is it just me???

is it just me??? (Full Version)

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LadyMarmalade1 -> is it just me??? (6/8/2008 1:41:02 AM)
my slave and I have run into an issue. (and in this case i think i am unfortunately using the term slave rather loosely), this "issue" began as his alone, and he tried to communicate it to me, but it was hard for me to see it as a serious problem so i for the most part ignored it, which i admit, is my fault. let me give the background. we are both working full time. we have a 24-7 Ds relationship and are both very busy with work, family etc, and sometimes find it difficult to find time for Ds sessions. I am also a person who isnt bothered by a mess (i am however bothered by dirtiness: banana peels left on the counter, mold in the bathroom etc). I have no problem coming home from work at the end of the day and leaving my shoes in the entrance way and leaving my clothes on the bed. I admit I am also quite absent minded, and when I make dinner every night, I almost always leave a cupboard door open. another thing I should add is that when I am doing things (such as paper work, art projects, reading or anything that involves having things out) I almost always leave them out on the table for a few days and some times longer (in my opinion i will probably use them again). my slave has issues with tidiness. he needs everything to be put away all the time, he gets very irritated about me leaving things out. one more example (and he claims there are many many more) is when we moved into this flat, there were some empty suitcases that (apparently I was responsible for) that i left on the floor in our bedroom. i wasnt sure where to put them and wasnt bothered by having them out, so they stayed on the floor for quite a long time. now, this is the problem that we need help with. im not a neat freak, and my slave is. i tell him that as a slave he should stop bitching about what i leave out and just put it away without complaining. i think that as a slave he should do it automatically, and as a neat freak he should also do it automatically. he thinks that i should incorporate him picking up after me and tidying into our so-called sessions. that i should use his weaknesses and his sub space to make him clean up around the house, basically that i shouldnt expect him to do anything, that i need to make it part of our play time. (another way of putting it is: if we get slave X off the street to serve us, he comes to my house and i should tell him what to do. but with my slave, this flat belongs to both of us, and i think as another person living in this house with me, he should do things automatically. however he wants me to put a collar around his neck and beat him, so he associates it all as part of the session) my apologies for rambling on so much, i hope that our problem is understandable. we are looking for suggestions her on how we can find a happy medium to our differences. thanks in advance Lady Marmalade and her slave coca

pixelslave -> RE: is it just me??? (6/8/2008 2:02:16 AM)
What you describe is somewhat related to teaching your slave anticipatory service. However it also sounds as though he wants to be supervised while he picks up after you so his service is noted and rewarded in some fashion through a form of play. I suggest the two of your talk about what the real needs of the household are as well as what each of you feel you need to get from the relationship through your D/s dynamic. There are some things which simply have to get done from a practical standpoint and it sounds as though your slave is asking you to make getting them done into a form of playtime which you're telling him "no". If that's the case, then are is his needs being met in other ways? If they are, then perhaps he needs to grow up and live with that answer. If not, it seems the question is what would it take to satisfy his needs that would allow both of you to feel as though a win-win situation had been created? - pixel

MissMorrigan -> RE: is it just me??? (6/8/2008 2:13:37 AM)
At the juncture, you should not introduce another person into the household even if it will be strictly service-orientated until you have sorted out your household/relationship with your boy. It sounds as if your boy needs to see/feel you dominating him, so that begs the question, how are you doing this at other times and how is each person's needs met insofar as the D/s aspect and your respective kinks? My boy and I live together, we had difficulties initially with regard to boundaries within the home and had to introduce rituals/routines which we have to adhere to. When I had been at work all day long in a stressful role, the last thing I wanted to do when I came home was stick on my domly hat and prance around beating my boy into doing the chores. It took a great deal of effor to establish our roles/routines and before we focused on any of our kinks, we had to establish the D/s side of things. He is the kind of person that if I relax the reins just a little he starts acting out b/c he subconsciously reacts to it as he feels I am shirking my responsibilities towards him, and he's right, I was. I had to work at shutting down all that he considered were his 'rights'. He now knows that the only privileges he has are the ones he is given, and just as they are given, they are soon removed. As for establishing a routine, when he comes home from his own responsbilities and into our home, the first thing he must do is remove his outdoor clothes and then greet me respectfully. He does the chores throughout the week, I do them at weekends. Each evening and prior to bedtime, if I have left clothes/jewellery/paperwork lying around, he knows his duty is to put them away as well as ensuring the bathroom is clean and ready for the morning. He does not automatically sit on the furniture, he must ask to do so but invariably he will sit at my feet, massaging them as we relax for the evening. Bedtime rituals are also established, he knows to be in the bedroom waiting for me by a set time. I won't go into what we do, as I'm sure you can introduce some of your own, suffice to say that he always goes to bed with something a little sore, whether that be his feet, buttocks, thighs, nipples, scrotum, etc... it helps keep him, and me, focused. There's a tendency for routines to slide with our busy every day lives and it sounds as if your boy is trying to tell you to pick up the reins once again (edited to add the following) - he wants you to interact with him, not simply co-exist in the same household and perhaps likely feels the dynamics of the relationship are changing. Are you prepared to listen to him and adhere to your responsibilities as his dominant partner?

