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RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 3:34:30 PM

Irishknight

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cluelessslave

Liberals are much more humanistic than are conservatives, in the US at least. Humanism is concerned with the well being of the whole of humanity and every individual. Conservatives are about competing for private property and protecting their own group from outsiders. Authoritarianism and capitalism are conservative ideologies. Communism and socialism are liberal ideologies. When you know the truth and have the power and own the wealth, you want things to stay the same. You promote the status quo. When you are struggling to improve conditions you want things to change. You promote progress. Liberal thoughts are about making progress while conservative thoughts are about protecting what you have.

Again, you generalize far too much. There are many "liberals" out there who would as soon watch you drown as toss you a rope. There are many "conservatives" who will give you the shirt off their back. Only the far left and far right have anything close to what you describe in mentality and that is usually only on the surface.

There are probably just as many conservatives who believe that they are working for "progress." They may see progress differently than you. I don't see the "global economy" as progress for this country but maybe they do. Just becausethey see things differently than you, they are not evil. That is the kind of hate spewing garbage that has gotten us to where we are now.

How many liberal government leaders in this country live in trailers and give their excess money to the poor? The answer is probably "zero." How many are wealthy? Most of them. How many have ever voted against a raise to their already too large salaries? It is fine to be idealistic but when you live exactly the same as the people you run down, those ideals are worth nothing.

The party of the wealthy corporations and the party of the common man are both myths. There was actually a "people's party" once. They ruled a little place called the USSR.

(in reply to cluelessslave)

Post #: 41

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 3:41:10 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fungasm

I'm not going to be elected anytime soon.

If you decide to run though, give me a holler and I'll come to work on your campaign.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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Post #: 42

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 3:43:39 PM

pinksugarsub

Posts: 1224
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fungasm

That all people should be treated equally, regardless of color, gender or sexual preference.

That our elderly shouldn't be left to die in poverty.

That those who cannot take care of themselves should be protected.

That everyone deserves an education.

That no one should go to bed hungry.

That no one has the right to hurt or abuse a child.

That rape is wrong.

That our Constitution and Bill of Rights are sacred documents, and that those who love this country will act within the laws of this country. If those laws are wrong, we work to change them peacefully.

That our soldiers who fight for us deserve the best training, the best equipment, and the best Commander in Chief- who will send them to defend our country and it's values, not to finish Daddy's dirty work.

Just some thoughts. If the worst thing you have against Obama is his middle name- than you really have to do better.

Ali

i think the terms 'liberal' and 'conservative' have pretty much lost any meaning. There no longer is any wide-spread agreement on what platforms either type adopts.

What a pain in the ass. Instead of knee-jerk voting based on sweeping generalizations, i have to figure out a candidate's positions, issue by issue. Maybe i'll become a single-issue voter and shortcut my duty to be informed that way.

pinksugarsub

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Post #: 43

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 3:47:08 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cluelessslave

Authoritarianism and capitalism are conservative ideologies. Communism and socialism are liberal ideologies.

Ummm, Clueless? Those statements are pretty, well, ... clueless. Communism/socialism are authoritarian systems.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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Post #: 44

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 6:39:55 PM

popeye1250

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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: cluelessslave

Authoritarianism and capitalism are conservative ideologies. Communism and socialism are liberal ideologies.

Ummm, Clueless? Those statements are pretty, well, ... clueless. Communism/socialism are authoritarian systems.

LOL!
"Heya! Heya! Programs here! " Getcha Programs! "You can't tell the players without a program!"

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Post #: 45

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 7:26:56 PM

orfunboi

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edited because I am tired

< Message edited by orfunboi -- 6/8/2008 7:34:37 PM >

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Post #: 46

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 7:34:04 PM

orfunboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi

Those are very good thoughts, the kind of things that my conservative family taught me growing up and still believe in today.

Not sure why you labeled them liberal thoughts though. You do know that conservatives care also, right?

I can't say I've noticed.

Well then, you should be paying better attention.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 47

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 7:40:00 PM

orfunboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

(Conservative responses in Red)

That all people should be treated equally, regardless of color, gender or sexual preference. – well, so long as they aren’t TOO dark and keep our yards nice.

