RE: The reality of fantasy...

RE: The reality of fantasy... (Full Version)

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SimplyMichael -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/12/2008 9:54:07 AM)
quote: The "identified problem" is not necessarily always the "real" problem. Damn woman, that was GOOD!

Quin -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/12/2008 10:00:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick OP, if you had all the answers you wouldn't be here. Instead of telling me that my impressions are wrong, perhaps you could think about it some more and see how my impression is possible. The "identified problem" is not necessarily always the "real" problem. Cali Actually, I would, and am. I thought it might be a good topic for discussion, learning, and teaching...as most, I thought, were here to continue to learn and grow. As for the impression, well, perhaps you could explain why you get that impression, as I don't understand how you did, and maybe you could think about how you might actually be wrong to assume that I want to know more than what I asked.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/12/2008 10:02:05 AM)
I keep coming back to the fact that this happened in her house... I wonder just how safe she feels now, and if she is transferring this idea into something that could have happened for real. There's more happening than we can see, Cali nailed it completely.

Quin -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/12/2008 10:30:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus I keep coming back to the fact that this happened in her house... I wonder just how safe she feels now, and if she is transferring this idea into something that could have happened for real. There's more happening than we can see, Cali nailed it completely. No, YOU just nailed it. Cali keeps saying that she's over-reacting. I don't think she is. I think this made her feel a little less safe in her home and is feeling like "if he could do it, why couldn't someone else". I think, given where she lives, her fears are reasonable...and I'm dealing with that. I don't like the fact that I made her feel unsafe with me. I just wanted to know, from others who've been through similar scenes, what their aftermath was like and what they've done to deal with it.

CalifChick -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/12/2008 11:58:39 AM)
I don't think you're really going to hear me no matter what I say, but I'll give it one more shot. Feeling unsafe in her own home because of what SOMEONE ELSE might do is no reason to feel unsafe with YOU. There is a huge leap going on from one to the other, particularly when you throw in the whole "darker side" nonsense. If I tell you I want you to slap me, I think it would be hot if you slapped me, go on please, oh god yes, please, slap me... SLAP... then I have no right nor rational reason to say: OH MY GOD! How could you slap me? I don't feel safe with you anymore! How could you do that to me??? You must have this deep dark side I never knew existed! Cali

Domin8tingUrDrmz -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/12/2008 11:59:39 AM)
I haven't done a rape scene, I was raped. What I think might be going on is her fear of her own darker side, not yours. She might be trying to work out whether or not the part of her that enjoyed it was more/less than the part that scared her. She might be worried that if someone else rapes her, that she could find it hot, in lieu of her own safety. I think it might help you work through this more by asking her to reveal what is in the darker corners of her own mind and sharing them with you. Maybe then she can begin to trust you again when she realizes that you are supporting her and not planning on hurting her further. After being raped myself, I had a lot of strange thoughts go through my head that scared the living shit out of me. It took me a few years to accept those parts of myself and move on. Some people recover quickly, others take more time. But, having a good support network in place, and an outlet for venting, is better than suffering it alone. Really, the only thing you can continue to do, is talk with her, openly, and be there for her when she wants to cry, or scream, or kick your ass. Yes, she is just as responsible for this happening as you are, and that might be the hard part for her to accept. She needs to accept that.

SimplyMichael -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/12/2008 12:24:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz I haven't done a rape scene, I was raped. What I think might be going on is her fear of her own darker side, not yours. She might be trying to work out whether or not the part of her that enjoyed it was more/less than the part that scared her. She might be worried that if someone else rapes her, that she could find it hot, in lieu of her own safety. I think it might help you work through this more by asking her to reveal what is in the darker corners of her own mind and sharing them with you. Maybe then she can begin to trust you again when she realizes that you are supporting her and not planning on hurting her further. After being raped myself, I had a lot of strange thoughts go through my head that scared the living shit out of me. It took me a few years to accept those parts of myself and move on. Some people recover quickly, others take more time. But, having a good support network in place, and an outlet for venting, is better than suffering it alone. Really, the only thing you can continue to do, is talk with her, openly, and be there for her when she wants to cry, or scream, or kick your ass. Yes, she is just as responsible for this happening as you are, and that might be the hard part for her to accept. She needs to accept that. DAMN! That was good...

