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A test, and/or a lesson - 6/10/2008 2:13:55 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I was reading another thread when I came across this:
[Maybe it was a test or lesson of some sort. ]

Every now and then I see people say that.  Usually in conjuction with sharing, straying, lack of calls, communication, ect.
It makes me wonder how many people use the premise of teaching, in order to get things their way without question.
Why do we do it?  Why would we accept it?  Are people really so deep that they plan "lessons" for your betterment?  Or is it more of a spur of the moment thing?
I am vaguely curious.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

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RE: A test, and/or a lesson - 6/10/2008 2:34:42 PM   
Deliena


Posts: 623
Joined: 6/16/2007
From: Darlington, United Kingdom
Status: offline 		I think it tends to be more common in LDR situations from what I've read and experienced.  (as an actual lesson / teaching tool)

A lot of people 'test' their relationships, but the people that tend to do that tend not to be the sorts of people I'd want to be in a relationship with as when it's a RL situation testing me usually indicates you don't trust me in someway (whether that's simply to do as I am told or in some other context).

(in reply to Missokyst)
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RE: A test, and/or a lesson - 6/10/2008 2:35:42 PM   
SnowRanger


Posts: 503
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Sinsinnati
Status: offline 		Dear Missokyst,

I apologize in advance if I have missed the mark on your posting.  Personally, I view a lack of communication to be due to one or more of several things.  First, it may be due to a simple lack of interest.  The next reason I consider is that this person may have a lot going on.  It is a possibility (however unlikely), that I may have offended this person.  Further the receipient of my query may just figure that I am just too dumb to talk to (very likely).  It may also be that I don't have a photo on my profile; nor do I send one unless asked to do so (I do not want to scare people).  I have not considered a lack of communication to be a lesson; however, in my case I may just be too stupid to understand that kind of lesson anyway.

Respectfully,  Mike
SnowRanger


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RE: A test, and/or a lesson - 6/10/2008 3:51:20 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		As for why people do lessons so often in kink dynamics- They crave approval, gold stars, they crave good girls, they crave discrete micro tasks they can distract from real life and feel proud of.

As for tests- people are insecure, and they want to hold onto the idea that the person they have judged to be with is somehow decent and not really a big lame dork who would do such a thoughtless things on purpose.  So they make it "a test" and suddenly the world is calm.

I don't do tests, I don't associated with those who push for them.

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RE: A test, and/or a lesson - 6/10/2008 4:40:43 PM   
agoodgirl4Daddy


Posts: 336
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline 		The only TEST i willingly take any more is one that will let me keep my driver's license.

And yeah..i think that when people in kink and in the nilla world "test" their partner(s), they have really missed the mark of being HONEST and communicating their needs and desires EXPLICITLY.  If i have to "test" my partner, i obviously don't TRUST him or her. 

Without the all-important T-word, any "test" of a relationship is likely to score a D-minus at best.

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RE: A test, and/or a lesson - 6/10/2008 6:33:20 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		if people are 'testing'... its the same as game playing in my mind and its really an awful way to be in a relationship, no matter the dynamics...

I wonder when people say that, if they really believe that would be a good reason to act like a jerk.

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RE: A test, and/or a lesson - 6/10/2008 7:27:45 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		To no one in particular, I think I feel it is part of a game.  "You will do this because you love me.  You will do this to prove your devotion.  If you don't accept this you are not ________" <-insert label there. 
And yes, maybe there is a bit of gold star seeking on the submissives part. 
It just seems like if you are using two fallacies to prove something, you really aren't getting anything but illusion.
It perplexes me when people accept these things as natural.
Kyst



_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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RE: A test, and/or a lesson - 6/10/2008 8:19:17 PM   
MsMillgrove


Posts: 260
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline 		OP said, "Are people so deep they plan 'lessons' for your betterment?" 
I do.  I plan lessons for betterment.
I set goals for the subs, write plans, keep records.  No I was never a teacher
but I value the concept and possibilities of growth for both involved in d/s. 
To identify areas of growth together, plan and execute lessons, review and revise, prepare an infequent test helps us evolve our d/s relationship. 
But that's just me.
I agree with OP that often so-called "tests" are just spur of the moment excuses.


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RE: A test, and/or a lesson - 6/12/2008 11:36:04 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Why spur of the moment excuses. Mabey the thought just came to the person.

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RE: A test, and/or a lesson - 6/12/2008 12:32:00 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Are people really so deep that they plan lessons for your betterment?
Yes, in short... and much more than lessons.  I plan a great many things for the betterment of my slave.  I don't know if that makes me deep.  I mostly just see it as doing my job and honoring the trust she's placed in me.

Do I test my slave?
Not in the sense it's meant here.  The moment that I need to command my slave to jump through a flaming hoop so that I can prove to myself that I really own her, then very clearly I do not.   You know how I know I own my slave?  Because last night, when I looked at her, shaken after events from the previous day, and said, "I'm sorry honey, I'm a bit too shaken to be your Master right now."  She brought her leash to me, took my hands and wrapped my fingers around one end of the leash, then took my other hand and brought it to the clasp end saying, "No really, it's easy Master.. see look... you just take this end here and hook it onto my collar here..."   *smiles broadly*   I know I own her because even when I admit to not being able to, she steps in and handles it for me. 

