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trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/10/2008 10:46:17 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Re: being made to do something or being "forced"

I tend to think in abstract so I'm working on elucidating my thoughts and feelings.  I like humiliation, I like being "forced" to do things ("forced" meaning they are not those that fall into the "no, not in this lifetime" catagory).

So I'm thinking of several catagories and why I like them.

1.  The things that I should do but when I only have myself to hold me accountable, I don't do as well as I'd like.  This includes exercising, eating healthy, spending less.  It doesn't make me hot to be told to do any of these, but it does help me be a better person because I work harder to follow his plan then it is to follow my own.

2.  Those things that I do not enjoy because of the act but I enjoy because he enjoys.  At one point he had me make a list of things I like to do, things I don't like to do/am apathetic about and things that I don't want to ever do.  There are things on the second list that he enjoys and when he requests them just the act of service becomes the aphrodesiac itself.  Though I would never do any of them without prompting, in fact I think that it's the prompting, the knowing that that is what he desires at the time that I like.

3.  Now the third catagory is where I really have the problem-- there are things that I fantasize about, things that maybe sound distasteful except if I were "forced" to to them.  For example, I could gag myself, handcuff my hands behind my back and kneel naked for an hour, but it would mean nothing.  Or he can bind me and gag me and order me, with threat of punishment, to kneel and leave me there and I'd be dripping when he returned.  The other day I was rubbing lotion on his feet and at one point his foot was resting on my chest, his toes near my mouth and I thought how hot it would be if he ordered me to suck them. 

Now part of my problem with #3 is that I almost feel ashamed to admit those desires, but I also feel as if some of the aura of the acts would be diminished if he created the sceen because it was what I wanted, when the goal is that I would not be in charge and not doing what I wanted.

So if anyone understands the ramblings and can elucidate better then I can, I'd appreciate it.

_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade
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RE: trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/10/2008 11:25:40 AM   
christine1


Posts: 6155
Joined: 12/15/2007
From: i'm headed to HIM...
Status: offline 		hello Omega,

i can only respond in ways that i relate to your post.  in a short and simply reply....maybe if you shared all of your fantasies, even the ones that embarrased you and the ones that you are ashamed of (if you have those)...he could take matters into his own hands, in his own time and do with them what he will.  (i have no idea of your relationship so i can only answer to what i get a feel for.)

sharing thoughts and feelings is basic, at least to me.  i need to be able to share everything with him, no matter how humiliating or embarrasing it is.  if he knows my true base feelings and needs and desires then he can act on them.  that doesnt' mean that i topped from the bottom if he acted on something i mentioned to him. 

it is sharing and reacting on the most basic of levels...it works if both parties are concerned for the others wants and needs.

i hope this makes sense....i think complete openness goes a long way in fulfillment.

edited because tuesday afternoons make difficult spelling times for me...

< Message edited by christine1 -- 6/10/2008 11:27:51 AM >

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He's the "boom" overwhelming...

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(in reply to OmegaG)
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RE: trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/10/2008 12:02:51 PM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		I guess it's not even so much about being embarressed or ashamed (as I dig humiliation, so telling him a nasty, dirty, perverted desire would get me hot too).

It's like planning my own surprise birthday party, kind of just isn't right.

_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to christine1)
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RE: trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/10/2008 3:44:14 PM   
lally3


Posts: 595
Joined: 3/4/2008
Status: offline 		..... so what youre saying is that you need him to be telepathic - except that wouldnt work either, given your premis that owning up to these desires telepathically or otherwise, would still be topping from the bottom, erm.... telepathically (ive had some wine, so please make allowances....)

i do see what you mean, the power of control is immediately diminished when you know it is something he is doing for you because you want it or think you want it and having to ask takes the power away from him - it makes the pleasure of giving less as a result.

perhaps you could make one request that covers all of them.  ask that he make it a rule that whenever you have one of these abstract thoughts you are requested to share it with him.  he can choose to act on it then or at another time or not atall.  it would be fun, maybe funny to share, it has an intimacy you could both enjoy and it would bring these private little thoughts of yours out into the open and he will see a whole new agenda to play with - that way you are not topping from the bottom, simply adhering to his request - a request you asked for initiatly its true, but whatever squirmy yukky feelings you get from that will fade quite quickly id think.

just a thought. 