ShiftedJewel -> RE: is it just me??? (6/8/2008 4:15:42 AM)
quote: i think that as a slave he should do it automatically, and as a neat freak he should also do it automatically. he thinks that i should incorporate him picking up after me and tidying into our so-called sessions. that i should use his weaknesses and his sub space to make him clean up around the house, basically that i shouldnt expect him to do anything, that i need to make it part of our play time. *This kind of spoke volumes to me.... Who's topping who?* We've had the same issues here, twice is absolutely insane about things not piling up on tables and the floor, and it doesn't bother me... to a point, but I'm still guilty of it. We have come to an aggreement. She put a small silver tray on legs on the table in the livingroom next to where I sit, that's for me to drop my little "stuff" on and she won't mess with it, in the dining room I have my areas, my sewing tables are a "don't mess with area", period, even Scooter doesn't. And my have my beading desk, another "don't mess with area". I can leave my mess out and no one touches it. Now... if I leave stuff out on the dining table it's fair game and twice "puts it away". Meaning, she gets it off the table. There are times when I can't find what she's put away for days, but that's because she's organized and I'm not... at least, not in the same way. And there are times when my "area's" get over crowded because she doesn't know where to put anything except on those desks. Anyway, back to your issue. Tell him if it bugs him to do something about it, if he doesn't feel that he should have to then let it bug him. As far as making it part of your play time... well, I just don't get that. If I wanted to stand over someone and tell them what to do with every little piece of clutter it wouldn't be there to begin with. The idea of me having my clutter around is because I don't necessarily know what to do with it in the first place... now I'm supposed to stand there and order someone ELSE to do it? What happened to them being there to make my life better and easier? *Jewel*

Madame4a -> RE: is it just me??? (6/8/2008 4:50:41 AM)
My thought is... you're a dominant, not a supervisor. If I had to say everytime to take the garbage out or do dishes, or whatever needed to be done I'd just do it myself.

MistressSybella -> RE: is it just me??? (6/8/2008 12:36:06 PM)
Ooh, it sounds like he needs to be reminded that you are the Mistress, period. Take away some of his freedoms, his control, and remind him that he is not an equal partner but a submissive partner. Tie him up and push him past his limits a bit, remind him that he is not in charge. Cage him. Or simply tie him up and leave him there for a while. Do whatever it takes to get his attention. Also, you might want to set up a rule where he can bring grievances to you just once a week, ior once every two weeks, at designated times but other than that, "complaining" is a punishable offence. If he is such a neat-freak, that is one of your benefits as his Mistress. Make sure he knows it is his job to clean up, straighten up, and so on, and if he doesn't do it, there will be consequences. He shouldn't be irritated that you leave things out but find happiness in that it presents a situation where he can do something for you, to please you. He should not be complaining but taking pride in that he has an owner, that he has a function and purpose within your household. If the submissive doesn't see the value in that, then he isn't a submissive and he needs to be shown the door. He isn't respecting you as the authority figure, and that respect is critical to a D/s relationship. Miss 'Bella ServeMeWell

undergroundsea -> RE: is it just me??? (6/8/2008 3:16:08 PM)
I see both sides of the position and your scenario reminds me of a past discussion about a similar scenario. It could make for a lengthy discussion which I am unable to take on at this sitting. Not everyone considers service part of their BDSM and for those who do, there is a variety of motivations. I think it would help each of you to discuss what service means to each of you, and see what such a discussin yields. Cheers, Sea

