RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (Full Version)

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slvemike4u -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 7:37:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

mike...you know it isn't just her profile you want to perv....[sm=lol.gif]  pssst, she is around somewhere, if you speak en francais, she will find you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

agreed mike. Especially about McBush...or as the lovely kittin calls him, "Fries" lol...[8D]
couldn't agree more as to Kittin ,i have an internal battle every time I see her on these posts...I want to jump right off and perv her profile[sm=dancer.gif]

Aynne You are of course right as to my intentions,as to speaking French I have some sort of dificiency or defect preventing me from learning a second language.Not kidding three years in high school spanish and still no habla.....I passed butdidn't learn shit....do you think kittin will hold it against me     [sm=book.gif]




celticlord2112 -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 7:39:06 PM)

quote:

do you think kittin will hold it against me

If you're lucky.  Or she might hold something else against you.  No telling.




Aynne -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 7:39:16 PM)

nope. She is far too sweet. But you already knew that didn't you darling? [:)]




Alumbrado -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 7:42:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

Is sarcasm lost on you? Or do you take it only when it behooves you?



You've been too busy tapdancing to read, I see.




kittinSol -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 7:50:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

do you think kittin will hold it against me

If you're lucky.  Or she might hold something else against you.  No telling.



That is the ord... nevermind [:D] .





slvemike4u -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 7:50:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Are you implying that all of the other members that voted on the same resolution based on the lies Bush told them are equally to blame for the mastermind behind the war? They should all be imprisoned for voting based on inaccuracies concocted by shrub to occupy Iraq?

Alumbrado may imply it.  I will state it plainly.

The intelligence Bush used was available to Congress.  Members of Congress had not only the opportunity but also the duty to perform their own due diligence on these matters, to scrutinize Bush's conclusions with an independent eye. 

If they did in fact do so, and still voted for the resolution, it is hypocritical to assert at this latter date that Bush lied, deceived, and misled them.  In such a case, Bush cannot be deserving of impeachment.

If they did not do so, then all such members of Congress are guilty of gross negligence and dereliction of duty, and are equally culpable for all lives lost unnecessarily in Iraq.  If Bush merits impeachment, every member of Congress authorizing the resolution merits the same.

Iraq was an abysmal mistake, and it was the mistake of the entire US government.  President and Congress have equally bloody paws on this one.

Difficult to perform your due diligence with your head up your ass not to mention which members had their forward looking eye on the Oval Office.Who amongst them wanted to draw the ultimate Karl Rove un-patriotic attack.To pretend any sustained resistance to the drum beat of war wouldn't have drawn the ire of Bush and  co. is naive...having said all that a dereliction of duty over an issue has momentous as war is unconsionable no matter the politicle risk




celticlord2112 -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 7:52:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

do you think kittin will hold it against me

If you're lucky.  Or she might hold something else against you.  No telling.



That is the ord... nevermind [:D] .



Now, kittin, I said NO TELLING......

geesh!  (you're gonna give slvemike4u a complex)[8D]




Aynne -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 8:06:27 PM)

I don't tapdance. Bush, the potus, not congress, not the american people he lied to, but Bush, the commander in chief, the guy in charge , the "decider" ( jesus christ did that donkey really call himself that? ) he and he alone should be held responsible for starting and continuing this war. Congress sucks for not ending it, and for not impeaching him, but he is the catalyst, is he not?   




celticlord2112 -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 8:10:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

I don't tapdance. Bush, the potus, not congress, not the american people he lied to, but Bush, the commander in chief, the guy in charge , the "decider" ( jesus christ did that donkey really call himself that? ) he and he alone should be held responsible for starting and continuing this war. Congress sucks for not ending it, and for not impeaching him, but he is the catalyst, is he not?   

The Constution says the President is not the decider on when to go to war, the Congress is.

Congress gave Bush a blank check and now they want to claim he forged their signature?  Which is worse, a damned liar (Bush), or a room full of gutless, spineless, damned liars (Congress)?




kittinSol -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 8:17:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Which is worse, a damned liar (Bush), or a room full of gutless, spineless, damned liars (Congress)?



I say, make Bush take the blame for everything. He's an ideal scapegoat, and it will be the source of much international amusement. The United States need to reestablish some semblance of standing in the world: holding Baby Bush by the gonads will do just that [8D] .




Alumbrado -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 8:20:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

I don't tapdance. Bush, the potus, not congress, not the american people he lied to, but Bush, the commander in chief, the guy in charge , the "decider" ( jesus christ did that donkey really call himself that? ) he and he alone should be held responsible for starting and continuing this war. Congress sucks for not ending it, and for not impeaching him, but he is the catalyst, is he not?   


You might want to check a civics book...the President can't start anything, and the people can't start anything.  Congress knew what the facts were, and what was just saber rattling hype, and freely voted to feather their nests.

They should all go on trial, not just the one's you don't like. 




Aynne -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 8:22:36 PM)

I like kittin's idea about bouncing baby bush by the balls better. Now..say that three times fast. Night all, this chick is tired. I am sure we will have loads to disagree on tomorrow. *smack*[;)]




kittinSol -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 8:25:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

about bouncing baby bush by the balls better



The alliteration was pure genius [8D] .




celticlord2112 -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 8:27:16 PM)

quote:

I say, make Bush take the blame for everything.