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RE: A test, and/or a lesson - 6/12/2008 1:13:29 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Actually yes some people do actually plan lessons into their relationship as well as into their scenes.
It's been done for many decades outside of whatt we do. Heck Basic Training in the military is all about lessons and adjustment of values. One of the biggest lessons in Basic Training that often gets transfered over to what we do.
Your percieved limits are rarely the actual limits. In basic training it's often about pysical endurance how far can you run, march with what weight for how long or how fast. They prove to you that with mental motivation your percieved limits are far less than what your body is actually capable of. In What we do it's called pushing limits, and tends to be on a much smaller scale.

But there are also other lessons hidden in the play we do, some of themcan be planned, some of them just pop up.

I tell people all the time that successfull SM scenes almost always serve to build trust, the lesson being you can trust me.

Actually I'm giving a class this Sunday on this exact subject, I'll bring back som of the notes and class reactions afterwards.


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RE: A test, and/or a lesson - 6/12/2008 1:26:04 PM   
wwwkevinww


Posts: 276
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline 		Call me silly but I don't like tests and I don't like people thinking they are going to teach me anything.  I don't like salespeople trying to sell me crap I don't need.   I know I have bought crap I don't need!

I have had friends test me, and I usually intentionally fail those tests.  If you need to test our friendship or relationship, then how good is the said friendship or relationship in the first place?  How often am I suppose to expect to be "tested" in the future?  Now I have no friends, or few friends, I'm very removed and distant in emotional attachments.  I have family who love me, and they test me, and I gave them fair warning I was ready to dump them also.....

I'm a master, I teach and test others.  I have had people come to me for advice, and when they followed the advice, their goals were met.  I have my own personal agenda and my own version of right and wrong.  Its my belief that I can teach anyone a thing or two, no matter who they are.  Heck, I am constantly teaching myself new and interesting things.  I know its impossible to completely master yourself, because you cannot be an expert at everything.  I went and bought a guitar and a book on it, but still haven't spent any time learning it, for instance.    Occassionally I'll look at my guitar and dream about treating it like a harp or violin, because I like to think "outside the box".  A person could try to tell me they were an expert guitar player, and I could devise tests that would show this to be completely false.  Am I less of a guitar player if I make a computer play the music I write?
Am I less of a master if I like pudding pops?

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RE: A test, and/or a lesson - 6/12/2008 1:40:41 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Retards will rationalize anything to be right about doing wrong.

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RE: A test, and/or a lesson - 6/12/2008 3:18:27 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Please post something about your class when you finish it.
I am most curious about lessons and what it is that people are trying to convey.
Particularly the hidden lessons.
As far as play goes, people generally have some sort of internal limit in place.  That may change with their partner, the time of the month, the mental headspace of either partner. 
I, for instance, am a masochist.  I can play soft or hard and have a substantial reaction either way.  When men tell me they will stretch my limits, I ask them to what end?  One.. they have no idea where my line is, and I have no idea what I will tolerate from them.  And two, maybe I am already enough of a masochist and don't really want to have that expanded.  Heck.. I am a cutter, LOL I sure do not want that expanded upon. 
The idea of lessons has always intrigued me because I am a perpetual student.  And my curious mind is constantly trying to find reasons why people do things.  Lessons as far as relationships go has always puzzled me, though I can see the idea of using it to expand into deeper sensual ground.  Tests however, will always seem like games to me.
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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RE: A test, and/or a lesson - 6/12/2008 3:21:28 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Usually I think it comes from the 'dom' being unable to admit they did wrong, apologize and take steps to rebuild trust. So they claim that it's a test of submissiveness. Personally if I were presented with that, I'd tell him he had failed my test of possessing good relationship skills.

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RE: A test, and/or a lesson - 6/12/2008 7:15:43 PM   
abcbsex


Posts: 478
Joined: 3/29/2008
Status: offline 		A test should always be announced before it commences, unless a Dom really does get pleasure out of a panic-stricken sub. Hell, I had a vanilla boyfriend who thought he could play the "test our love" thing long distance, and without telling me anything, stopped calling or answering communication from me. I ended up having to call his mom, who checked on him and told me he had been playing WoW all week. He pulled the "test" excuse and I was not a happy camper for a while.

I can imagine a healthy way of going about it would be the Dom saying, "Alright, I think our relationship is strong enough that it can withstand some time with no communication. I'd like you to do your best to make it through a week". That would be better than disappearing for a convenient amount of time (say, a holiday with the family or the wife's anniversary) and returning to say "oh, I was just testing you"

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I was trained at MasterLordDarkness' Center for Subs Who Don't Serve Good and Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too.....

but it needed to be at least.... four times bigger.


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