SEGAworkman -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/12/2008 1:51:14 PM)
In addition to agreement with much of the stuff posted, I would like to say the same rape event worked very well for me and a sub - INCLUDING when we hit a big rough patch as everyone is discussing... real tears, bad memories, blankout, etc. The sub just dealt better with it, I guess, and after 6 hours kinda snapped back out of it and wanted more. I had said clearly in advance that I had the right when and how I wanted, the person came to me for that reason when the general consent was given, and after that - well, we got some serious work done on both our accounts. I am just sorry it does not work that well all the time, and read this as a caution to be circumspect in what I do, with whom, and how I prepare for it.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/12/2008 3:11:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick I don't think you're really going to hear me no matter what I say, but I'll give it one more shot. Feeling unsafe in her own home because of what SOMEONE ELSE might do is no reason to feel unsafe with YOU. There is a huge leap going on from one to the other, particularly when you throw in the whole "darker side" nonsense. If I tell you I want you to slap me, I think it would be hot if you slapped me, go on please, oh god yes, please, slap me... SLAP... then I have no right nor rational reason to say: OH MY GOD! How could you slap me? I don't feel safe with you anymore! How could you do that to me??? You must have this deep dark side I never knew existed! Cali I think you're kicking ass. I know my partner loves when he'll start to hurt me and I'll make these surprise sounds and give him dirty looks- like I'm shocked it's actually HURTING.

BossyShoeBitch -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/12/2008 3:41:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick I don't think you're really going to hear me no matter what I say, but I'll give it one more shot. Feeling unsafe in her own home because of what SOMEONE ELSE might do is no reason to feel unsafe with YOU. There is a huge leap going on from one to the other, particularly when you throw in the whole "darker side" nonsense. If I tell you I want you to slap me, I think it would be hot if you slapped me, go on please, oh god yes, please, slap me... SLAP... then I have no right nor rational reason to say: OH MY GOD! How could you slap me? I don't feel safe with you anymore! How could you do that to me??? You must have this deep dark side I never knew existed! Cali I think you're kicking ass. I know my partner loves when he'll start to hurt me and I'll make these surprise sounds and give him dirty looks- like I'm shocked it's actually HURTING. (Temporary hijack and with complete sincerity cuz everyone knows I think LA ROCKS!) yay for Cali! Doesn't it feel like you just got a gold star from the teacher? [sm=hyper.gif]

CalifChick -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/12/2008 3:51:08 PM)
Fuck yes it does! [sm=banana.gif] I don't always agree with LA (shocker, I know!), but she almost always helps me appreciate a different way of looking at things. Cali

Kalista07 -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/12/2008 5:29:10 PM)
i've read all of the replies, and i must tell You Quin, i don't think You are really hearing what people are trying to tell You.... Here's the reality for me: Nearly a year ago i was raped, beaten, and assualted. The thoughts i had of myself, of him, of human kind before, during, and after were probably the most difficult things for me to come to terms with. Earlier this week, He and i began implementing some of the D/s dynamics we had been missing. i can not tell You how shocked, appalled, and frightened i was when He started to whip me... Not because i was afraid that He had some hidden, darker side.. But, because it took everything in my body to keep me on my knees and not to whip that freaking whip out of his hands and beat the living hell out of Him with it... Fortunately for me, we talked about it afterwards and He laughed... The point i'm attempting to make is i thought that scene with Him would've been hot and i was in no way prepared for my emotional or intellectual reaction.... Was there a point where i was scared? Hell yeah!!! That does not give me the right or the allowance to begin attempting to manipulate Him or His behavior by my fears... Additionally, i may be waaaayyy out of line here, but it occurs to me that You've inferred she's going to be moving in with You soon. Any way this is just her fear coming out in a more acceptable way? just my random thoughts, Kali