SnowRanger -> RE: is it just me??? (6/8/2008 3:27:23 PM)
Dear Lady Marmalade1, Do collared live-in slaves forget how lucky they are? I will not debate the wisdom expressed by the Dominatrises (that is the plural of Dominatrix, right?) who have replied to you. My issue is with your slave. To that end, this section is addressed to him. Wake up sir. You are in a position that many aspire to. Personally, if I were collared by a woman who shows off the feminine power of ankle strap shoes as well as Lady Marmalade does, I would 'shut up and pick up' with out a word of complaint. If this were a 'vanilla' relationship, I would give the same advice. Being a neat freak is your problem. Don't make it your (Plural) problem; and, sure don't make it her problem. Speaking as a man who has spent The Long Trip Alone; I urge you not to blow it. You are a lucky man. Lady Marmalade, please forgive me if I overstepped some boundry by addressing your slave directly. I believe that it needed to be said. Being a neat freak is his problem, not yours Were I in his shoes (if I were allowed to were them), the only time I would say anything is to make sure I don't put something in the wrong place. Well, it's time for me to do some of that ranger stuff.... Respectfully, Mike SnowRanger

BotanicalMiss -> RE: is it just me??? (6/8/2008 3:48:30 PM)
From what you've written, it sounds like he is a slave who needs structure. Not necessarily more playtime, but to have certain things as clear expectations, but he might not know how to express it in that way. In my opinion, if he wants you to beat him, that should be a reward rather than a punishment. You obviously knows what bothers him and what does not bother you. So my thought would be to take up the reins and take control of the situation. Write out a list of expectations regarding housework. If you do the cooking, it's his job to make sure the kitchen is clean, the cabinets are closed, etc; it's his job to be sure the clothes are picked up at the end of the day; it's his job to do whatever it is that you feel needs to be done for both of you to be happy. If you like your paperwork left the way you leave it, he needs to understand THAT is to be left alone. However, if it doesn't bother you either way, perhaps it could be his job to straighten up the paperwork each night, even if it's just putting it in a manilla folder with that day's date on it so you can find it again in a few days. That way it's there for you but still neat. 24/7 IS about compromise, making sure that everyone's needs are fulfilled and sometimes that means we have to take into account certain compulsions of our slave. He's still a person and it is your responsibility to be sure that his mental/emotional health is cared for as well as everything else. If it's just an irritant to him, you can tell him to get over it; but if not, just a little bit of change on your part can make a huge difference for both of you. Along with the list of expectations, I would also make it his job to keep track of the times he doesn't do those chores so you can address them once a week or however often you can do it consistently. I may be wrong, but some serious structure with clear expectations, and consistency from you, might make all the difference in the world. Just my 2 cents....

MsStarlett -> RE: is it just me??? (6/8/2008 4:45:44 PM)
Personally, I'm a total slob. I have actually ended a relationship with a really great guy because he was a neat freak. It's rather difficult for the Oscars and Felixes of the world to actually live together in the real world.

Blessedmistress -> RE: is it just me??? (6/8/2008 8:38:07 PM)
slave...the one who serves.... Mistress... the one who gives the orders...implied or not.... Negotiation...MAY NOT BE AN ISSUE IF YOU REALLY OWN HIS ASS. I rarely negotiate anything with my slave, he is a slave, he does what I say...there is a set of rules. I say, he does. But, I am a little bit of a neat freak...so daily cleaning of the house, weekly cleaning of the bathrooms, constant laundry is part of his service. If he gets mouthy about anything (rarely) I just tell him we can chuck the BDSM in our relationship and have a vanilla relationship with missionary sex. He generally snaps to. Also, I use restriction...no sex, affection, or masturbation for the duration of time I deem. 2 weeks is the most he has served...so far. I get the full time work/kids/family/school in our house...not a lot of time for play. We schedule it...a certain day of the week, no chores...just play. It is all about time management. Blessed Mistress

TNstepsout -> RE: is it just me??? (6/8/2008 9:01:36 PM)
I'm with BotanicalMiss on this one. I think when he says it should be part of play, what he really means is that he is asking you to guide and direct that aspect of the household. Perhaps what he's feeling is not so much frustration that you don't pick up after yourself, but that you don't address it at all. He might be happy to take on that role, but feels as if he's overstepping his position, to just jump in a do without your instruction. Take some time to think how it would help you to have him tidy up after you and how his services can best benefit both of you and then put together a plan for the maintenance of the house. Then if he does a great job you can incorporate it into "play" from time to time as a reward. Maybe he just wants you to appreciate the value of what he does.