I say we blame Canada.




slvemike4u -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 8:28:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittin sol

[/quote)

I say, make Bush take the blame for everything. He's an ideal scapegoat, and it will be the source of much international amusement. The United States need to reestablish some semblance of standing in the world: holding Baby Bush by the gonads will do just that [8D] .
Not nearly close dear kittin.Not even in the ballpark.does not begin to redeem the lost prestige this country has suffered during the long tedious Presidency of Bush1's dumbest son...This is now the country that tries to codify and debate the relative amounts of torture allowed ...We used to be in some eyes the light of the world now we try to decide how far we can go and by the way once we go too far aren't we them




kittinSol -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 8:31:39 PM)

I know, mike, but a girl can dream... it's a charming fantasy, if nothing else.




slvemike4u -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 8:40:21 PM)

Lovely Lady if you want to discuss fantasy's could we go someplace more private....




rulemylife -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 9:06:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Are you implying that all of the other members that voted on the same resolution based on the lies Bush told them are equally to blame for the mastermind behind the war? They should all be imprisoned for voting based on inaccuracies concocted by shrub to occupy Iraq?

Alumbrado may imply it.  I will state it plainly.

The intelligence Bush used was available to Congress.  Members of Congress had not only the opportunity but also the duty to perform their own due diligence on these matters, to scrutinize Bush's conclusions with an independent eye. 

If they did in fact do so, and still voted for the resolution, it is hypocritical to assert at this latter date that Bush lied, deceived, and misled them.  In such a case, Bush cannot be deserving of impeachment.

If they did not do so, then all such members of Congress are guilty of gross negligence and dereliction of duty, and are equally culpable for all lives lost unnecessarily in Iraq.  If Bush merits impeachment, every member of Congress authorizing the resolution merits the same.

Iraq was an abysmal mistake, and it was the mistake of the entire US government.  President and Congress have equally bloody paws on this one.



That's not true and I think you know it's not.  Individual members of Congress do not have access to the military intelligence the President has nor do they have the same access as a body.  They were fed the same lies as the rest of us.

Should they have done more to investigate the administration's claims?  Of course.  This was still post-9/11 hysteria though and the country, as a whole, was willing to believe whatever the administration said. 

That doesn't alter the fact the administration cynically used that national mood to further its own agenda through lies and distortion.  I could list many examples of that but the one that always comes to mind is Rumsfeld saying that they knew Saddam had WMD's, they knew where they were, and they were going to get them.

Well, there were no WMD's, so obviously saying they knew where they were was a blatant lie.  

If we can spend 80 million dollars to impeach Bubba because he lied about getting some head  how can you seriously argue that Bush should be given a free pass?  





Griswold -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 9:21:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PanthersMom

the man is an embarassment!  he's got to make himself seem more important than he really is.
PM


I (respectfully) disagree.

He's an unusually interesting man, with an incredible amount of knowledge and insight, who appears to be consistantly venting his opinions against the common fray.

I don't think that makes him an embarrassment.

He was elected several times to office, by a fairly well educated electorate.  A dimintive man, he was ridiculed in the press...largely, let's all admit it....because he was small....that's really what happened to the guy...he's physically tiny. No one ever said it in the press, but the fact is...no one, individuals or the press, could imagine someone of his size....ruling "The Free World".

That's honestly what happened to the guy.

I'm actually amazed at his testicular fortitude.

His recent activities, while certainly not likely to gain him any favor in the current Congress, are almost equally certain to gain him disfavor with any number of contemporary White House residents.

I like the guy.

(Don't know if I'd have voted for him....can't say for sure....but I like him).





celticlord2112 -> RE: Kucinich offers impeachment papers (6/10/2008 10:53:52 PM)

quote:

That's not true and I think you know it's not. Individual members of Congress do not have access to the military intelligence the President has nor do they have the same access as a body. They were fed the same lies as the rest of us.

Members of Congress receive a National Intelligence Estimate, produced by the Director of National Intelligence

According to the report of the Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction delievered 31 March 2005, in actual fact the NIE delivered to Congress might have shed a different light on the Iraqi situation:
quote:

As problematic as the October 2002 NIE was, it was not the Community’s
biggest analytic failure on Iraq. Even more misleading was the river of intelligence
that flowed from the CIA to top policymakers over long periods of
time—in the President’s Daily Brief (PDB) and in its more widely distributed
companion, the Senior Executive Intelligence Brief (SEIB). These
daily reports were, if anything, more alarmist and less nuanced than the
NIE.
It was not that the intelligence was markedly different. Rather, it was
that the PDBs and SEIBs, with their attention-grabbing headlines and drumbeat
of repetition, left an impression of many corroborating reports where in
fact there were very few sources. And in other instances, intelligence suggesting
the existence of weapons programs was conveyed to senior policymakers,
but later information casting doubt upon the validity of that
intelligence was not. In ways both subtle and not so subtle, the daily reports
seemed to be “selling” intelligence—in order to keep its customers, or at
least the First Customer, interested.

By some accounts from congressional aides, a whopping 6 senators actually read the NIE before voting on Iraq.

The information was delivered to Congress, independent of the President.  The opportunity was there for them to reach their own conclusions about the necessity and urgency of action in Iraq.  If they read the NIE and reached the same conclusion as Bush, then the claim that Bush lied is pure unadulterated political bullshit.  If they didn't read the NIE and just swallowed Bush's version of things, they were negligent and derelict in their duty.

Either way, Congress is a full equal partner in the burden of blame on the fuckup known as Iraq.  Of course they want to blame Bush.  So much easier when the blood is on someone else's hands.  Pity this blood won't wash off--not off Bush's hands, not of Congress' hands.  They are all guilty. 

Impeach one?  Hell, hang 'em all!




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