(in reply to OmegaG)
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RE: trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/10/2008 4:09:54 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I understand your feelings and they are silly.  It's highly related to the "he should KNOW what I want" mentality.

Face your fear- just because he does something for your direct pleasure does not mean he is not your dominant or that you are controlling things.  He does things because HE chooses to do them.

To withhold is the true form of control here.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to lally3)
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RE: trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/10/2008 4:47:53 PM   
chickpea


Posts: 446
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Los Angeles Area
Status: offline 		Re: #3 ...  Well, I get embarrassed totally expressing my wants (and I have the strangest wants...especially growing up in a conservative family, I feel tremendous shame for wanting these things, incredibly embarrassing).  while I was in my relationship, I was caught reading some kinky-control stories on the internet.  He was street smart enough to figure out that this is what I really want, and he had and the power he had in making my fantasies a reality.  So, he just goes about implementing it without asking or letting me know later on. 

This is totally consensual (eventhough I never said yes, god dam that's what I want!), because he knows I want it and has seen me drool over these stories.  I will never admit (or never mentioned before) that I want it.  And he's in a position to make them come true.  Well?  Unless he doesn't care for them to come true or to make me happy or he's dingy enough not to beable to figure out that's what I want...... and that's what I want to happen if he wants to make me happy...... (...ummm... duhrr...  mini *eye roll*)

I agree, it's so damned boring if they ask you every step of the way..*eye roll*.  It's like, why do I need you for?  To bug the hell out of me???  I don't want to play 20 questions, I want to play my fantasies.  And my fantasies *don't*include*answering*questions EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.  Unless he wants to be with someone else like miss yackity yack, he should beable to surprise you like that...if your fantasy is surprise.  If guys have to constantly ask you stuff in scene, they are just too damn lazy to figure it out ahead of time...it kills the scene, the fantasy of having all the control with your Master.

(in reply to lally3)
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RE: trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/10/2008 5:00:06 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		See?  That's the "He should KNOW what I want" mindset.  Kills a lot of good relationships.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to chickpea)
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RE: trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/10/2008 5:15:17 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		This sounds very much like the way he approaches our submission to him.  There is a balance that he keeps of things we find pleasurable, things we are indifferent to and things that are challenges to us.  If we find the scale tipping more one way than another, I will let him know that I am either feeling too challenged right now or not challenged enough.

He knows from our many conversations how we respond to different activities, so he has a great many things to choose from.  I can very much appreciate the reluctance to say during the middle of something that "you know, if you made me do X, that would be really hot".  However, you can't expect him to read your mind either.   I get over the reluctance by reminding myself that not sharing the thoughts, is me deciding that it won't happen and I don't get to make those types of decisions. 

That may or may not work for you depending on how the authority structure is set up in your relationship.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to OmegaG)
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RE: trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/10/2008 7:49:45 PM   
slavedevotion


Posts: 2
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		I would have to agree that expecting dominants to be mind readers do not bode well for the longevity or health of the relationship. There are numerous interests I have that I feel reluctant to share with M. Sometimes he does make me tell him directly what I am fantasizing about, but generally I leave text messages; send him pictures; or bookmark websites and place in a folder for him.

There are some interests he has no affinity for so I will most likely never experience. However he has the knowledge of what pushes my buttons... and he can use that for a mindfuck, if nothing else. I turned over ownership of myself to him, and that includes my thoughts no matter how uncomfortable they may be to share or speak aloud...they are not mine. And like with everything else he can do what he chooses with the information provided.


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/10/2008 8:48:40 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chickpea

Re: #3 ...  Well, I get embarrassed totally expressing my wants (and I have the strangest wants...especially growing up in a conservative family, I feel tremendous shame for wanting these things, incredibly embarrassing).  while I was in my relationship, I was caught reading some kinky-control stories on the internet.  He was street smart enough to figure out that this is what I really want, and he had and the power he had in making my fantasies a reality.  So, he just goes about implementing it without asking or letting me know later on. 

This is totally consensual (eventhough I never said yes, god dam that's what I want!), because he knows I want it and has seen me drool over these stories.  I will never admit (or never mentioned before) that I want it.  And he's in a position to make them come true.  Well?  Unless he doesn't care for them to come true or to make me happy or he's dingy enough not to beable to figure out that's what I want...... and that's what I want to happen if he wants to make me happy...... (...ummm... duhrr...  mini *eye roll*)

I agree, it's so damned boring if they ask you every step of the way..*eye roll*.  It's like, why do I need you for?  To bug the hell out of me???  I don't want to play 20 questions, I want to play my fantasies.  And my fantasies *don't*include*answering*questions EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.  Unless he wants to be with someone else like miss yackity yack, he should beable to surprise you like that...if your fantasy is surprise.  If guys have to constantly ask you stuff in scene, they are just too damn lazy to figure it out ahead of time...it kills the scene, the fantasy of having all the control with your Master.


