Balance V. Equality (Full Version)

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BoiJen -> Balance V. Equality (6/9/2008 8:29:41 AM)

Balance V. Equality (Those not used to just seeing the "V." it means "vs.")

I'm one of those people who doesn't think power based relationships are about equality. They are about balance. Everything adds up to 100% but it doesn't mean 50/50. In the dynamic I'm in, it's more like 90/10, in Her favor. And I'm happy within that.

What brings this up is reading the "is it just me?" thread. And instead of responding to that thread and possibly throwing it off base...I decided to write my own thread.

I'm not aneat person...mostly. I'm actually pretty neurotic in the sense of I can let the house get pretty messy (note: not dirty) and after a point I get crazy and clean stuff to just about spotless...and then the cycle starts again. MsK is the type to want things tidy...we've started a "game."..."Tidy means sexy for Me...so do it." Code like "Make My house sexy" means "tidy up, boi." This does not result in Her watching my every move...it means she says something and I do it...and mostly I'm okay with that. Sometimes I feel nagged and I get frustarted but do it anyways and we move on.

The point is...it's not how I would naturally do things. AND this is a dynamic that is most natural for me (and Her obviously...the point is that it would be the same for me no matter what). So not being 50/50 means that I do things "Her way" or at least to Her satisfaction. That's my job. That's what I signed on for. That's what D/s means. If our dynamic was something else we'd have to call it something else...not D/s.

So in the end we're balanced...not equal.

I've been told I'm "extreme" in that regard. I don't think so really.

So what do you as a D-type, s-type, male, female, whatever.....what do subscribe to in handling issues or the structure of your dynamic?

boiJen
"Let the bodies hit the floor!!"
4 days til SELF bitches! yeah!




LaTigresse -> RE: Balance V. Equality (6/9/2008 8:34:26 AM)

It all makes perfect sense to me.

My question is there ever anything where she compromises and cuts some slack towards "your way" or is it always always her way regardless of what is comfortable for you?

For myself, I would say I am more hardass than slack cutter. Just depends on the issue and how strongly I feel about it.




BoiJen -> RE: Balance V. Equality (6/9/2008 8:40:22 AM)

Ha! I like getting questions back.

That's why it's 90/10. That 10 part is the cross over and the slack cutting combined. I enjoy service and I enjoy doing things for Her, "Her way." I'm not too picky about it being "my way." She has phases of being more or less strict about things...occassionally I'm instructed to buy a pair of white cotton gloves from CVS so She can inspect. And other times She just walks in and says "okay this is good." Keeps me on my toes.

I don't think the equality part is a comment on my value as or Her's as a person but rather where the power in the relationship is. Hince, balanced not equal.




DominantJenny -> RE: Balance V. Equality (6/9/2008 8:48:46 AM)

Hrm.

I think there needs to be a fairly equal level of satisfaction in the relationship...that said, I am very much about having things my way. At one point, I took this to an extreme that ended up bringing stress and misery to both of us, so I backed off a bit and recognized that sometimes his way is as valid as my way and the thing gets done. But that's definitely dramatically more rare than the times when he does things my way completely.
For example, I am an introvert and he is an extrovert, both very true to type. The only real expression he gets for his extroversion is at work. I never socialize more than I'm comfortable with/would anyway.
He has bent over backwards and then some for me...and I can't say I've done the same, although I do work hard to make sure he is happy.
As LaTigresse said, a lot depends on the issue and how strongly I feel about it.




LaTigresse -> RE: Balance V. Equality (6/9/2008 8:52:43 AM)

That wonderful word called service. The joy of service. Something so few people, that do not enjoy this type of relationship, understands.

Many people get the dominant thrill, but so few understand, joy of service. To them it is unfair, unequal, etc etc. They do not get the balance.

Oddly, it was one of the hardest things for me to comprehend and become comfortable with. "You mean you ENJOY doing this for me?!?!" came from my mouth more times than I can count.

To a degree I sometimes still don't understand why someone enjoys service, I just accept that they do. I'm happy, they are happy.




boyforyouruse -> RE: Balance V. Equality (6/9/2008 9:08:37 PM)

The reluctance to accept service is in my opinion one of the main things keeping more women from embracing dominance. They can't get over feeling bad or that they are using someone else, even if being "used" is exactly what the other person craves. On many occasions I've spent considerable effort explaining my position, getting a feel for where she stands and what her interests are, but nothing can move forward in a D/s sense because she's just not ready/able to accept service, even if everything else is a go (interaction, respect, etc)

From a symmetry equals beauty standpoint I very much enjoy the idea of the power adding up to 100%, but it being unequal. BoiJen stated their relationship is 90/10, and that it worked for them. I was pondering what other combinations would work for D/s. Certainly 80/20, yes? 70/30, .. yeah. What about 60/40? 50/50? Is 40/60 "topping from the bottom"? Is 10/90 paying a professional Dominatrix? (That almost felt Logic 101, but instead of syllogisms we're defining Valid D/s. HA!)




LadyHibiscus -> RE: Balance V. Equality (6/9/2008 9:23:43 PM)

See, I *expect* to be served, and  I am startled when someone wants to be my personal submissive but then doesn't step up to the plate from the get-go.  It's not even that I get pleasure from being served, it's just what I expect, and as a person who was raised to serve, I know based on years of practice what needs to be done.  It's a drag sometimes, but it's the job.