EvilKitty -> RE: is it just me??? (6/8/2008 10:45:20 PM)
Like BotanicalMiss & TNstepsout, it does appear that much of the problem could be solved by sitting down & negotiating more rules. When you keep using the phrase "he SHOULD do thus&such", you are making an assumption that he has already agreed to do these things. Perhaps an itemized list of which things he's allowed/expected to put away, clean, tidy or otherwise change from the way YOU left it would help both of you. It may give the added dimension of "play" that you both seem to have too little of! 24/7 is a tough road to negotiate, but worth the effort to adapt through the years. I wish you good fortune with this; may it lead to an even deeper relationship!

TexasMaam -> RE: is it just me??? (6/9/2008 2:22:35 AM)
If you value him as a partner, then make the effort to pick up after yourself. It's simply a matter of replacing bad habits with good habits. This is not a Domme sub issue. This is a "We All Have Room for Improvement" issue. Even Dommes. This is a personality/lifestyle issue. He wants a neat and orderly home, you're ok w/organized chaos. Sit down and make a schedule for yourself. Find a happy time of day when you can make a quick run through the house, twice a day, to tidy up after your little abent minded oversights. In time- you'll remember to close the kitchen cabinet after yourself the moment you're finished in the cupboard. In time- you'll remember to hang your sweater up the instant you take it off, instead of leaving it on the bed. In time- you'll remember to store the valise in the closet as soon as it's emptied rather than leave it on the floor and walk past it every day for eight weeks. Keep reminding yourself to 'never put off until tomorrow what you can do today' and replace your untidy habits with tidy ones. It's only a matter of habit. Make him happy. Improve your habits. By improving your habits, you will motivate him to spend more of his time tending to your needs rather than picking up after you. He'll have time to wash windows, or will take it upon himself to do something special for you in the yard or around the house. Nothing breeds resentment more than being either taken for granted OR just being held in total disregard. If you can improve your habits to accommodate his pet peeve, do it. With All Due Respect, TexasMaam

MissMagnolia -> RE: is it just me??? (6/9/2008 3:04:10 AM)
I'm with snowranger. It's not up to me to change myself for the benefit of my slave. Slaves that I am talking to, even before meeting them, are told what their duties would be, including housework and other chores. If they choose to go ahead with the possibility of me collaring them at some time, there are no surprises. They know from day one what will be expected of them. I also can't see my slave getting "irritated" with me about anything. Period. And the whole "let's make it part of play so I get what I want" idea??? No chance. A slave does what he/she does because that is his/her role, not because they think they are getting something back. There's a whole lot of topping from the bottom going on there.

shivermetimbers -> RE: is it just me??? (6/9/2008 4:49:50 AM)
I'm not a germophobe, or a total neat freak, but messes or clutter bother me, so I simply clean it and put it away. If he's truly a neat freak, it shouldn't bother him at all, you're actually providing an outlet for part of his makeup. I'm not there in person to see the dynamic, but I don't see a person complaining about having to clean up after you, I see a person complaining he isn't getting a scooby snack for doing so.

MsCfromMelbourne -> RE: is it just me??? (6/9/2008 8:06:53 AM)
I am neat and tidy, but I live with an absolutely pedantic neat freak of a submissive. Could your submissive be trying to tell you (in his own subtle way) that he works just as hard as you do, and he now resents that when he gets home he also has to do all the housework? And that does not feel like Domination, it feels like exploitation? Did he consent to do all the housework without request or reward? Is housework his kink? If not - with all due respect - I think he wants you to pull your weight. Either start cleaning up after yourself or start making it fun to clean up after you. Be careful taking advice from tough talking Dommes who do not actually live with a male slave or submissive (or have never done so successfully). They are describing a theoretical nirvana where subs wait on Mistresses all day while you do nothing but sit on your butt watching TV and scoffing chocolates. Sorry but that fantasy is completely unrealistic in 24/7 D/s unless your partner has a housework fetish[:D]. All D/s relationships have to be constant mutual exchange (give and take) balancing both partner's needs or they collapse fast