kiwisub12 -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/12/2008 5:59:25 PM)
I understand her issue with fear living alone. When you live by yourself there is no-one else around as backup if the shit hits the fan. You have to cope with it all by yourself, even if you don't feel up to it, or capable of dealing with it. There is no support system right there. I have heard of people talk about how violated and afraid they were when their houses were burgled. They aren't in any physical danger, but emotionally, its a different matter. In a way this is similar. In her place of safety and comfort she has been confronted by fear and uncertainty. I lived with my um's by myself for 10 years and there were times when i would have given anything to have another adult present to take some of the responsibility. I think she has to have time to let the event grow distant. She isn't silly or dramatic - she sounds like she is communicating really well, and i think it is lovely that you are actually listening to her. Just keep doing so. The more she talks the more her brain processes what happened and how she felt, and the more she will regain her sense of safety.

SirDominic -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/12/2008 6:02:33 PM)
quote: The point i'm attempting to make is i thought that scene with Him would've been hot and i was in no way prepared for my emotional or intellectual reaction.... This is it in a nutshell. One always has to be prepared for something to unexpectedly go wrong. A Dom needs to know how to defuse a situation that has suddenly gone sour, because it can come up at any time, and for the least of reasons. Quin, in my opinion the only thing you did wrong was in not dealing with the trauma immediately. Should'a called the in-laws and just said you were going to be late, as the two of you needed to talk through this right then. In my opinion, when something goes wrong, there is nothing more important than dealing with it immediately. Everything else becomes secondary.

Quin -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/13/2008 8:03:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick I don't think you're really going to hear me no matter what I say, but I'll give it one more shot. Feeling unsafe in her own home because of what SOMEONE ELSE might do is no reason to feel unsafe with YOU. There is a huge leap going on from one to the other, particularly when you throw in the whole "darker side" nonsense. If I tell you I want you to slap me, I think it would be hot if you slapped me, go on please, oh god yes, please, slap me... SLAP... then I have no right nor rational reason to say: OH MY GOD! How could you slap me? I don't feel safe with you anymore! How could you do that to me??? You must have this deep dark side I never knew existed! Cali Ok, now I understand. Much of what's going on is my own fault. Appearently I've given the wrong impression. Most of the "darker side" thing was just that day, and is rooted, not in the scene it's self, but in the timing of such. She's told me that it's not the scene that she has the problem with, it's that it was done when she needed to be getting changed from work to go over her mothers house for dinner and family would see that she'd beed crying and in a panic and didn't want me to be thought poorly of. I'm probably still not putting it properly. I do agree that, no, she has no right to blame me for doing what she asked for (which she's not). She just can't believe that I chose 30 minutes before a mass family dinner to do it (which WAS stupid and short-sighted on my part). She does want to do it again...just not 30 minutes before a family holiday dinner. Sorry for the disconnect and lack of clarity on my part.

Quin -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/13/2008 8:10:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 Additionally, i may be waaaayyy out of line here, but it occurs to me that You've inferred she's going to be moving in with You soon. Any way this is just her fear coming out in a more acceptable way? just my random thoughts, Kali I don't quite understand the question. I am moving in with her in august (after I take my daugher back to her mother). We are engaged and she was officially collared at an event last month. Not an inference...fully discussed, planned, and some moving has already begun.