RumpusParable -> RE: Balance V. Equality (6/9/2008 9:25:06 PM)

I'm in discussions elsewhere about this very thing.  And in trying to talk about it here I wrote a damned novel and deleted it lol.

Short version:  I want the opposite of what most seem to want here and other places of similar discussion.  I'm not seeking nor consider it a D/s relationship if it's "we're first and foremost and always equals underneath, but with that understood we choose to act like we're inequal".  I'm seeking and view a D/s relationship as "we're first and foremost and always inequal underneath, even if sometimes I treat you like an equal".

Compatibility in our desires and styles.  "Balance" as you put it, rather than equality.  I want X from my perspective, they want the compliment of Y from their perspective.

They don't need to be friends, lovers, romantic partners.  Just pleasantly getting along is enough.  Mutually enjoyment of meeting our individual needs.

Sometimes they've *been* friends, lovers and romantic partners but those aren't *requirements* for me.

I'm happier the more lopsided things are, the more the balance is topheavy.  In truth, it's hard for me to view most of any that are less than 80/20 as even being D/s in most cases.  In any group of 2 or more people someone ends up getting their way more than the other(s), just because of the social structuring natural to humans and the fact that there's always that person in the group who cares the most or is more a leading personality.  Being in charge most or getting one's way most often isn't the same as being dominant in a dynamic based in power exchange.

Hell, I'm in a dual-dominant non-D/s marriage where I get my way at least 70% of the time.  Not because my spouse submits to me, but because of our differences in personality types.  I'm uptight, he's not.  I *Really Care* about what movie we see tonight, he's just glad to be out with me doing whatever.  We're thinking of a vacation 6 months from now?  Let me see what the hostel and hotel rates are; compare bus, driving and train costs and schedules; make notes on points of interest and their hours; etc.    He starts looking into it a month beforehand and I set up the pie charts of expenses I made to show him when we first mentioned it.

So being the one who makes most of the decisions isn't the definer of D/s to me... it's just the norm, with him and others in vanilla situations, unless I tightly control myself.  Which I do and am getting very good at.

I'm happiest when it's as unevenly balanced as possible with clear indications that they are actually submitting to me, and not just caring less.  To me, it's not submission if you'd not rather do it another way or at another time.  All of us do for other people, on other people's schedules, every day... that's just getting along with other humans, especially those we see more than once in a while.  Nor does the fact that I do things my sub or slave's way sometimes when I'm not opposed to it negate my dominance, for that same reason... it's just basic interaction.

80/20 or more, basis of inequality, submission -not just being less uptight than me, but giving over to my way.  In return, I give that same to those who are happy the opposite way :)

As it says in my profile and other places, I can enjoy interactions less intense but that's when I'm most comfortable and fulfilled in a power exchange.

And yes, that *was* the short version.




BoiJen -> RE: Balance V. Equality (6/10/2008 6:10:18 AM)

MsRumpus,

I'll say it again...you and MsK have plenty in common! I would very much like to hear the long version sometime over the next weekend please? This is eciting for me...and likely to lead to a discussion on the 12hr drive on Thursday...and Monday. lol

boiJen
"Let The Bodies Hit The Floor!!"




thetammyjo -> RE: Balance V. Equality (6/10/2008 6:37:44 AM)

I like to think of my ownership of Fox has having flexible balance if we want to use the idea of who has the power.

My power between us ranges from 51% to 95% at the extreme ends. I'm always mistress so I always have the majority but let's be honest when he's visiting his parents or at work how much authority can I honestly exercise?

I think you are absolutely right, BoiJen, that if we were equals then this couldn't be Ds but I think it could be SM or bondage or play time fun. However we did come to this dynamic first as equals who decided together that an authority dynamic or if you like a power exchange was what would work best for us. For me, we needed to be equals first in order to give consent -- inequality before would have negated what I consider to be the cornerstone of BDSM: consent.




cluelessslave -> RE: Balance V. Equality (6/10/2008 7:07:00 AM)

I would not have the conceptual framework to evaluate a relationship dynamic. I go by carots and sticks. I'm a behaviorist not an idealist. If there is a reward in it I do it, or if I like the punishment for not doing it, then I won't do it. If laundry was not supposed to end up on the floor then why is there gravity?




cloudboy -> RE: Balance V. Equality (6/10/2008 7:14:39 AM)

It does seem like percentages would slide in any relationship depending on the people. As you indicate, there is no one comfort zone for everyone.

Minding what works as opposed projecting rigid expectations always seems like a good strategy to me.

Advanced folks also know that 90/10 works one day and 40/60 works another (with the same person.)




LaTigresse -> RE: Balance V. Equality (6/10/2008 7:41:01 AM)

I love what Rumpus wrote. It is very reflective of the way I am beginning to see myself as time goes by.

I used to think I wanted a submissive woman that was kind of kinky but still less a slave than just sexually submissive. But a submissive romantic life partner.

NOW, I am more of the mindset of a M/s dynamic. It just fits where my head is at right now.




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