CuriousPuppy -> RE: is it just me??? (6/9/2008 2:34:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyMarmalade1 my slave and I have run into an issue. (and in this case i think i am unfortunately using the term slave rather loosely), this "issue" began as his alone, and he tried to communicate it to me, but it was hard for me to see it as a serious problem so i for the most part ignored it, which i admit, is my fault. let me give the background. we are both working full time. we have a 24-7 Ds relationship and are both very busy with work, family etc, and sometimes find it difficult to find time for Ds sessions. I am also a person who isnt bothered by a mess (i am however bothered by dirtiness: banana peels left on the counter, mold in the bathroom etc). I have no problem coming home from work at the end of the day and leaving my shoes in the entrance way and leaving my clothes on the bed. I admit I am also quite absent minded, and when I make dinner every night, I almost always leave a cupboard door open. another thing I should add is that when I am doing things (such as paper work, art projects, reading or anything that involves having things out) I almost always leave them out on the table for a few days and some times longer (in my opinion i will probably use them again). my slave has issues with tidiness. he needs everything to be put away all the time, he gets very irritated about me leaving things out. one more example (and he claims there are many many more) is when we moved into this flat, there were some empty suitcases that (apparently I was responsible for) that i left on the floor in our bedroom. i wasnt sure where to put them and wasnt bothered by having them out, so they stayed on the floor for quite a long time. now, this is the problem that we need help with. im not a neat freak, and my slave is. i tell him that as a slave he should stop bitching about what i leave out and just put it away without complaining. i think that as a slave he should do it automatically, and as a neat freak he should also do it automatically. he thinks that i should incorporate him picking up after me and tidying into our so-called sessions. that i should use his weaknesses and his sub space to make him clean up around the house, basically that i shouldnt expect him to do anything, that i need to make it part of our play time. (another way of putting it is: if we get slave X off the street to serve us, he comes to my house and i should tell him what to do. but with my slave, this flat belongs to both of us, and i think as another person living in this house with me, he should do things automatically. however he wants me to put a collar around his neck and beat him, so he associates it all as part of the session) my apologies for rambling on so much, i hope that our problem is understandable. we are looking for suggestions her on how we can find a happy medium to our differences. thanks in advance Lady Marmalade and her slave coca MsCfromMelbourne makes a very good point about some of the hardline responses you've gotten. This isn't specifically a D/s issue as much as it is a two people living together issue. The fact that you said that you are using the term slave rather loosely implies that it's not entirely accurate and that submissive or partner is a better term. Your sub/partner tried to bring up your habits and was ignored previously. By your own admission you are both working; so unless he's working at mcdonalds after classes while your working at a lawfirm or something, the two of you might need to reexamine what's acceptable when it comes to tidyness. The examples you gave would have driven me up the wall, and I'm not even a neatfreak. You might not know where some suitcases should go, but you could either ask where they should go or just stuff them on a shelf/corner in a closet (which is a perfectly reasonable spot for a suitcase) somewhere rather than leaving them on the bedroom floor. Closing the cabinet doors? Again, that's pretty hard to justify as an unreasonable request unless your a parapalegic or something.

Vendaval -> RE: is it just me??? (6/9/2008 2:53:38 PM)
Greetings LadyMarmalade1, How about having chore check lists and dividing the living arrangement into common areas and those that are for one persons use only, as Shifted Jewel mentioned. And work the rewards and punishments accordingly. Regards, Vendaval quote: ORIGINAL: LadyMarmalade1 now, this is the problem that we need help with. im not a neat freak, and my slave is. i tell him that as a slave he should stop bitching about what i leave out and just put it away without complaining. i think that as a slave he should do it automatically, and as a neat freak he should also do it automatically. he thinks that i should incorporate him picking up after me and tidying into our so-called sessions. that i should use his weaknesses and his sub space to make him clean up around the house, basically that i shouldnt expect him to do anything, that i need to make it part of our play time.

RedMagic1 -> RE: is it just me??? (6/9/2008 3:31:33 PM)
I agree 100% with MsCFromMelbourne.

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