KnightofMists -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/13/2008 5:50:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross What pre care would you have suggested then? Three years together, clear desire expressed to do this scene, done in the privacy of the house. Would you claim to have a better record over all your years and NO bad scenes or fuck ups due to something no one could have reasonably forseen? One of the big mistakes people seem to make when they started to push on emotionally/mentally edgy play is focusing discussion on just the play itself. Problem is... when people talk about a hot fantasy... it's exactly that... a hot fantasy and all the issues and problems are looked at through those rose coloured glasses. It actually is just as if not more important to appreciate a person's negative buttons in general. IE... from the little I read here... it seems have a fear of safety in the bronx... mmmmmm so lets do a scene that is going to make her feel vulnerable in the bronx.. yeah that is really smart.... for me this is easily forseeable and maybe she need to feel safe first in her envirornment instead of making her feel even more unsafe.. ... I have to wonder what other issues exist as well.. what other issues exist... maybe Calif hit something about her being afraid of her own dark side... Sad point.. He done things for the thrill of scene that both wanted.... and it back fired because there wasn't enough concern about the issues beyond this hot scene..... now he has more work ahead of him. Claiming a desire to have scene is NOT a get out of jail free card OR a blank check to cash at will and how long people are togther doesn't mean they have any better or worse quality communication than some that has been together for 3 weeks. and yes.. I do claim to have a better record! I have never had someone I play with ever have less trust for me after I played them as compared to before.. in fact.. I have had the opposite... More trust!

LadyHibiscus -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/13/2008 6:00:58 PM)
Thanks for liking what I said, but I am in the Cali camp!! Not that I think your friend is overreacting to the scene, but that she is overreacting to YOU.

KnightofMists -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/13/2008 6:12:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick Feeling unsafe in her own home because of what SOMEONE ELSE might do is no reason to feel unsafe with YOU. There is a huge leap going on from one to the other, particularly when you throw in the whole "darker side" nonsense. True.... However, If she was holding on to an unidentified fear of being vulnerable in her own home... the scene will cause her to project this fear to him because he will have triggered that fear. Secondly, the scene could very well make her feel even more vulnerable in her own home. Not far to him... but alot intense emotional reactions are rather irrational. If the fear of her feeling vulnerable in her own home.. then not only will the scene feed the feeling of feeling vulnerable... but he will rationally be seen to increase that fear... sucks to be him. But then there is also the timing of the scene itself. An intense scene that can have intense emotional feelings and then she has to but it all together in 30 minutes for mom and dad. I have to wonder is lost trust in his judgement of timing is not part of the issue. I agree with you that the identified problem is not the real problem... but I will also add that A problem/issue is not always singular in nature... but a multiple issues that are feeding the expressed thoughts and feelings. I think this a case of alot of stones making this mountain

xxblushesxx -> RE: The reality of fantasy... (6/13/2008 6:22:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Quin quote: ORIGINAL: CalifChick I don't think you're really going to hear me no matter what I say, but I'll give it one more shot. Feeling unsafe in her own home because of what SOMEONE ELSE might do is no reason to feel unsafe with YOU. There is a huge leap going on from one to the other, particularly when you throw in the whole "darker side" nonsense. If I tell you I want you to slap me, I think it would be hot if you slapped me, go on please, oh god yes, please, slap me... SLAP... then I have no right nor rational reason to say: OH MY GOD! How could you slap me? I don't feel safe with you anymore! How could you do that to me??? You must have this deep dark side I never knew existed! Cali Ok, now I understand. Much of what's going on is my own fault. Appearently I've given the wrong impression. Most of the "darker side" thing was just that day, and is rooted, not in the scene it's self, but in the timing of such. She's told me that it's not the scene that she has the problem with, it's that it was done when she needed to be getting changed from work to go over her mothers house for dinner and family would see that she'd beed crying and in a panic and didn't want me to be thought poorly of. I'm probably still not putting it properly. I do agree that, no, she has no right to blame me for doing what she asked for (which she's not). She just can't believe that I chose 30 minutes before a mass family dinner to do it (which WAS stupid and short-sighted on my part). She does want to do it again...just not 30 minutes before a family holiday dinner. Sorry for the disconnect and lack of clarity on my part. doh! [sm=Groaner.gif] If that would have been made more clear in the original posts your answers would have been much different.

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