That our elderly shouldn't be left to die in poverty. – No, they have lived their life. Time to bow out and die and decrease the surplus population.

That those who cannot take care of themselves should be protected. – Everybody can do something..even it’s being a doorstop. Get them off their asses!
That everyone deserves an education. – but, but then the classes will be more indistinguishable and we’d have to allow riff-raff into the Ivy League colleges!

That no one should go to bed hungry. - We agree! There is plenty enough cake to go around.

That no one has the right to hurt or abuse a child. – Agreed. (so long as it’s not MY child)

That rape is wrong. – Yes. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things. Do it correctly or not at all we say!

That our Constitution and Bill of Rights are sacred documents, and that those who love this country will act within the laws of this country. If those laws are wrong, we work to change them peacefully. – or at least print it on a better quality of toilet tissue. We are getting a rash using that old parchment!

That our soldiers who fight for us deserve the best training, the best equipment, and the best Commander in Chief- who will send them to defend our country and it's values, not to finish Daddy's dirty work. – It’s all part of our family values platform! You libs got something against family???

As a conservative, I would have to say, you have no clue what your talking about. I would say it's a liberal thing, but I don't believe in grouping people together like that and I know to many liberals who are actually decent human beings. So now I am curious. Does it make you feel better about yourself when you put down others like that? Is this some kind of therapy?

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 48

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 7:47:32 PM

cluelessslave

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Joined: 6/7/2008
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con·serv·a·tive
–adjective
1.   disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.

lib·er·al
–adjective
1.   favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.

com·mu·nism
–noun
1.   a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.

2.   (often initial capital letter) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

so·cial·ism
–noun
1.   a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

cap·i·tal·ism
–noun
an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

au·thor·i·tar·i·an
–adjective
1.   favoring complete obedience or subjection to authority as opposed to individual freedom: authoritarian principles; authoritarian attitudes.
2.   of or pertaining to a governmental or political system, principle, or practice in which individual freedom is held as completely subordinate to the power or authority of the state, centered either in one person or a small group that is not constitutionally accountable to the people.
---

The idea that conservative capitlaists are at all progressive or humanist is wild. Wild like a college girl on spring break, in her liberal orgy of drunken uninhibitedness!

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 49

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 8:09:57 PM

popeye1250

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"Terrorists? Let's try negotiating with them."

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Post #: 50

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 8:16:45 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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If that is your idea of a coherent response to a challenge of your assertions, Clueless, I'm going to consider myself clued in.

Buh-bye

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to cluelessslave)

Post #: 51

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 8:22:12 PM

Irishknight

Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline

Clueless, you still miss the point. People aren't definitions. They don't fit into neat little boxes unless you break their bones first and the get a shoe horn and ...... umm ..... where was I?

I bet 90% of conservative congressmen will tell you that they are trying to help people. The same can be said for the liberals. The truth is that they are all trying to help themselves. They distract people by keeping people fighting over who is trying to help the people and whoi is trying to help the corporations. NONE of them is trying to help us. Why should they? We are beneath them and elitist friends. They are the new royalty and we are the serfs.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 52

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 8:23:54 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cluelessslave
The idea that conservative capitlaists are at all progressive or humanist is wild.

I think the point that you are missing, is that greedy liberals calling themselves 'progressives' is as wild as pouring syrup on a pile of crap and calling it pancakes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

How many liberal government leaders in this country live in trailers and give their excess money to the poor? The answer is probably "zero." How many are wealthy? Most of them. How many have ever voted against a raise to their already too large salaries? It is fine to be idealistic but when you live exactly the same as the people you run down, those ideals are worth nothing.

The party of the wealthy corporations and the party of the common man are both myths.

I see you've been paying attention to that man behind the curtain again...

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 53

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 9:39:40 PM

Marc2b

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Ohhhh... doesn’t this look like an intellectualy juicy thread! I’d love to dive right in but I’ve got go to work tomorrow. Maybe later (emphasis on the word maybe). I will, however take the time to say this –

All the definitions, labeling, stereotypes, biases, invective, etc., aside, the main problem between conservatives and liberals is not so much that they disagree on where we as a society should be but that they disagree on how we should get there.