I know what you mean. I used to just send girls a few pictures I scrounged here and there, and waited for the reactions. Had them send a few back,"artistic interpretations." Outside of disease risks-bodily harm,etc...."illegal activities"............(involving entities unable to give consent) not much is off my lists of fun.
 
 I don't read minds. It's better to tell me what you  can NOT handle, and then see what happens from there. I wonder why more sub girls cannot trust thier partners to be open minded about something as simple as kink?
 
 Perhaps it's a better issue to look at the behavior that you project that INHIBITS them?

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My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to chickpea)
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RE: trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/10/2008 9:22:39 PM   
Owner4SexSlave


Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline 		I'm totally aware and have delt with the "I wish he KNOW what's on my mind" mindset.   Don't expect for your Dom to just magically see what's on your mind.

Personally, I've had to come up with methods to help combat this, because I know how timid you submissives can get at times.

I like to play the what if "mind fuck" game at times, however this is based and limited to my imagination. 

I might start off with "Let's see what should I do with you..." and start running through things thinking out loud.  Basically I'll be looking for how somebody responds to things that I'm considering about doing.

There are times when I make outlandish activities threats as well.   Just to get a reaction.  However I'm really doing a lot of mind probing while I'm in the middle of mind fucking with somebody.

I myself tend to be a bit of tease.  I can be in the middle of a completely normal activitity such as shopping.  I literally got somebody worked up, because I made her put her hands on the trunk of the car, bend over slightly, and I made a what if threat, what if I were to take her right there in the parking lot with all the people passing by.  Whamo, instant reaction, however in reality I'm probing and exploring things.  Such as the thoughts about having sex in front of other people, perhaps exploring the elements of taking risks in playing in public places.   Basically, I knew she'd be more then into one night while passing through a side walk tunnel late at night.  We stopped made her put her hands on the wall, made her spread her legs and did the nasty nasty there.  Why? Because I tested it out in the parking lot previously.  She had expressed to me about how hot and bothered it had made her before. 

The only reason why us Doms appear to be mind readers at times is because we have probed the hell out of submissives mind, It's just not limited to kink and sex either.  We literally take note of a subs reactions and responses.  Get them to open up and talk.   Trust me, many of us DOMs want to know Exactly what is on your mind, that's the only way we can take control and Master things fully.   Not only Master our own kinks and desires but Master a submissives Kinks and desires as well.   At least this is my style, my method and way of dealing with this.

Anyways, have no shame in expressing what really turns you on to your Dom/Master/Daddy/Mistress/Owner/Partner/Lover whatever.   If not, you'll be sitting there forever in silence, while time slips on by while your mind is caught up in Fantasy La La land.    It's OK for submissives to have Fantasies, Kinks and things that turn a submissive on.  I would hope that anybody I'm with has these things, else I'd actually start to wonder how much a blow up doll I was with. 

(in reply to OmegaG)
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RE: trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/11/2008 7:22:10 AM   
OmegaG


Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		FR

thanks for everyone's feedback, I feel better that I'm not alone or strange.  A quirk of mine is that I've always been a sexual person physically but had difficulty with "talking dirty" or voicing my fantasies or desires and I do feel somewhat like a prude because of this.  It's gotten better as I've forced myself to become less self consious about it and it helps when ones partner doesn't pass judgement on what he hears.

For clarification, I never expected him to read my mind, I know my crystal ball isn't always functioning properly, why would his.

When we first began, I relied on fictional short stories or relating my dreams to him as a way of presenting my thoughts, it felt safe that way, after all, I wasn't the heroine in the stories and no one can really control their dreams.  For what ever reason (probably my upcoming move and job transition), I kind of forgot that I'd been doing that.  I was thinking last night that it might be a practice that I could resurrect.

Again, thanks for the help.

_____________________________


Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to Owner4SexSlave)
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RE: trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/11/2008 8:51:54 AM   
wanderingstray


Posts: 26
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline 		Sometimes being told is to be given permission. The other thing is, when you do something just on your own, where is the interaction with someone else?

