentrate on making things more fun than accurate.
Over the last ten years, I have performed as a sword fighter, an actor portraying part of three different royal courts (not at the same time), A herald, a wandering street character known as "Queen Larry" (a pink kilted Scottsman), and most recently as a jouster.  I have also worked as a merchant although my wife has several years of merchant experience on me fron running her chainmaille shop.   I even dabbled in promoting and managed to pull off four different events.  It would have been 5 but this last year's event was cancelled due to rain.
Now, I am staring all over in a new region.


That isn't what my roomate who has worked the big Faires for several seasons tells me...she says (and the web sites seem to support) that they are becoming more accurate, not less. She was pulled aside by supervisors on several occasion and asked to defend minute discrepanicies in something as simple as her jlewelry being too nice for her character's station.

I suspect that there are people getting together just for fun and fantasy weekend events, ala ShadowCon, and just calling themselves 'Rennies', without an appreciation of the level of professionalism required to earn that insider title.

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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 10:21:19 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		What faires is she working?  I worked Norman, Ok seven or eight years ago.  They had a mermaid and we were just told to smoke near the port o potty area.  I've worked every faire in Iowa except the Des Moines Faire and they had trolls and faeries.  Again, just step to the side of the tent to smoke.  I worked at two in Nebraska that only asked that you smoked far enough from the tents that you didn't fporce anyone else inside to breathe your smoke.
I'll admit to not having been to Greater St Louis since their first year so they may well have gotten waaaay stricter. 

Of course, many of these faires also disallow selling of pagan items because "there were no pagans after the renaissance."  I was actually told that by one promoter.  Many faires go through periods of authenticity naziism.  It usually goes away.  The crowd is there to see the magic that we put on and to go somewhere away from their everyday lives.  Renaissance faires and living history are not always the same ... in fact, they are rarely the same.

< Message edited by Irishknight -- 6/7/2008 10:22:13 AM >

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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 10:23:07 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

I am thinking to perhaps 'get back' into what I used to do in the past, but am niggled by the authenticity angle, as here, the UK, we seem to take things all too seriously. It should be fun, in the past, sometimes it was not fun, the nazis caused that, English Heritage being one of them. They appeared at events and were usually derisory towards reenactors. Of the other nazis, it was always interesting to see they did not often partake in the battles,(probably scared their 'authentic' plate armour would end up looking like scrap, if they faced those they mocked).

From what I can understand on a renn faire, there is a certain amount of fantasy injected, something which I believe just adds to the fun, people having fun, as it should be.



This wouldn't be the first post where 'from what you can understand' is completely divorced from the reality.

If you want to become a Rennie, then authenticity to the point of realism is part of the job description. 
If you want to be a paying customer, you can toddle in wearing all sorts of fantasy-esque stuff for the fun of it, just like the SCA, and leave the Authenticity Compulsive Disorder sufferers to their own devices.


Yes, I am one of those people who find out things for themselves, is that wrong ?

Authenticity, what do think, authentic to six feet, or six inches ?

I have done authentic to six inches, but limited myself purposefully, as I did not want to make chain maille from hand drawn half round section rivetted iron rings, it is purely not worth the effort, though I can do it.

Oh yes, I did Iron Age for that simplicity and of the woollen tunic and braccae, that I wove myself on a reconstructed iron age loom after first learning to dye wool and spin it on a drop spindle. Bronze articles, I cast them from beeswax models encased in clay slip from a river bank and the furnace I created in a field to cast the articles. Museum quality, I learned a lot through research and experimentation, but now I do not wish to go that far into what should be something I can do with like minded individuals for fun.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 11:51:26 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		I am actually reminded of a woman who came up to me beforea show and tried to play "time period nazi."

She pointed at something I had and said, "That isn't period."  All my friends rolled their eyes as I turned around to give my response.

"Lady, I'm wearing a pink kilt made from baby blanket material, a pastel green poet shirt, and a pair of thigh high black cavalier boots with matching black leather belt.  I am carrying a stuffed sheep who happens to be wearing a chastity belt and a fishing pole with a toy troll at the end.  I ride around on a pink stick horse that sings.  Name one thing on me that is period." 

She left and didn't bother me the rest of the weekend.  She was also one of the ones who asked the faire owners to hire me again the next year.


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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 1:42:42 PM   
JohnSteed1967


Posts: 304
Joined: 5/29/2005
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline 		I guess I am what is called a "Playtron" I am neither a full blown Rennie but then I don't go dressed in Street clothes either. If there is a Role that I play I guess it would be a Rouge. I have a full length Black cape, black leather arm bracers with a gryphon on each, I have a black leather lone ranger or Domino mask. a 3 foot long broad sword. and I keep a dagger at my waist. All Peace tied of course.

Which reminds me I need to get my sword sheath repaired before season starts this year!

Fav Ren story, I went to the Faire in OK and was playfully attacked by two "Thief's in Training" w/ wooden spoons as I was walking over the wooden bridge.

I had on my cape and my sword concealed beneath the cape, well up behind me comes the faires "man at arms" who offers me his pole Axe. I handed it back to him and said "Naaah, I got this covered" The proceed to trow back my cape with great flourish to revel the three feet of steel beneath.

Next thing I see is my two assailants running for the hills!

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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 1:56:52 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		We're pretty lucky here with the SCA being at a reasonable level and mostly smokers having their smokos in defined areas or in pavilions so as not to up[set the authenticity and leather tankards holding cans of coke or what ever.. A lot though don't these days seem to be interested in medieval speak which I love. We also have a few more professional fairs about the country which do insist in reasonably accurate garb but don't get their knickers in a knot if it is machiine stitched and not hand sewn as my 10thC Norse garb is. Personally i like a good cross between the SCA (I was a member for 20 years) and the metal weapons and was a founding member of one such company (dark Ages mewdieval group). I used to enjoy the combat with the SCA stick jocks but nothing beats full on steel blade on blade of a good metal weapons tourney. Been promising myself than on my next trip to the US I will attend both SCA events and the ren fairs..

Iron Bear
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)

"I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)


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RE: Renaissance Fayres - 6/7/2008 2:35:20 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I attend the local faires usually as part of a group.  Sometimes  in a tavern guild, sometimes as a musican and sometimes assisting a vendor.
 
My character is a ahem...mover of rare and valuable merchandise; whether that be jewels, spices, documents or slaves.



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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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