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 6/8/2008 9:41:20 PM >

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Post #: 54

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 10:07:56 PM

celticlord2112

Posts: 5732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

"Terrorists? Let's try negotiating with them."

I'm all for negotiating with terrorists.

The first talking point should be preferred burial rites and rituals.

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Post #: 55

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 10:13:46 PM

Leatherist

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"Liberal thought" tends to go something like-these people are disadvantaged, so we will rationalize taking advantage of someone else to "fix" the problem-by making it a law and forcing them to.

Because everyone should be equal-and if you are superior-well I guess we will have to punish you by bringing you down.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 6/8/2008 10:14:16 PM >

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Post #: 56

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 10:14:44 PM

chickpea

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Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Los Angeles Area
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Hillary is quite the "terrorist" in her own way...hehe and Barack appealed to her logical side by being open and communicative... Maybe all these terrorists are just over-emotional? Gotta give them one chance, but not a second. It doesn't have to be a negotiation, give and take. It's not 50/50. Just open the door to a better way (than spending trillions blowing each other up). Let reason rule. And if they're all full of shit and just want to blow up Americans just because they want to, well... then that's it. They will suffer with economic sanctions, etc... But I think there's a better way than wrecklessly tossing bombs their way... treat them like animals and they'll act like animals, is what i say.

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 57

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 10:25:39 PM

chickpea

Posts: 446
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Los Angeles Area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

"Liberal thought" tends to go something like-these people are disadvantaged, so we will rationalize taking advantage of someone else to "fix" the problem-by making it a law and forcing them to.

Because everyone should be equal-and if you are superior-well I guess we will have to punish you by bringing you down.

No.

Liberal thought is about dealing with things in a better way if that's reasonable. Using all other options. Not just about hey, i'm superior, listen to me and I'll bomb your ass. Though some people or groups need that tough talk, our economy will suffer, plus bridges will burn. Tread strongly, but carefully is what I say.

Not trying to make everyone the same. Everyone individual and group is different in the way they think and do things, but everyone shares the same hope of a better life and other common things. Anyone who's met and lived in a bunch of cultures will notice that, no matter where you go and how different the customs seem, everyone just somehow seems the same deep down (there's good and bad in every group).

It's about appealing to what's alike between people, rather than out of fear and defending yourself, you burn bridges and put up giant walls. Liberal thought is about giving others a chance to fix their own problems themselves. So I guess you can use your I'm better than you and will bomb your ass. But resentment will build, and terrorism and hate will continue.

Of course we want to push what we want through. But there are much better ways to do so (than walls and burning bridges) that are more effective long-term. Just imagine if we just treated the Soviets as us vs. them and bombed the shit outta them. They would want to defend communism even more, though of course their society was going down the tubes. We appealed to their humanity, of even the communists wanting a better life, and realizing that communism just doesn't serve that purpose. They never wanted to just have a nuclear war and destroy the world.

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 58

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 10:41:18 PM

Leatherist

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The issue with liberals is thier tendency to go into "nanny mode".

You cannot use legislation to force morality and compassiuon-people have to want to.

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Post #: 59

RE: "Liberal" Thoughts - 6/8/2008 10:55:40 PM

chickpea

Posts: 446
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From: Los Angeles Area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

The issue with liberals is thier tendency to go into "nanny mode".

You cannot use legislation to force morality and compassiuon-people have to want to.

Nanny mode (if it were actually true) is better than Domination mode. I think since you're a dominant, you want to treat foreign policy like a D/S relationship. We are not trying to force someone to change who they are, but how they act. It is not imposing our values on them, but rather showing our wants, our strength, and giving them options. That takes work.... I'm sure you'd rather toss money that isn't yours (trillions of the tax payer dollars) and blow people up....much easier....and call all the extra work that can save us trillions, sissy nanny stuff. I think it's smart diplomacy. Forcing our hands, giving options, letting it open doors to long term cooperation. Don't have to be the same (change them if they're different) with everyone to get along with them, just have to treat them with respect. If they refuse to do so, they suffer the consequences. It's that simple. You confuse "speak softly and carry a big stick" with "coddling them".

(in reply to Leatherist)

Post #: 60

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