Do something with me
Do something to me
Do something for me

When I have you do something for me, or I do something to you, my will provides you with direction, purpose and instruction; I am trading with you, your obedience for my attention, approval and acceptance..and permission. I am beyond your control and so what I do to you or ask of you must be external to your own mind, and so it is something to respond to; it is stimulating. You are a button and I push you so you can do whatever it is that you do, when you get pushed. Then as you respond, doing the thing and once it is done, you get even more reaction from me, for a good dose of attention. The human mind is alert, eager, curious and creative when dealing with things unknown. When all you do is stimulate yourself you already know what is going to happen, and you can control it. That brings much less of your awareness into play than play with someone else.

If I say, try and find some way to please me, you can be filled with doubts and distracted by fears. In your imagination come alive all the ways you could fail and the unpleasant results. But when I say clearly what you are to do, then you have the assurance of a good result. It becomes a logical certainty that effort and compliance will result in a reward. If you have an urge to do something but you have no idea how I would react, you risk screwing up. If I told you to do that same thing, you would have permission and jump right to it gladly.

When I am told what to do I am being touched by someone else in a way that I can easily understand. They touch me in a way that frees me up to act without worry, letting me focus on the task and not doubts or fears. When they touch me in a way that is deeply intimate then something personal comes across, something that perhaps cannot even be named, but seems entirely real and sincere. Sometimes just by having simple rules and using basic commands, a relationship can be cleared of the noisy clutter of the human mind, allowing us to touch directly, have deep and intense feelings, and enjoy the sensations that are built into being human.


< Message edited by wanderingstray -- 6/11/2008 8:53:08 AM >

(in reply to OmegaG)
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RE: trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/11/2008 4:34:32 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If he chooses to do something because he knows you want it, then it is still his choice. One way around your dilemna however is to put those kinds of things on slips of paper in a jar and allow him to decide when or if, he'll ever order you to do it.

But denying him information about you is equal to lying. Do it in email, or a journal if you have problems face to face. And explain your worry that if you know he's just doing it as a favor to you, you may not enjoy it. Who knows, he could use that as a wicked mindfuck in and of itself?

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RE: trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/11/2008 4:47:02 PM   
mzbehavin


Posts: 253
Joined: 1/15/2008
Status: offline 		In my world, if i wanted to suck his toe, i would've just done it. If he didn't like it, he would let me know. I think the element of surprise should work both ways sometimes.
Just make a list of naughty thoughts and leave it for him to ponder at his leisure. (?)
Other than that, the below post made me giggle. Is this ok? Do you like this? Hows this? Gads, spare me please. 20 questions sucks.


quote:

ORIGINAL: chickpea
I agree, it's so damned boring if they ask you every step of the way..*eye roll*.  It's like, why do I need you for?  To bug the hell out of me???  I don't want to play 20 questions, I want to play my fantasies.  And my fantasies *don't*include*answering*questions EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.  Unless he wants to be with someone else like miss yackity yack, he should be able to surprise you like that...if your fantasy is surprise.  If guys have to constantly ask you stuff in scene, they are just too damn lazy to figure it out ahead of time...it kills the scene, the fantasy of having all the control with your Master.


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There's never really a good time for the whole Man to Beast thing...Just kind of~Whaum! and hope for the best...
ToTo from The O.Z.

(in reply to chickpea)
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RE: trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/11/2008 5:01:01 PM   
tinkerbelle3


Posts: 55
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline 		In our house, he's happy when I'm happy and I'm happy when he's happy. Having said that, I understand your concern of possibly topping from the bottom. But, I think that sharing your desires doesn't necessarily mean that he'll have you fulfill them. He may listen to you and put it in his back pocket and use it as a reward. On the other hand, the more that you are together, you'll learn what excites him, what brings him pleasure. Maybe you'll find out that licking his toes is on his list. (It IS lovely to give a foot massage then kiss and lick his toes isn't it?)

The way that I view things is I communicate, communicate, and then communicate. How he chooses to use the information I offer him is ALWAYS his decision.

- tinkerbelle

(in reply to mzbehavin)
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RE: trying to make sense of my abstract thoughts - 6/11/2008 5:33:56 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		You know how people always say how essential communication is?  Well this is part of why.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to tinkerbelle3)
Profile   Post #: 17
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